Currents of Space

[chornedsnorkack]

Who of you is familiar with Currents of Space?
Would you like my comments on the holes I find in plot/descriptions?

 

[Andy Mender]

I read all of the Galactic Empire series books from Isaac Asimov and would for sure be interested in musings regarding The Currents of Space . What have you found out?

 

[chornedsnorkack]

Well, there are several examples of Asimov's (and not only his) chronic lack of sense of scale.
But starting with smaller stuff I'd do differently on Florina:
The Upper City is built on a ferroconcrete plate, resting on steel lattice pillars.
Technically feasible... but also technically stupid. Can you spot why?
Concrete is good in compression.
In contrast to the plate and beams carrying it, the pillars are in nearly pure compression.
The technically more efficient approach would be to make the pillars ferroconcrete.
Consider the description of the Upper City:
50 square miles, meaning 13000 ha (Minus the lightwells, but these are minority).
And strikingly, mostly a stone city with no plants. The City Park, of 100 acres (40 ha) is unmistakable - but popular.
The population is specified as 10 000 squires, plus 1020 patrols. The 10 000 squires are later on specified as 10 000 men, women and children.
The lack of sense of scale for urban population density is actually familiar from Trantor, since Dead Hand...

 

[Andy Mender]

I am actually surprised the numbers were given so precisely. Does it affect the plot in any way in your opinion or are the numbers provided only to give us, the readers an idea about the proportions of the Upper City? I can imagine Asimov not being an expert in city planning and I don't feel it's mandatory to enjoy the novel, however it does strike me as odd. I remember the urban descriptions in The Caves of Steel being rather complete, but not as precise.

Very good points!

 

[psikeyhackr]

I know I've read it but may have been more than 20 years. I recall liking it but not the plot. Poke all of the holes you want, maybe it will fill some of mine.

 

[chornedsnorkack]

I am actually surprised the numbers were given so precisely. Does it affect the plot in any way in your opinion or are the numbers provided only to give us, the readers an idea about the proportions of the Upper City?

A place where numbers do affect the plot...
A resistance/Trantor agent points out how weak Sarkites are. Just 10 000 squires - as above, later specified as men, women and children - and 1020 patrolmen.
Guarding Florinan population of 500 millions.
That stretches credibility, in certain specific ways. Care to note how?

 

[scarpelius]

If you have to be precise when writing, it will not be literature it will be technical documentation. You might say it is easy to know that the concrete is good on compression, everyone know that. But everyone know that due to Discovery tv show (or similar). When Asimov wrote that story access to information was done mainly by reading books, Wikipedia with is wealth of knowledge and quick access was just SF.
As for the low number of upper ruling class and the the ridiculous 1020 patrolmen. This is not a plot hole, this is reality. A prison extends beyond its physical limits. If you were born in a totalitarian society, you will learn from birth that certain things are beyond your access. Like going in the upper city. Like rebelling against rulers. You rather turn against your kind for a small privilege which pops you out of the crowd. That's the prison inside your head.

 

[chornedsnorkack]

As for the low number of upper ruling class and the the ridiculous 1020 patrolmen. This is not a plot hole, this is reality. A prison extends beyond its physical limits. If you were born in a totalitarian society, you will learn from birth that certain things are beyond your access. Like going in the upper city. Like rebelling against rulers. You rather turn against your kind for a small privilege which pops you out of the crowd. That's the prison inside your head.

No.
I don´t mean the daunting deterrence of direct rebellion.
I mean the impracticality of imposing so much with so little.

We hear that Sark imposes curfew on Florina, and that the valuable privileges of Townmen include being exempt from it.
We hear that Valona March actually feels afraid of Patrolmen when violating curfew to visit Townman at night.

Why?
That´s not the question of Florinans defying guns in face - a suggestion which Terens addresses and disapproves. Rather, simply Florinans doing as they please when Squires and Patrols are too few and far between to see.

Just think of it. 2 policemen watching a million Florinans. Being out at night may be officially forbidden. But if it is 2 patrolmen and a million Florinans, and the punishment is not even summary execution (Townmen are exempt, there are likely other excuses...) then the biggest dangers of being out at night would not be meeting a Patrol. Things like a lightning strike, or stumbling in unlit streets and hitting head against hard ground, would be the more probable hazards.
They might use the 100 000 Townmen to help actual enforcement of curfew. Or other native collaborators. Sark would need a million police on Florina to actually make the curfew feared, not a thousand. But we don´t hear of such mass forces.

 

[scarpelius]

I get what are you saying. Looking from your perspective as a person born and raised in a free world it make sense. To enforce the law you need to display the force on streets. But in a totalitarian society you don't need to do that. You can just tell people "Don't go in the night outside because the patrols will catch you and you are going to be punished." And people will obey, because that is what they were doing all their life: listening to their superiors.
If you are told all your life what to do, what to think, what not to do, then the prison don't need to be physical. Is in your head. It will populate the night streets with patrolmen, even if they don't exists. Only a great emotion will be powerful enough to break free from this prison. And the regime is smart enough to plan for you a dull and emotionless life. Wake up, go to work, do a bit o socializing after work in an orderly manner and then go to sleep. Rinse and repeat until you die.
Now, as someone who lived in such a regime, I can tell you that is not going to happen. But then again, Asimov's book is a work of fiction and such the rules of his world are crafted to serve the story and not to be bullet proof and emulate the reality. For me the logical fallacies you found does not break the story.

 

[chornedsnorkack]

I get what are you saying. Looking from your perspective as a person born and raised in a free world it make sense. To enforce the law you need to display the force on streets. But in a totalitarian society you don't need to do that. You can just tell people "Don't go in the night outside because the patrols will catch you and you are going to be punished." And people will obey, because that is what they were doing all their life: listening to their superiors.
If you are told all your life what to do, what to think, what not to do, then the prison don't need to be physical. Is in your head. It will populate the night streets with patrolmen, even if they don't exists.

With the huts of Florina expressly not having window glasses, because in the warm climate eaves keep out rain and the wind is too warm to be kept out... anyone´s experience of sleepless nights would confirm absence of sounds other than neighbours having sex. Specifically, the sound of a patrol car... 1 patrol and 200 towns to patrol. They have days to work, too. How many years before a patrol car does show up at night to check on observance of curfew? And anyone (most) who sleep soundly would hear it in the morning from those who were sleepless but stayed obediently indoors. After all, it is newsworthy.

Even supervising the 100 000 Townmen is not done well.
We hear how the Squires inspect Townmen. 1 or 2 visits in 6 months. The visiting squire does not talk to the Townman, and Townman does not hear the name of the Squire.

Even given the workforce constraints - probably 30 or more Townmen for a single Squire to supervise - that's not an efficient way to perform the supervision.
There might be Florinan supervisors between Townmen and Squires - but we never hear of any.

Not implausible by itself - but has implications elsewhere.