What other periods of historical fantasy would you read?

Templarorder123

Templarorder123

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So on the other day, I was talking to an author who's doing some Roman style fantasy. He agreed with me that there is a long over-due era in which the medieval era is getting stale.

Do you agree with this? I'm not saying remove the Medieval setting, keep it but show other historical civilizations in fantasy races, but it would be nice to read some exotic fantasy - Say like Medieval Japan, Medieval China etc.

How about reading some fantasy that is based on the Hellenistic Empires and Roman Empires? Fantasy Persian Empire against a fantasy Assyrian empire. But then even when authors do it I get annoyed with all the names - I love looking at the roots of historical civilizations.

Do you want more exoticness as a reader in your fantasy? I mean Total War(PC strategy RTS video game) recently announced a new period in their eras. Three Kingdoms China, set in the glorified civil war of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Lest be said, there were, of course, the usual people with their bias saying that it was a wrong period to choose.

Total War has done Europe more than 9 or 10 times at least. It's time we get something new. Same with fantasy books and their setting.

But it's just my opinion!
 
There is barely any truly mediaeval fantasy - as I keep saying, swords and wenches do not make a setting mediaeval!

Yes, it's good to bring more cultures into fantasy, something done periodically in the past but perhaps becoming more common now. However, the author has to really understand something of those cultures to make them feel real - and that means moving beyond political history and looking more at the social history, not least how ordinary people lived their daily lives.

So, bring it on - but let those authors prove to me they understand that culture means exactly that, and doesn't simply entail putting fancy names on characters who are otherwise nothing more than modern Anglo-Saxons.

Just my thoughts. :)
 
Story and characters rule for me. Setting stands or falls on whether it supports or hinders the rest. That said, considering the requirements and conditions of an exotic setting can be a great inspiration for stories and characters. So, as Brian pretty much said, if it's done well, great! Of course, that applies to just about everyghing, including my dinner, which is almost ready. Bye
 
China in the Three Kingdoms era.

One of the Persian Empires, don't know that much about them so not sure which era would be best.

Just about anything in an African style setting, pre-colonialism. A fantastical version of Great Zimbabwe would be fun.
 
For Persia, the Shahnameh is a great source for stories and characters, as is the the poet Haffez. My problem is it would take a ton of reasearch for me to feel comfortable dealing with the culture and setting. I would have to alter--fantasisfy--it a lot, which seems to destroy the point. Best of luck to anyone else who wants to try, though!
 
There's tons of this around.

For fantasy set in a Chinese-style setting, there's Lian Hearn's Tales of the Otori, Chris Wooding's The Braided Path and Guy Gavriel Kay's Under Heaven and River of Stars.

For a Polynesian setting, there's Garry Kilworth's Navigator Kings trilogy.

For a Persian/Greek setting, there's Paul Kearney's Macht trilogy.

For an Egyptian setting that isn't all about pyramids and pharaohs, there's N.K. Jemisin's Dreamblood duology.

For the Near East, there's Elizabeth Bear's Eternal Sky trilogy (and its new sequel series).

Kate Elliott's Spiritwalker trilogy starts in an ice age-bound Europe before moving to the Caribbean for a rather different flavour of fantasy. Her Crossroads and Black Wolves series are set in a somewhat Asian-influenced world, and her Crown of Stars septology is set in an alternate Europe but a Dark Ages one rather than a traditional High Middle Ages one.

James Barclay's Ascendants of Estorea duology is heavily inspired by the Roman Empire, as is Jim Butcher's Codex Alera series.

If anything, I'd say that traditional medieval fantasy has been very thin on the ground recently. Even when it has shown up, the author usually has some spin on it like setting it in a more technologically advanced period than normal (such as Col Buchanan's Heart of the World series, which borrows from steampunk).

Although his early work was cod-medieval, Joe Abercrombie moved into Westerns with Red Country and Scandinavian fantasy with his Shattered Sea trilogy.

It's also good to see a lot of fantasy authors just throwing out real-world influences altogether and just making absolutely everything up: Steven Erikson's Malazan series, Adrian Tchaikovsky's Shadows of the Apt, Kameron Hurley's Mirror Empire trilogy and Brandon Sanderson's entire Cosmere universe are recent, decent series that take very little from the real world and go for creating their own worlds and cultures.
 
What, the idea of one person being involved in (deep breath) the Indian Mutiny, the Boxer Rebellion, the raid on Harper's Ferry, the sacking of the Summer Palace, the Charge of the Light Brigade, the stand of the Thin Red Line, the battle of the Little Big Horn, the Atlantic Slave Trade and the Underground Railroad, the First Sikh War, the congress of Vienna, the Zulu war, the Expedition to Abyssinia and the 1849 Gold Rush isn't fantasy?
 
I have to agree with those saying that fantasy truly depicting the medieval era is rather rare (and always has been) - but at the same time, its a somewhat pedantic objection when we all know what's meant by medieval fantasy.

Anyhoo, I think there's a lot of similar medieval Japanese/Chinese fantasy. Where I'd like to see some attention put is Mesoamerica, sub-Saharan Africa, south-east Asia, pre-British Empire India and Polynesia.
 
pyan said:
What, the idea of one person being involved in (deep breath) the Indian Mutiny, the Boxer Rebellion, the raid on Harper's Ferry, the sacking of the Summer Palace, the Charge of the Light Brigade, the stand of the Thin Red Line, the battle of the Little Big Horn, the Atlantic Slave Trade and the Underground Railroad, the First Sikh War, the congress of Vienna, the Zulu war, the Expedition to Abyssinia and the 1849 Gold Rush isn't fantasy?
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A single character involved in an unfeasonable number of scenarios might be unrealistic but it does not necessarily mean fantasy. James Bond, for example.
 
To make a historical fantasy attractive, the readers have to be somewhat comfortable with that history. Western readers aren't any more familiar with historic Malaysia than they are a completely fictional place.

Which isn't to say that it shouldn't be done, but that a lot of fantasy works for people because it is chock full of very familiar tropes - including our fake medieval pretense.

Writing a detailed, fantastic story set in a well researched by unfamiliar civilization is more along the lines of what SF writers do.
 
Onyx said:
To make a historical fantasy attractive, the readers have to be somewhat comfortable with that history. Western readers aren't any more familiar with historic Malaysia than they are a completely fictional place.

Which isn't to say that it shouldn't be done, but that a lot of fantasy works for people because it is chock full of very familiar tropes - including our fake medieval pretense.

Writing a detailed, fantastic story set in a well researched by unfamiliar civilization is more along the lines of what SF writers do.
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By "Western", I'm going to take it you mean North America, and Europe, so about 10-15% of the global population. I'd say that leaves plenty of other cultures to delve into. ;)

Tropes get tired, after a while.

I'm sure you're aware there is plenty of demand (from readers) for 'Own Voices' fantasy, where the person is not just researching into an "unfamiliar civilisation", but is a member of that cultural inheritance.

On that note, I'd love to read more Sub-Saharan African fantasy, as per Peat's suggestion, possibly something set in a civilisation such as the Great Zimbabwe. I'd also like to read North American First Nations pre-invasion historical fantasy (or, conversely, futuristic sci-fi), and anything set in the high Himalaya, pre-Raj.

Hell, even something set in a Celtic land, written by someone who had half an inkling about ancient Celtic customs would be nice. But, that setting has been done too often.
 
Abernovo said:
By "Western", I'm going to take it you mean North America, and Europe, so about 10-15% of the global population. I'd say that leaves plenty of other cultures to delve into. ;)
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Well, yeah. We are talking in English about English literature, which almost immediately excludes the vast majority of people on earth. Do we ever talk about books that aren't available in English? I'm not being cultural imperialist, just sticking to the realm that this conversation takes place in. I would assume there is a chat board in Chinese where people are talking about the lack of non-Chinese feudal fantasy stories, blissfully unaware of Piers Anthony.

And my comment about writing about a different culture's history is as a Western writer, like all the writers on this board. There has to be a wealth of fantasy fiction out there just waiting for a translator to tackle the extreme context problems involved.
 
Onyx said:
Do we ever talk about books that aren't available in English?
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Ah, I think we're coming at this from slightly different angles, although probably looking at the same destination. :)

We do talk on these boards about books in other languages. It's not that often, but it does happen, and there are members from all over the globe (some of whom are writers, all are readers). I read mostly in English, I'll admit, although not always English or US lit.

My point about Western readers (perhaps lost in my wording) is that there is surely demand for other cultures to be represented, by sheer dint of numbers. Add to that the various diasporas criss-crossing the planet, including in Anglophone areas, and the sterling work done by book translators, and you have the potential to push some fresh air into the historical fantasy genre.

Anyhow, I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll shut up on this. A couple of other historical fantasy setting I would be interested to read, though, would be the Pacific islands, and something set in the ancient Fertile Cresecent, especially written by someone from the region, able to give it a feeling of home.
 
Abernovo said:
My point about Western readers (perhaps lost in my wording) is that there is surely demand for other cultures to be represented, by sheer dint of numbers. Add to that the various diasporas criss-crossing the planet, including in Anglophone areas, and the sterling work done by book translators, and you have the potential to push some fresh air into the historical fantasy genre.
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What I was getting at is not that other cultural stories would be in any way unwelcome, but that our largely inaccurate ideas about what the middle ages looked like is the default canvas that most fantasy writers use to craft their stories. It isn't right or wrong, it is just there in our zeitgeist to use if you want to do swords and castle stuff. If you want to make it accurate to Europe, Mongolia, etc, that takes considerable work because you have to replace all that stuff your reader "knows" about the Medieval period with real history - and that becomes a harder book to write and read.

This is little different than why spaceships fly like airplanes in SF movies or why books are full of space marines. It's the default expectation of the genre, preferred because it is familiar and doesn't take extra explanation.
 
Templarorder123 said:
So on the other day, I was talking to an author who's doing some Roman style fantasy. He agreed with me that there is a long over-due era in which the medieval era is getting stale.
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I agree completely! The fact that I'm writing Roman-era Urban-Fantasy notwithstanding ;)
This basically stems from what I like to read, namely a lot of Roman-era detectives (like Lindsey Davis' Falco series) and Fantasy for all it's sub-genres.

Since I firmly believe mashing isn't just for potatoes, I ended up with a paranormal detective in a fantasy world loosely based on Ancient Rome (think Harry Dresden in a Toga).

And, thankfully, I'm not the only one. I've read and loved Barry Hughart's Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox (set in an "ancient China that never was"), and CB Pratt's Eno the Thracian, which is set in classical Greece.

I'm now going to trawl this thread to increase my TBR pile...
 
AssaphMehr said:
I agree completely! The fact that I'm writing Roman-era Urban-Fantasy notwithstanding ;)
This basically stems from what I like to read, namely a lot of Roman-era detectives (like Lindsey Davis' Falco series) and Fantasy for all it's sub-genres.

Since I firmly believe mashing isn't just for potatoes, I ended up with a paranormal detective in a fantasy world loosely based on Ancient Rome (think Harry Dresden in a Toga).

And, thankfully, I'm not the only one. I've read and loved Barry Hughart's Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox (set in an "ancient China that never was"), and CB Pratt's Eno the Thracian, which is set in classical Greece.

I'm now going to trawl this thread to increase my TBR pile...
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Have you come across the Thraxas novels by Martin Millar? Picaresque gumshoe stories set in a Romanesque city. With added elves, women in chainmail bikinis, beer.
 
I rather like the idea of future fantasy. Something like the Shadowrun milieu, perhaps; ultratech along with a resurgence of magic. Which will win? A thought: Magic use is often said to be dependent on high intelligence - so how does a heavily-enhanced metahuman cyborg with a computer in his head do?
 
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