Let's talk about.. money!

Sir Vivor

Sir Vivor

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After a 20-year odd break in writing, I'm in the mood to write again, for gain. Only this time, I'm dreaming about writing a science-fiction book, not a non-fiction title (as I have back in the 90s), and I'm wondering about the modern realities of making money out of my keystrokes.

I've chased enough imaginary pots of gold at the end of rainbows to feel suspicious of today's realities surrounding any publishing.

Let's assume I've got an average text all done and polished, and I manage to publish on Kindle without problems (the text passes the Amazon quality criteria and filters). How many copies can one expect to sell? I remember my main non-fiction book selling just shy of 5000 copies back in 1998 or so, and my publisher told me that was about average. The financial rewards for that exercise were hardly worth it: my contract paid me 10K USD as an advance on royalties, and then when the royalties started arriving, I don't remember any figures, only the disappointment.

So what kind of realistic prospects exist going via Kindle, or even a conventional publisher? How many copies does one need to sell to start making a living out of this? What kind of percentage of authors manage this?
 
Welcome to Chrons :D

Pretty much everyone who's sat down and thought "I'm going to do this. " Wonders the same thing, 'will it pay'. The general opinion of Authors and Industry is
No.
or
Don't give up the day job.

Also generalising **traditional** figures based on a few panels and professional workshops:
Approx 95% of books don't get past the slush pile.
of the reamaining 5% only 1% of those go on to get any form of deal.
Of that 1% only 1% might see a four figure deal.

So yes, only ONE author's little finger will ever see a dream deal.


There's a whole forum on Self Pub, including the woes and deliriums of that path. Where there is no risk there is no gain.
Forum : Self-Publishing
@Jo Zebedee writes regularly on the pros and cons for self pub, the worth, value and effort involved, here JoZebwrites

You can track scales of "is it worth it" here too, far more in depth with many more years of experience from Kristine Kathryn Rusch Business Musings Table of Contents

If you'd rather have a male narrative on "Is it worth it" read up on how andy weir got to where he was Andy Weir - About Andy Weir
Then ask @ralphkern and @ratsy about the inside story of what it takes.

Self Publishing is a business, it requires as much time an effort on writing a book as it does promoting it...and it requires money.

Read this for more about that: How I sold 1,000 books over the holidays #marketing #bestseller

But:
It isn't worth it until you have a book to put out there. Are you more secure financially doing the 9-5 ...yes. Does it work out the same (you know I put x hours in will get x£$ out) No.
Are you in it for the money? Leave now.

Good luck what ever you decide!
 
Thanks millymollymo (wacky nick, by the way).. really meaty reply full of very interesting information. I can see a pattern here: as someone who has tried software publishing, and other business models, it looks as if the entire world of business is this ruthless funnel where masses arrive at the entrance, and just a handful emerge at the exit, with bulging bank accounts. Feels a bit like we're all just part of endless plankton, where only one egg in a million survives to become an adult... the rest is food for the food chain above. Ha!

Oh well, at least a budding author can dive in without any naive expectations. Thanks for the really interesting references..
 
The last figures we had in the UK showed that 58% of income was earned by 10% of writers, and 7% made no profit, or made a loss.

You’re looking at lottery style odds. Write the book cos you have to - write it well, make a good product. Then worry about selling it
 
Thanks for the advice. I feel better knowing that the odds, of earning a decent return on the writing effort, are very slim, rather than not knowing at all. Onwards we write, to infinity.. and beyond ! ;-)
 
Aha.. I get a feeling I'll be able to blame Andy Weir for putting "The Martian" in my hands, and describing how lucky he got, money-wise. I thought "The Martian" is good, bordering on the great. But it definitely isn't brilliant. Guess his story just managed to connect with a large readership at the right time for marketing people to happen to be interested in Mars stuff.. ? Success often depends on pure luck (in addition to blood, sweat and tears).
 
Just by the by - I do make a pretty nice four figure income as a writer and it has grown year on year. The bulk of it comes from speaking engagements, festivals and workshops as opposed to sales - but it is still a decent income stream. There is hope.
 
4819.jpg

This, from Tom Gauld, should help (Tom Gauld on sales categories in publishing – cartoon )
 
The good news is that there are probably more writers making a living from writing today than ever before: self-publishing has eliminated most of the middle-men between writer and reader, which lets those writers keep much more of the money from book sales. Romance in particular seemed to pay pretty poorly in the trade-published days, but is a booming business for self-published writers today.

The bad news is that there are probably still only 10-20,000 writers who can do that. You could probably figure out a rough estimate of the number from the Author Earnings reports on Amazon sales.

As for SF, yeah, a few thousand dollars seems to be a standard advance from trade publishers for unknown or little-known writers these days. If you get an advance at all (some seem to want to push such writers into ebook-only deals with royalties but no advance).
 
Sir Vivor said:
Let's assume I've got an average text all done and polished, and I manage to publish on Kindle without problems (the text passes the Amazon quality criteria and filters).
Click to expand...
That's setting the bar a bit low........ :)

Why sf by the way? Not got any stats to hand, but would have thought urban fantasy or a thriller or a police procedural or a romance might be more lucrative.
 
:)
Thought I'd ask to make sure you knew. I'm a spec fic writer too - sf or fantasy. I'm just aware that sf is likely to be less lucrative than some other approaches. Not to say it can't be lucrative, it's just a lower probability of going mass market.
 
Montero said:
:)
Thought I'd ask to make sure you knew. I'm a spec fic writer too - sf or fantasy. I'm just aware that sf is likely to be less lucrative than some other approaches. Not to say it can't be lucrative, it's just a lower probability of going mass market.
Click to expand...
Except that sf and fantasy are, respectively, the fourth and fifth biggest ebook markets after Romance, crime/thriller, and mystery. There are much, much worse genres to be trying to make a living in. Ask my poet and literary fiction friends. :D
 
SF is bigger than Fantasy? Huh. Thought after Game of Thrones fantasy was bigger. There you go.
 
Montero said:
SF is bigger than Fantasy? Huh. Thought after Game of Thrones fantasy was bigger. There you go.
Click to expand...

Last data I reviewed SF had the slightly bigger ebook sales but fantasy has bigger bookstore sales. Both genres are strong in audio though which helps to bring volume up. Authorearnings.com is a good place to explore.
 
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