Sir Vivor
Well-Known Member
I find myself addressing the reader directly now and again... any idea how common this is in science-fiction?
Thx.
Thx.
Breaking the fourth wall
- Thread starter Sir Vivor
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Harpo
Getting away with it
(What do we think, dear reader, eh?)
It happens:
Literature / Breaking The Fourth Wall - TV Tropes
There are degrees of breakage of course, and some (most?) references by the text to the "reader" can be explained away if the fiction is in the style of a memoir or diary. Or there is some meta framework that the story sits in.
I can't judge how prevalent it is, but I'd guess that it's pretty rare for SF.
Literature / Breaking The Fourth Wall - TV Tropes
There are degrees of breakage of course, and some (most?) references by the text to the "reader" can be explained away if the fiction is in the style of a memoir or diary. Or there is some meta framework that the story sits in.
I can't judge how prevalent it is, but I'd guess that it's pretty rare for SF.
tinkerdan
∞<Q-Satis
This can work.
Generally it doesn't.
Usually when humor is the goal.
and that's subjective.
Edward Bulwer-Lytton does this a couple of time in Paul Clifford(Famous for 'The dark and stormy--purple--night...)
Generally it doesn't.
Usually when humor is the goal.
and that's subjective.
Edward Bulwer-Lytton does this a couple of time in Paul Clifford(Famous for 'The dark and stormy--purple--night...)
Breaking the fourth wall works best if you live in a pentagon.
If you are addressing the reader randomly, that's a problem. If you establish a clear convention, and do so immediately, then it will be all about the execution.
If you are addressing the reader randomly, that's a problem. If you establish a clear convention, and do so immediately, then it will be all about the execution.
Luiglin
Getting worse one day at a time
Pratchett did it well with his small side notes, although they often came over more like an Editors notes. Similarly Douglas Adams with his asides in Hitchhikers Guide.
monsterchic
Captain Satanpants
The biggest example that comes to mind is A Series of Unfortunate Events. Admittedly I haven't read the series in YEARS, but I remember it working decently. It does need to be well done, though.
Ooh, also, Deadpool.
Ooh, also, Deadpool.
Penny
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Fourth wall breaking can be done if you are writing it as though the character is narrating the story, it generally makes the story much more.. conversational, it tends to feel cosy like you are being told the story at the fireside.
But it is difficult to do in science fiction, it is more at home with detective novels and comedy.
If you find yourself doing it and you do not mean to. you are probably info dumping and turning it from a character thinking about a subject to them literally telling the reader a bunch of stuff.
You can generally change these by rewriting them to not go off on tangents, keep them short and make sure the end of your infodump relates back in to whatever the character is doing.
But it is difficult to do in science fiction, it is more at home with detective novels and comedy.
If you find yourself doing it and you do not mean to. you are probably info dumping and turning it from a character thinking about a subject to them literally telling the reader a bunch of stuff.
You can generally change these by rewriting them to not go off on tangents, keep them short and make sure the end of your infodump relates back in to whatever the character is doing.
I suppose it’s arguable, but a lot of horror was written in omni which always - to my senses - breaks the 4th wall by default. I think there’s a trade off between depth of engagement/empathy with things like suspense. For example; ‘Odessa didn’t see the wardrobe door close itself after she left the bedroom.’ That’s directly addressing the reader imo.
pH
pH
Hmm. I think there’s a difference between omniscient of that kind, which might be a kind of unseen and unvoiced narrator, and one who directly addresses the reader of the “As you know, magic is but a figment of the imagination” kind which is what I think is meant here.
Omniscient is fine, if not universally applauded any more, but to my mind directly addressing the reader needs to be handled very carefully. It works with old-fashioned children’s stories, and with comic writing, and it could work as an extended piece in first person written eg as a letter to a reader or as a warning for whoever may come after. But in an otherwise third person serious narrative, it would likely pull me out of the story and make me question the writer’s technique and ability. My advice in those circumstances, for someone who is relatively new to writing, is to avoid it.
Omniscient is fine, if not universally applauded any more, but to my mind directly addressing the reader needs to be handled very carefully. It works with old-fashioned children’s stories, and with comic writing, and it could work as an extended piece in first person written eg as a letter to a reader or as a warning for whoever may come after. But in an otherwise third person serious narrative, it would likely pull me out of the story and make me question the writer’s technique and ability. My advice in those circumstances, for someone who is relatively new to writing, is to avoid it.
Penny
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I honestly don't really see books as having a fourth wall, its not as cut and dried as in visual media. in books you are literally talking to the reader from the first word directly if you use certain perspectives.
In 3rd person pov, its hard to tell when the character might be directing a thought at the reader or just generally having a train of thought idea. so it can be kind of tricky in 3rd person
the only real tell is when you basically go, *bob turns and looks slyly at you, the reader* "I know where you live by the way so laugh at my jokes"
In 3rd person pov, its hard to tell when the character might be directing a thought at the reader or just generally having a train of thought idea. so it can be kind of tricky in 3rd person
the only real tell is when you basically go, *bob turns and looks slyly at you, the reader* "I know where you live by the way so laugh at my jokes"
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I agree there’s a difference in omni and 4th wall demolition, but whenever I read a Stephen King, I feel I’m being told a story by Stephen King, face to face, rather than reading a character.
But it’s all degrees of the same thing imo.
In theatre 4th wall can be played with easier and creatively. It’s why I produce (mostly) site specific promenade performances because they’re so more engaging/involving for an audience member.
pH
But it’s all degrees of the same thing imo.
In theatre 4th wall can be played with easier and creatively. It’s why I produce (mostly) site specific promenade performances because they’re so more engaging/involving for an audience member.
pH
Penny
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I remember going to see the circus for the first and so far only time and the clowns came out and grabbed people from the audience and brought them into it. I think that's the only real life 4th wall break I've seen, I don't get out much 
Although I did randomly have a dude turn and look me right in the eyes and point at me as my bus drove by him once, that was pretty creepy 4th wall breaking too I think... RL fourth wall breaks can be confusing.
Although I did randomly have a dude turn and look me right in the eyes and point at me as my bus drove by him once, that was pretty creepy 4th wall breaking too I think... RL fourth wall breaks can be confusing.
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When done well, it wlrls brilliantly. See Shakespeare's Richard III or House of Cards for inspiration.
Tbh I don't recall any sci-fi fourth wall breaking that wasn't comedy, but that's absolutely no reason not to try.
For me to successfully break the fourth wall isn't for the author to simply address the audience, but for the reader to be taken into the character's confidence.
Tbh I don't recall any sci-fi fourth wall breaking that wasn't comedy, but that's absolutely no reason not to try.
For me to successfully break the fourth wall isn't for the author to simply address the audience, but for the reader to be taken into the character's confidence.
I don't know if you mean this, but many instances of 4th wall breakage in novels are characters who realise they are fictions in a novel. And quite a lot of these cases they do not explicitly acknowledge or address the reader, who remains off stage.
Cathbad
Level 30 Geek Master
She-Hulk often addresses the Reader!
Penny
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If you want the best example evah of comic 4th wall breaking check out Gwenpool she breaks the 4th wall harder than Deadpool o.o plus shes a giiiiirll and therefore much more awesome.
The Gwenpool comics are about a normal girl who ends up in a comic universe, her power is that she understands the rules of comic book universes go check it out, well worth the read.
An example from it of Gwenpool trying to break the 4th wall
The Gwenpool comics are about a normal girl who ends up in a comic universe, her power is that she understands the rules of comic book universes
go check it out, well worth the read.An example from it
of Gwenpool trying to break the 4th wall
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William Goldman's The Princess Bride does it beautifully (read the book - it's a million times better than the movie). I seem to recall that The French Lieutenant's Woman by John Fowles does it nicely, too, and that's historical fiction, so genre shouldn't be a barrier.
