Ethics debate as pig brains kept alive without a body

[Biskit]

Researchers at Yale University have restored circulation to the brains of decapitated pigs, and kept the organs alive for several hours.

Pig brains kept alive without a body

 

[awesomesauce]

Part of me thinks that's super interesting. But I do get squeamish about the pigs. I'd feel better about it if they used human brains from consenting donors.

 

[Alexa]

If this can help testing a new treatment for neurological disorders. those 36 hours are precious. I don't see the necessity for an ethical debate, since the pig is dead anyway.

 

[Brian G Turner]

That's the thing - the brain is effectively revived. Sections of human brain are also being developed and grown in the lab - hence the need for ethical guidelines. Especially as there's the danger of lab specimens having a sentient conscious experience while being experimented on.

 

[Amberlen]

ahh, but can a brain have or be a sentient conscious without a soul? i guess it depends on ones belief as to whether or not its an ethical question...

 

[Edward M. Grant]

That's the thing - the brain is effectively revived. Sections of human brain are also being developed and grown in the lab - hence the need for ethical guidelines.

So the experiments will then be conducted by people with no ethics in countries that don't give a damn.

 

[Onyx]

ahh, but can a brain have or be a sentient conscious without a soul? i guess it depends on ones belief as to whether or not its an ethical question...

Are you saying that because they are pigs, or because the soul is stored in the liver?

 

[night_wrtr]

...extend their lifespans - by transplanting their brains when their bodies wear out.

This is exactly where my thoughts went. If I remember right, there was/will be a head transplant soon? The quest for immortality continues.

Especially as there's the danger of lab specimens having a sentient conscious experience while being experimented on.

I'm curious about the conscious experience with only having the use of the brain.

 

[Onyx]

This is exactly where my thoughts went. If I remember right, there was/will be a head transplant soon? The quest for immortality continues.

I'm curious about the conscious experience with only having the use of the brain.

If we were anywhere close to being able to transplant a head, there would be a lot fewer paralyzed people. We can't reconnect severed spines.


I think plenty of people have experienced some form of waking coma where they are not able to feel, hear or see anything.

 

[Edward M. Grant]

This is exactly where my thoughts went. If I remember right, there was/will be a head transplant soon? The quest for immortality continues.

The head transplant saga has been going on for a while. Many people seem to think it's a scam, but someone will do it, sooner or later.

The big question to me is whether we'll be able to hook up the spinal cord and actually have it work, or whether there's too much variation between bodies. Attaching a brain to a robot body may turn out to be easier, particularly once we have working brain-computer interfaces for VR.

Or, heck, just keep the brain in a vat and rent a drone body when you need one.

 

[Amberlen]

Are you saying that because they are pigs, or because the soul is stored in the liver?

well, i wasnt really talking about pigs, but rather a human brain

 

[Onyx]

well, i wasnt really talking about pigs, but rather a human brain

Okay. I'm asking what being decapitated but kept alive has to do with the soul. If your brain is still alive, aren't you alive?

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Okay. I'm asking what being decapitated but kept alive has to do with the soul. If your brain is still alive, aren't you alive?

In the case of the pigs, I believe they were dead for some time before being 'revived' with limited brain activity. If you believe in souls, you'd have to wonder what would happen to a human brain in the same situation: the soul would presumably be long gone before the brain was revived.

Could make an interesting story, though. You're dead and off in whatever heaven you believe in, then pulled back to a brain in a vat.

 

[Onyx]

In the case of the pigs, I believe they were dead for some time before being 'revived' with limited brain activity. If you believe in souls, you'd have to wonder what would happen to a human brain in the same situation: the soul would presumably be long gone before the brain was revived.

Could make an interesting story, though. You're dead and off in whatever heaven you believe in, then pulled back to a brain in a vat.

People are revived after spending long times underwater. There is likely some line to be drawn between being "brain dead" and "persistent vegetative state" and a coma/sleep/consciousness, but if the majority of the brain has electrical activity after restoring circulation, it would seem like an odd claim that the person is no longer "alive" because their soul departed in the interim.

 

[Amberlen]

Okay. I'm asking what being decapitated but kept alive has to do with the soul. If your brain is still alive, aren't you alive?

no i dont think you would be if it were a dead brain, chemically or medically revived. thats my point, i dont see it being sentient...i know you probably disagree?

 

[Amberlen]

People are revived after spending long times underwater. There is likely some line to be drawn between being "brain dead" and "persistent vegetative state" and a coma/sleep/consciousness, but if the majority of the brain has electrical activity after restoring circulation, it would seem like an odd claim that the person is no longer "alive" because their soul departed in the interim.

im not talking about a drowning victim...i was under the assumption these were lab specimens, no longer attached to a body, dead for awhile brains

 

[Onyx]

im not talking about a drowning victim...i was under the assumption these were lab specimens, no longer attached to a body, dead for awhile brains

Please explain what is the difference from being "dead" underwater for 40 minutes and being "dead" because your body was removed if blood flow is restored in both cases.

As far as I understood, I don't think a theologian would see the difference, either.

 

[Amberlen]

Please explain what is the difference from being "dead" underwater for 40 minutes and being "dead" because your body was removed if blood flow is restored in both cases.

As far as I understood, I don't think a theologian would see the difference, either.

it depends on the theologian's faith heritage..dead for 40 minutes and brought back to life isnt frozen for months or years. my priest would tell me i am sure, that once you cross over and receive final judgement, there is no coming back. youre where you are at. whether thats 10 minutes or an hour, idk, but i know its not days/months/years.plus you well know i cant really go into specifics without breaking the no religion rule. im probably already walking that line and will get a naughty sticker for the day

 

[Onyx]

it depends on the theologian's faith heritage..dead for 40 minutes and brought back to life isnt frozen for months or years. my priest would tell me i am sure, that once you cross over and receive final judgement, there is no coming back. youre where you are at. whether thats 10 minutes or an hour, idk, but i know its not days/months/years.plus you well know i cant really go into specifics without breaking the no religion rule. im probably already walking that line and will get a naughty sticker for the day

Freezing isn't really part of this. I thought we were talking about decapitation followed pretty immediately by being put on a heart/lung machine and getting brain waves back.

 

[Amberlen]

then we are misunderstanding the start point, i thought it was grown/done in a lab, etc