Police procedure (England)

Phyrebrat

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Hi all,

I’m after procedural advice about the following, please. I seem to recall there’s a chronner who is a policeman but I can’t for the life of me remember who it is so I’m posting here:

An infant’s body has been found in a van in the town dump. It may be one of twins of one of my main protags whose kids went missing four years prior.

Who would turn up at their house to ask re identification, and how would they go about it?

Also, if the father walks into the scene smoking weed, what would happen to him?

I’d like him to be arrested for 1) possible murder of the kid, 2) leading to suspicion of the murder of another person (adult) and 3) the investigation of the family’s previous home. No evidence is found, and he must be released as he is not the killer.

If you could also explain why this man on the train next to me is eating a stinking, hot pastie at 8.30 in the morning on a baking hot day, that’d be a bonus :D

Thanks for help!

pH
 
Last edited:
Hello,

Ref: I am a UK Met Police Officer for what it's worth

Assuming the person from the dump finds the body, there's a question about how is it found.
If there's a nasty smell, but the bodies not been found, etc you'll get a call to police from dump, then a team response officer will attend. They'll most likely find the body, and call a scenes of crime officer (SOCO down)

At this point it's very non specialist, as the officer attending, based on experience may never have dealt with a dead child before etc, its possible that he/she will put body out before realising what they've got and that experts need to be called in. / throw up depending on smell.

You will then have the matter be referred to CID / the detectives.

If the death was not suspicious, it wouldn't be implausible for another/same team officer to attend, to give a death message of 'person has passed away.' (try and avoid saying 'x is dead'.

RE in the case you've described, you would have detectives allocated the case. All things depending, you could have the father be a named suspect for the case, at which point a arrest enquiry would be made, and response/community officers go around to arrest and take him to custody, where detectives will interview. Otherwise, you can have the detectives go around and do the arrest themselves.

You have interesting interactions with the law here, an arrest enquiry you don't have a warrant, so rely on your normal powers of entry, you generally knock on the door, they answer you say you're under arrest. A warrant, allows you to kick the door in and drag them out. But a warrant requires you to go to a court, which requires a certain amount of evidence. Section 17 PACE 1984, does allow you without a warrant to kick the door in TO execute an arrest, for an indictable offence (ergo murder) but you need to evidence that you know that they're in there. You can't be like, i used Section 17 to kick the door in, went in, oh he wasn't there, and then I searched the house whilst I was there.

If the father walks in smoking a joint, it really depends on the borough/officers attending. If your detective is a main character he may have a reputation for dealing with all crimes. However, detectives/officers generally tend to be extremely overworked, and I wouldn't bat an eyelid if the officer in question said "Sir can you put your cigarette out" and left it at that.

It should be emphasised that arrest itself is a investigative tool, it is not a form of justice.

Ergo, you have to demonstrate why the arrest is necessary and why you couldn't just invite them in to be interviewed by appointment. The usual one: "prompt and effective investigation" doesn't apply as its 4 years old... You're going to be looking at, the arrest is necessary for a promt and effective investigation NOW because without arrest he'll destroy evidence etc now he knows it's being investigated etc, or to stop him killing other people.

ID COP PLAN Flashcards | Quizlet (is your list of reasons)

After interview, he will either be: Charged, no further action or released under investigation. In this case, I would imagine he'll be arrested, then with a lack of evidence, released under investigation. The Released under investigation can be for a very long time.

(regarding the turning up to do the ID, it's likely that he'll already be ID'd if you want to turn up to arrest the dad at the same time. It would be more plausible if you turned up to do the ID, all goes well, then later evidence emerged meaning you went back to nick the dad.

The reason I say this, is if your going around to bust the dad, you already know it's his kid, so no ID is needed. There is a difference between a death message, informing someone that they're person is dead and a formal ID..

But if I'm honest, i've done death message but not ID being a humble grunt ;)

If there's anything specific I can help you with please ask, but I'm not a homocide detective.

Where is your story set, as Met will be very different to County forces.
 
@Vladd67 @Jo Zebedee and @Pentagon

Thank you for taking the time to reply and in particular, many thanks to Pentagon for your exceptionally detailed and helpful reply.

Right now I am in the midst of teaching the RAD's summer school 8 - 5 every day this week (yep, the hottest week of the year - such fun to be in a dance school with no air conditioning; the RAD is a dinosaur). I finish in Sat afternoon so I was hoping to get a more detailed to reply/further questions after Saturday, if that's okay.

In the meantime: Chrons is fantastic.Thanks

pH
 
Just a thought from someone not in the UK:

When the police identify the deceased, there is usually some urgency to get in front of the next of kin before they hear about it from the press or other means. Because of that, whoever is available to make the visit in a timely manner might be put ahead of whomever's case it might be or whomever has the proper seniority. Though it would normally be the investigating detective for suspected foul play or the officer in charge of the accident scene otherwise.

In your particular situation, the officer most likely to be sent would be whomever is handling the missing person's report, assuming that the child's absence had been reported in the first place. And if it had not the police are going to be assuming that there was foul play.
 
Just a thought, (worked for council waste management in another life ;) ) In the UK vehicles are not disposed of at the town dump. Also we don't have, "town dumps," as such, where a vehicle could be left, and not noticed almost right away by the staff, as most recycling centres are manned, and have CCTV. If you mean a large waste tip,(landfill) then goodness you are talking of acres of land, large machines,and difficult access for smaller vehicles. Even household waste vehicles get stuck.(once knew of a road sweeper, whose driver lowered the brushes on the tip, and the vehicle dug itself into a hole) and any small vehicle would be noticed, they are not sent to landfill. If one got up there it would stand out like a sore thumb.

I would suggest your vehicle is found on waste ground, side street, industrial area, or a fly tipping site. Or a scrap metal yard for vehicle disposal. Then it would go unnoticed for a bit.

Also I remember the police having to search part of the landfill my council dealt with for the remains of a murder victim. Even with, "information received", about the whereabouts, it took them weeks, due to the nature of the site, and the constant moving of the waste as it settles.
 
Hi @Susan Boulton,

Yes, you’re right, I was imprecise - the ice cream van is not actually in the town dump itself. :).

In Longham (a small suburb of Bournemouth, Dorset) there is a dump (or whatever they’re called these days) at the end of a long , winding country lane. To one side is a scrap heap - or was - and my set up is analogous to that one.

Thanks for the advice :) .

pH
 
Right, to add a little clarity:

Body gets found, in deemed suspicous circumstances. It will be escolated to a detective at a MIT team (Murder Investigation Team.) These are not your local, run of the mill detectives, these are the more specialist murder specialists.

Detective Bloggs will now be OIC (Officer in the Case) who will be the single point of contact to be in charge of that investigation.

Detective Bloggs determines that there is enough evidence to arrest Dad, he will in all likiihood get a warrant. Which requires going to the court and providing a fair amount of reasoning why. He will then put a request in for the attendence of PoLSA officers.

PoLSA = Police Search Advisor, this is not a separate department but officers across many teams can be PoLSA trained, as an additional skill, so I could be a response officer or a schools officer and be PoLSA trained. The HR equivelent, will then look at who is on duty at the time of the planned warrant, and will allocate X PolSA officers to be present for that operation, on aid. So they may know each other, they may not.

OIC will provide a briefing, and will be the person arresting dad, as the wording is very specific. You can't get away with 'your nicked son', especially in this case. PoLSA will then rip apart the house, IF they find something, then that bit becomes a crime scene YAY. That means that SOCO come out, and will do the forensic examination of that bit. SOCO = scenes of crime officer and they are civilians.

So for example, PoLSA find a bloody lockknife under a bed. SOCO will then examine that area, whilst PoLSA will continue the search of the house.

All the while the OIC will be co-ordinating the operation. After the search, the attending officers on aid will write a statement to say, "I found X". But they will not have anything else to do with the case afterwards and will go back to their usual duties, unless of course there is a need for a search again.

Not sure if this actually adds clarity, but c'est la vie.

Pentagon
 
Hi, thanks for the updated response, and apologies for my delayed reply. I'm playing catch up and am just able now to begin committing this to "paper" sometime this week.

I'm sure my question won't end here, but in the meantime, thanks for the in depth assist!

pH
 
Police procedures, heck! I'm still trying to figure out how they get in the wrong side of the car and drive off!!

:D
 

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