Did Star Trek: DS9 copy Babylon 5?

Vladd67 said:
A story that was allegedly turned down by Paramount before they, coincidentally, also came up with the idea of a series on a Space station.
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Yeah, JMS should be pissed off, but we got two superior series instead of one.
 
Vladd67 said:
A story that was allegedly turned down by Paramount before they, coincidentally, also came up with the idea of a series on a Space station.
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Yes, the idea that DS9 ripped off B5 is widespread. It's also drivel. DS9 was brought to Paramount by an external producer who'd never had access to the B5 material and the original plan had been for a series set on a planetary surface. They switched to a space station only when they discovered they couldn't afford location filming.
 
According to Wikipedia, Straczynski did not allege that Berman and Piller had ripped off ideas from what he had revealed to Paramount, or had even seen it:
Straczynski stated that, even though he was confident that Deep Space Nine producer/creators Rick Berman and Michael Piller had not seen this material, he suspected that Paramount executives used his bible and scripts to steer development of Deep Space Nine.
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Vladd67 said:
A story that was allegedly turned down by Paramount before they, coincidentally, also came up with the idea of a series on a Space station.
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Werthead said:
Yes, the idea that DS9 ripped off B5 is widespread.
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It was interesting to see this interview clip of Patricia Tallman (Lyta Alexander) saying that JMS sued Paramount over the issue and it was settled out of court:


This might better explained the comment @Werthead from your article here:

It should be noted that, many years later, Straczynski also withdrew his suggestion that DS9 ripped off B5, saying that he did not believe Rick Berman nor Michael Piller (whom Straczynski knew) would knowingly rip off another writer's material. He left open the idea that a Paramount executive may have "steered" some discussion with material from his notes
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This turned up in May.

Did Deep Space Nine Plagiarize Babylon 5?

Really, I never would have guessed.
 
I'm mildly amused at the Dukat dichotomy.
 
Every now and again I run into something that is obvious, but I never saw it. This is one of them. Liked both series a lot. But it's hard to believe that Babyon 5 did not have some seminal influence in the development of Deep Space 9.
 
Aye, JMS wanted Paramount to make it, and they had the 'bible' of the Babylon 5 proposition for a long time, hence the influence.

I like both shows, but it's a shame when that sort of thing happens. Got to be vague, but I know of something similar, and worse, whereby an individual had a programme idea, the network in question strung him along then gave the idea to someone else (in-house) and with such little notice that the chap couldn't take his idea elsewhere (it wasn't fiction, I should add).
 
thaddeus6th said:
Aye, JMS wanted Paramount to make it, and they had the 'bible' of the Babylon 5 proposition for a long time, hence the influence.

I like both shows, but it's a shame when that sort of thing happens. Got to be vague, but I know of something similar, and worse, whereby an individual had a programme idea, the network in question strung him along then gave the idea to someone else (in-house) and with such little notice that the chap couldn't take his idea elsewhere (it wasn't fiction, I should add).
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I can't like that, but thanks for sharing!
 
Yeah, it wasn't great from an ethical perspective. But the chap in question did end up landing on his feet, happily.
 
Brian G Turner said:
It was interesting to see this interview clip of Patricia Tallman (Lyta Alexander) saying that JMS sued Paramount over the issue and it was settled out of court:

This might better explained the comment @Werthead from your article here:
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Tallman was incorrect. JMS wanted to sue Paramount but he had no authority to do so (Warner Brothers had bought the B5 property, so they were the aggrieved party) and Warner Brothers refused to do it.
 
Werthead said:
Tallman was incorrect. JMS wanted to sue Paramount but he had no authority to do so (Warner Brothers had bought the B5 property, so they were the aggrieved party) and Warner Brothers refused to do it.
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Tallman wasn't just a major cast member, but also remains in a long-term relationship with JMS. I would think that gives her a special insight into the matter.

Also, whether JMS had the authority of not to bring legal action has no bearing on whether people within Paramount consciously or unconsciously sourced material from JMS for inspiration.
 
Brian G Turner said:
Tallman wasn't just a major cast member, but also remains in a long-term relationship with JMS. I would think that gives her a special insight into the matter.

Also, whether JMS had the authority of not to bring legal action has no bearing on whether people within Paramount consciously or unconsciously sourced material from JMS for inspiration.
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Ok. let's unpack the points here.

Tallman was in the pilot ("The Gathering") and then never made it into season 1. She came back later, but that was mainly because Andrea Thompson (who played the telepath Talia Winters) elected to leave at the end of the second season. Had Thompson not left, then she would have filled the role that Tallman's character (Lyta Alexander) played out in the later seasons. Most probably it would have worked out that the gift Talia receives from Jason Ironheart in the first season episode "Mind War" would have had an actual payoff in season 3 - i.e. in the conflict with the Shadow vessel. (I'm attempting to avoid spoilers at this point, but I can explain the unrealised plot more explicitly if required.)

The point I'm making is that Patricia Tallman only came back to B5 because Andrea Thompson left. I'm not attempting to be contentious in that statement, just saying that that's the reality of TV production. And, actually, I think Tallman did a good job on B5 and the resulting plot works well.

In terms of conscious or unconscious sourcing of material - good luck in proving it. I think some of the contention occurs because the B5 premiere (The Gathering) is a 90 minute movie that was shown in 1993 and the first season of B5 was shown in 1994, whereas DS9 premiered for a 20-episode series 1 in 1993. So, they were always out of sync. B5 ran for 5 series and a planned story-arc. DS9 ran for 7 series in a much more unplanned and unthought-out way.

I do know that I liked both shows at the time. They were good in their own way, they were enjoyable in their own way. Those ways were different, neither of them were especially better than the other. They were both 20 years ago - can't we stop arguing about which one's better and just like them both?
 
psikeyhackr said:
So some people can't see or won't admit the obvious.
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The obvious being that it wasn't plagiarised? Indeed.

It's hard for someone to plagiarise something when they didn't even work for the company that had (briefly, years earlier) held the material in question when they came up with the idea independently.

It's also worth noting that J. Michael Straczynski rescinded, in full, his accusations of plagiarism when he realised this.
 
I am sure that nothing has ever been settled out of court and included a gag order. I am sure both Dukats would have approved.
 
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