Who Knows Philadelphia?

[-K2-]

The first two novels of the series I am working on take place in Philadelphia. Society has been broken up into a new form of class structure wherein, 63% of the population is now of the lowest group. All groups to some degree have been forced to devolve, none more so than that lowest group. On top of that, minorities be they racial, cultural, national, have intentionally been forced into that group.

To that end, people in those lowest segregated areas (pastoral zones) have devised their own pidgin language. However, the residents of South Philadelphia have tried to hold their ground (in that the bulk of these minorities were placed there), so, their developed pidgin utilizes (to some degree) current Philadelphia slang and dialect.

If you're from Philly, or know Philly (which I do not), I'd like to have you look over a list of words (which I will post here in this thread, IF there are those who can help), and tell me how they strike you. Some will be current slang, others altered, and some new. A lot of existing slang however is not necessary, so, I'm not trying to compile a complete list of existing slang (which I have and deleted a number of words).

One last thing which might be of interest to those from there.
South Philadelphia (which is entirely a pastoral zone), where once 175,000 lived, now over 1,000,000 are crammed into there.
Worse still, where there was 14.2 mi² of space, due to sea rise it has shrunk to 1.2 mi², making a population density of 833,333/mi².

Is there anyone familiar with Philadelphia who might help with this?

Thanks for any responses!

K2

 

[Brian G Turner]

If you're from Philly, or know Philly (which I do not)

If it's not a daft question, why aren't you writing about a city you know and are familiar with and therefore can make seem more real to a reader?

 

[tinkerdan]

Are you certain that it isn't presently 142.00 square miles.
Current population is 1.5 million
current Density is around 10,560 per square mile

Reducing that to 1.2 miles would make the density of it about 1.25 million per square mi

I take it your projection is a future where there are one 1 million people left to make your figures.
However for conciseness about the shrinkage I think you should look at the 14.2 Square miles figure.

As to lingo and strange dialects and idioms and pidgin--I'd keep it simple and easy to read unless you really intend to make the readers have a headache all the way through.

Since it takes place in the future it can be what you make it; though there might be some value to inserting some existing referential material; you should consider that it might limit your audience to a low percentage of a 1.5 million base who will appreciate it. Also it assumes that none of the lingo exists elsewhere, which I find highly unlikely. Though it might vary from city to city (or insert large city to large city); within regions or countries there might be some deviation to an overall norm of lingo that crops up in each city and that will likely vary over the decades enough that it won't matter where you find the base for you lingo.

However the real key is to make it readable--unless your goal is to fail to communicate.

 

[The Big Peat]

All I know of Philly is the tales/propaganda I've heard in western PA but if you're short of eyes, I do have a writer friend from there who I can tap up to help.

 

[-K2-]

If it's not a daft question, why aren't you writing about a city you know and are familiar with and therefore can make seem more real to a reader?

Three reasons.
* The first being, the stories scenario would not be logical if I did. When discussing an entire specific nation, coupled with various conditions and driven by various illogical individuals, you get certain results. That's the result.
* Second, as I always do (in that it is fun for me), the amount of research I have done, and will continue to do, should leave the reader if they are from Philadelphia (in this case) thinking I must be as well. IOW, I'll know (and have already learned to some extent) enough about Philly that I could actually visit there, find my way around and get along comfortably.

As an example, the entire route for the characters in the story I have already looked at, devised maps, then followed those routes using 3D mapping to insure that my story takes place at certain buildings. So, someone from X neighborhood should be able to read my story and might say "holy smokes, that's right next door!" I personally like having my stories be that accurate.

* Lastly, the way society is changing in the story, is just like societies I've known much of my life. That also goes with the conditions, situations and so on. So, since Philly will be changing so much to match my life experience, in a round about way I am.

Clear as mud, huh Thanks for responding!

Are you certain that it isn't presently 142.00 square miles.
Current population is 1.5 million
current Density is around 10,560 per square mile

I take it your projection is a future where there are one 1 million people left to make your figures.
However for conciseness about the shrinkage I think you should look at the 14.2 Square miles figure.

As to lingo and strange dialects and idioms and pidgin--I'd keep it simple and easy to read unless you really intend to make the readers have a headache all the way through.

However the real key is to make it readable--unless your goal is to fail to communicate.

Well, my numbers there were for "South Philadelphia," not the whole of Philadelphia. The story actually encompasses: CASE-Population Total: Population 417,000,000. CASE-Area: 22,304sq.km.. Most of the U.S. population, Canada, Caribbean and elsewhere had all crammed into the Bos-Wash megaregion.

As to the pidgin languages, I am very comfortable with them in the story. They're first of all a pidgin-English, slang and so on. That makes it easier to 'guess' right off the bat, however, I feel I've presented it in such a way that it will be of little issue to the reader. Some of my initial readers were even laughing about how they were initially confused, but, the story pulled them ahead, and in short order they actually understood the language not even requiring translations (which they found hilarious in a good way).

However, regarding S. Philly specifically, there they have their own dialect. So, for a small group it needs to evolve from their dialect, not English or the Caribbean, etc..

Past that, there are times I DON'T want it understood (unless they look to the translations). There is value IMO in the reader not having every answer ahead of time, or always feeling comfortable.

Thanks for your response!

All I know of Philly is the tales/propaganda I've heard in western PA but if you're short of eyes, I do have a writer friend from there who I can tap up to help.

Appreciated, however, it's just a casual question to the members here. I don't want to have to drag in folks to work (if that makes sense)... If need be, I have other places I can check.

Thanks so much for considering my post! Thanks everyone!

K2

 

[tinkerdan]

Oh sorry.
the 14.2 looked like a miss-type of 142
I didn't make the connection to south Philly because that's 9.7 square mi.
With a present density of close 17000 per sq mi
which is higher than the average density.
One thought on trying to configure a dense city might be to look at some of the worlds most dense such as Dhaka.

 

[-K2-]

@tinkerdan ; Understood about 9.7 sq. mi., however, in my story part of Center City (downtown) also makes up new S. Philly... although, my starting population is JUST S. Philly.

I'm basing it upon two places that I am very familiar with, and many other similar places. Hak Nam (old Kowloon, Walled City) and Rocinha, Brazil. At its peak, Hak Nam had a population density of 1,920,000/sq.km., that's 4,972,780.8/sq.mi..

Crowded, huh?

K2

 

[tinkerdan]

It's easier to imagine by this quote.

{Quote}To put it another way, think about living in a 1,200 square foot home. Then imagine yourself living with 9 other people. Then imagine that your building is only one unit of a twelve-story building, and every other unit is as full as yours. Then imagine hundreds those buildings crammed together in a space the size of four football fields.[/Quote]
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-66-kowloon-walled-city/

 

[-K2-]

@tinkerdan ; it's actually vastly more complex than that from a societal standpoint. Such places where typically we would think that due to criminal elements, poverty, presumed class attitudes and so on, society would devolve, in reality such places evolve into a communal system of unwritten laws and standards.

Part of that also being language in the form of unique vocabularies/dialects/etc..

IOW, the people pull together and work together to insure harmony. Criminal elements tend to take on the roles of defenders and benefactors, gangs tend to become more like extended families and clubs, and the people in general protect those groups no matter what nonsense they might be about, just as those groups take care of them.

On top of that, standards of societal interaction, courtesy and propriety also evolve to suit the environment. At times, make shift republics or governments wherein representatives from each group meet and discuss issues forming agreements that affect the whole. Not only dense areas like Hak Nam and Rocinha work(ed) like that, yet most "lower class" impoverished groups or even areas (like slums) do the same.

In fact, later on in my series, the inhabitants of CASE City will discover that some other areas of the nation stayed put, or drew in those individuals wandering about. The city that I'll have be the jewel of self governing harmony having turned the environmental nightmare into an Eden if you will, will be Detroit, simply because of the diversity and spirit of independence the citizens there have, lends itself to that potential for positive evolution.

The trick with any such place naturally being, separating itself from the existing (often self serving) national governments we know today.

K2

 

[Brian G Turner]

Worse still, where there was 14.2 mi² of space, due to sea rise it has shrunk to 1.2 mi²

Is the geology they built on solid rock? Just that if it's not, I'd expect that part to subside and sink.

 

[-K2-]

Is the geology they built on solid rock? Just that if it's not, I'd expect that part to subside and sink.

Funny you should ask! That very issue along with the resulting storm water volume increase (due to the change in climate) might (but won't) result in high water levels that would swamp all of S. Philly. In that for the third novel I had to concern myself with this (in that I expected residents of New York and elsewhere would take on a new term, "timber," and "Tide on the rise" regarding the buildings and 'contaminated' water levels (another massive point for S.Philly)), I looked into Philadelphia's geology, elevations relating to sea-rise and so on... and here are a couple of links:

Surging Seas: Risk Zone Map

NGMDB Product Description Page

https://scholarsmine.mst.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1596&context=icchge

Along with highly detailed topographic maps, etc..

And it goes on... All of it playing into the story as the various cities within CASE City each will have massive unique problems due to the poor choice of the Mad Clown.

K2

 

[-K2-]

Someone from the forum has offered to help, so here is what I have thus far regarding 'Sowfee-say' with a bit of an explanation.

In the near future after an ecological collapse, the entire nation+ has congregated into a very small region. In the area previously known as South Philadelphia (including a portion of Center City) was walled off along Samson St. from the Schuylkill to the Delaware rivers, the bridges blown, and then 'Cull One' took place.

Residents of S. Philly refused to leave, some were forced, and roughly 1-million new residents were crammed in, all adults, all 'undesirable' (by government standards) races, nationalities, cultures. Initially as the new residents tried to find somewhere to live (there is no law or order of any kind), riots naturally ensued as previous residents tried to keep what was theirs and so on.

There are no utilities including water, in less than a year no food, and subsequently mass genocide by the government began (for reasons not disclosed)...

As to the language;
Virtually everyone initially spoke English in their own dialects or pidgin English, although, for all intents and purposes it was like the biblical Babel with numerous languages. 'Southies or Southpaws' as they originally called themselves, original South Philadelphia residents, began intensifying their dialect/slang to differentiate themselves.

The Southpaws slang vocabulary grew in some aspects, and obviously reduced in others. At the same time, the new residents began naturally evolving a common pidgin English language (called P-say), and ultimately the two dialects began to mingle slightly.

Words reduced in size and definitions became clustered (one word means many similar things based on context). Vowels and consonants increased or decreased to generate generic phonetic results to differentiate the words. Words that had previous meanings were reapplied, and new rules of usage established (over time and through use).

Finally, through a government program of mass conditioning/brainwashing, people have not so much dumbed down as they have learned to disregard history (even yesterday), not look to tomorrow, simply exist and try to stay alive. It is an absolutely lawless society, and the worst threat comes from the government.

The 'P-say' pidgin English language (used by all residents along with English), is used along with 'Sowfee-say' by original South Philadelphia residents. Currently P-say stands at 278-words (used in the manuscript), many used for numerous words. Sowfee-Say stands at roughly 176 words, many supporting multiple meanings, however, it is only spoken by Southpaws having evolved from the Philadelphia dialect.

Thanks for your help... Please, considering the above and the language's evolution, and let me know if it seems like a reasonable evolution, what words should not be used or if something might be missing.

K2


A4. South Philadelphia (exclusive) Dialect Pastoral Pidgin/Slang Vocabulary:
Sowfee-say – South Philadelphia pidgin

Notes:
1. "Ja and jew" (you) defines the word as a statement or question respectively. They may be used as a prefix or suffix as part of a compound word. They may be added to any word where the word "you" is adjacent as an option.
2. P-say compound words utilizing "ya" will not have "ja or jew" replace it unless noted. However, P-say words that do not use "ya" as part of the word, may have "ja or jew" attached to them as an option.
3. "Jawn and Jawnt" differentiates the word between a person or place, verses a thing/object. It is only used as a suffix when part of a compound word.

Aditood – attitude
Amost – almost
Aneehey – anyway
Aneejawn – anyone
Aneejawnt – anything
Aredy – already
Arite – alright
Arjew – are you?
Arn – iron, a bladed weapon
Arnch – aren’t
Arnjew – aren’t you?
Ahways – always
Axs – ask
Back – help
Bag – disregard, discard, dispute (bag that)
Batree – battery
Bafroom – bathroom
Beed – lived, are somewhere, location
Bet – assurance of yes
Beyoodeeful – beautiful, very good
Bob Mahoff – a big shot (bob P-say for big)
Blab – tell, say
Blount – male appendage
Boul – a male, guy, dude
Brungd – brought
Cahnt – can’t
Caus – because
Cawk – chalk
Cept – except
Con – can
Cooch – female genitals
Coont – couldn't
Confrabill – comfortable
Crawn – crayon
Culpert – (concrete) sewer, culvert, ditch
Cumpnee – company, gang
Dahnashure – water’s edge in flooded areas
Dan – than
Dat – that
Deez – these
Deflee – definitely
Dem – them
Dere – there, they’re, their
Dey – they
Difent – different
Dint – didn't
Dis – this
Dit – did
Doan – don’t
Doanjew – don’t-you?
Doin – doing
Dou – though
Doze – those
Drawlin’ – not acting normal
Duh – uh, obviously
Ee – he
Erl – oil
Ebeyjawn – everyone
Ebeyjawnt – everything
Figa – figure, thought
Finary – finally
Firster – original, first
Fluffia – Philadelphia
Fusstated – frustrated
Gat – get
Gehead – go ahead
Gofforbid – god forbid
Gulpa – female/gay male promiscuous individual
Haf – have, has, got
Hal – how?
Haroun – around
Honedawg – horny male
Husbint – husband
Ideer – idea
Iragardlas – regardless
Ja – you (except as part of a question)
Jat – you-at
Jazis – your, yours, you are (singular)
Jea – yes
Jawn – noun used in place of any person, place
Jawnt – noun used in place of a thing
Jeweet – did you eat?
Jew – you? (only as part of a question)
Jewam – you are?
Jouze – you-all (plural)
Keller – color
Krusty – the Mad Clown
Lanick Sidy – Atlantic City (obsolete)
Lantic – Atlantic
Lasch – last
Lectric – electric
Lecticiti – electricity
Mac – food station
Mayhaps – maybe/perhaps
Meeroe – mirror
Myen – mine
Mayzwel – may as well
Naw – no
Nawt – not
Neeter – either
Newsi – nosey
Noewt – know
Nuttin – nothing
Ocky – fake
Offen – often
Outta – out-of
Paydy – wife
Paymint – pavement
Petique – petite, very small
Pixture – picture
Plug – fire hydrant
Powstabowx – mailbox
Pralee – probably
Punch – contaminated water
Ragalar – regular
Rawn – ruin, wreck, destroy
Redicliss – ridiculous
Reesen – reason, why
Rocky – hero
Rowe – fight, riot
Sayles – understood
Sawty – wrong
Sena Sidy – old downtown, now the other side of the wall
Shuut – should
Sides – beside(s)
Sidy – city
Simler – similar
Skeevie – untrustworthy or disgusting person
Skoowlee – Schuylkill and Delaware Rivers
Smut – prostitute
Sol – saw
Southpaw – original South Philadelphia resident gang, gang member
Sowfee – original South Philadelphia resident before the Gathering
Sowfilly – South Philadelphia
Spec – find
Square – city block
Tadee – today
Tal – towel, rag
Tamarra – tomorrow
Tawk – talk
Touk – take
Touked – took, taken
Tourst – anyone not from S. Philly
True – yes, okay
True-dat – (true-that) yes, okay with emphasis
Tweeka – habitual drug user
Umid – humid
Umin – human, people
Wahn – want
Wahta – want to
Wahtin – wanting
Welp – well
Wha – what?
Whada – water (also see wooder)
Whadam – what-are
Whadjew – what-do-you?
Whaja – what you
Whajado – what you did
Whajewdo – what did you?
Whajamacallit – word used to express forgetting the proper name of someone or thing in frustration trying to remember. Jawn/jawnt would typically be used otherwise.
Whodjew – who do you?
Winda – window (rarely used, old form)
Windil – window
Wit – with
Witout – without
Wooder – water (also see whada)
Woont – wouldn't
Wunnaful – wonderful
Wurt – weren’t
Yesady – yesterday
Yoha – traditional greeting
Yougbol – male child
Yousta – used to
Zink – sink

Thanks again for your consideration!

K2

 

[The Big Peat]

One tiny bit I can add without referring to my outside help - you might want to add Youse for you plural, that's a Philly thing. I know that because I use it occasionally and my Pittsburgh in laws asked me where I picked it up as for them its something they hear from Philly people.

 

[-K2-]

One tiny bit I can add without referring to my outside help - you might want to add Youse for you plural, that's a Philly thing. I know that because I use it occasionally and my Pittsburgh in laws asked me where I picked it up as for them its something they hear from Philly people.

I actually have that, though it has evolved. Youse has become Jouze (although, I'm debating the z-for-s replacement).

Wherein P-say embraced 'y' and ya (for you), Southpaws moved to a hard 'j' for ja and jew. So youse and yaziz became jouse and jazis with jazis taking on a new singular usage. Besides simply wanting to be different no matter how engrained the word was into the language, Southpaws realized that the 'j' sound was more difficult for many other cultures to produce (having not been taught to do so).

So, they embraced it considering the strength of the existing core words of 'jew, jawn, jawnt' simply firming up the 'hard-j' sound in all cases.

Thanks for your help!

K2