Extollager
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2010
- Messages
- 9,241
Oliver Twist!
Jane Eyre!
Wackford Squeers's academy, Dotheboys Hall!
Gradgrind!
C. S. Lewis's autobiography's account of "Belsen"! Maybe your own experience. The miseries of school.
C. T. Randall's thread on moral blind spots won't let go of me.
moral blind spots
Once you start trying to think about bad things of which our culture is oblivious or that our culture is more or less willing to shrug off, quite a few come to mind.
I got to thinking about school -- in the United States, that'd be kindergarten through twelfth grade. A person might start kindergarten at the age of 5 and have turned 18, or be nearly 18, when he or she graduates from high school.
This thread invites discussion of three related things:
(1)Personal narratives relating to one's own experiences, or the experiences of people one knows, relating to various forms of suffering encountered in school
(2)Nonfiction accounts of unhappiness in school from any time or place, as long as the word school is appropriate; thus, so as to keep this thread, already capacious, from being even more expansive, accounts of troubles inflicted by live-in tutors in the old days, etc. would not be appropriate
(3)Fictional accounts of unhappiness in school, e.g. from great Victorian novels, etc.
I'm starting from this, that it seems certain that a great deal of unhappiness is (still) experienced by some children in school, whether from individual bullies or gangs, unfair teachers, and so on. Children who begin school as reasonably cheerful little beings become fearful, or cruel, aggressive, dishonest, etc. after being in school. Some of them will cut themselves or even kill themselves.
It may be suggested that gathering a bunch of young people based simply on age and keeping them together in a compulsory situation is not going to work out well for some of them. I am more than a bit skeptical of the claims -- not so often trotted out now as 25 years ago? -- about the benefits of school for "socialization" even if its outcomes with regard to the attainment of knowledge were, admittedly, not so hot.
Yes, I realize that school is a refuge for some youngsters from bad families, and, for many, a place more or less passively accepted with good and not so good elements -- which is pretty much what it was for me, by the way. It's remarkable to me how much I don't seem to remember of school, considering how many hours I spent in school.
According to the National Center for Education Statistics (2007-2008!), the average American student puts in almost seven hours a day, and 180 days, in school per year. That suggests, for grades 1-12, a total of 2,160 days, or 15,120 hours.
Obviously an institution like this is going to have a great impact on someone's life. "Like this" -- but what, in fact IS like school? Is anything like school?
Yet we think of it as natural or as a necessity, though compulsory school attendance such as this is, historically speaking, an abnormality.
Now, those hours will probably be divided up into various subjects, especially in later grades (the "platoon school"). The "lessons" of 19th-early 20th-century factories were applied to schools.
(I have only glanced at this item, but it appears to give much of the content of Education and the Cult of Efficiency, a book I read about 40 years ago:
Raymond Callahan: “Education and the Cult of Efficiency” – RE-EXAMINING EDUCATIONAL POLICY)
The point is that the structure of school is not necessarily based on attention to the way individuals learn and flourish. I am glad that homeschooling is available in all 50 states so that some children can benefit from it. Likely enough their parents are pretty well-educated as compared to their predecessors, at least as regards possession of post-high school education.)
We'll probably get glimpses of other places and times in nonfiction and fiction. I have some ideas myself for posting.
The above is some context. It's not the intention of this thread to get into lengthy discussions of educational policy -- please! What I hope to see is plentiful interesting anecdote and source-citing for the topic's three aspects as listed above.
If you present any personal information, be sure before posting that you are comfortable with it being publicly available.
It's fine if someone wants to start a thread for good things about teachers, education, etc. As a retired career teacher myself, I hope there are many people here who had really good school experiences.
Jane Eyre!
Wackford Squeers's academy, Dotheboys Hall!
Gradgrind!
C. S. Lewis's autobiography's account of "Belsen"! Maybe your own experience. The miseries of school.
C. T. Randall's thread on moral blind spots won't let go of me.
moral blind spots
Once you start trying to think about bad things of which our culture is oblivious or that our culture is more or less willing to shrug off, quite a few come to mind.
I got to thinking about school -- in the United States, that'd be kindergarten through twelfth grade. A person might start kindergarten at the age of 5 and have turned 18, or be nearly 18, when he or she graduates from high school.
This thread invites discussion of three related things:
(1)Personal narratives relating to one's own experiences, or the experiences of people one knows, relating to various forms of suffering encountered in school
(2)Nonfiction accounts of unhappiness in school from any time or place, as long as the word school is appropriate; thus, so as to keep this thread, already capacious, from being even more expansive, accounts of troubles inflicted by live-in tutors in the old days, etc. would not be appropriate
(3)Fictional accounts of unhappiness in school, e.g. from great Victorian novels, etc.
I'm starting from this, that it seems certain that a great deal of unhappiness is (still) experienced by some children in school, whether from individual bullies or gangs, unfair teachers, and so on. Children who begin school as reasonably cheerful little beings become fearful, or cruel, aggressive, dishonest, etc. after being in school. Some of them will cut themselves or even kill themselves.
It may be suggested that gathering a bunch of young people based simply on age and keeping them together in a compulsory situation is not going to work out well for some of them. I am more than a bit skeptical of the claims -- not so often trotted out now as 25 years ago? -- about the benefits of school for "socialization" even if its outcomes with regard to the attainment of knowledge were, admittedly, not so hot.
Yes, I realize that school is a refuge for some youngsters from bad families, and, for many, a place more or less passively accepted with good and not so good elements -- which is pretty much what it was for me, by the way. It's remarkable to me how much I don't seem to remember of school, considering how many hours I spent in school.
According to the National Center for Education Statistics (2007-2008!), the average American student puts in almost seven hours a day, and 180 days, in school per year. That suggests, for grades 1-12, a total of 2,160 days, or 15,120 hours.
Obviously an institution like this is going to have a great impact on someone's life. "Like this" -- but what, in fact IS like school? Is anything like school?
Yet we think of it as natural or as a necessity, though compulsory school attendance such as this is, historically speaking, an abnormality.
Now, those hours will probably be divided up into various subjects, especially in later grades (the "platoon school"). The "lessons" of 19th-early 20th-century factories were applied to schools.
(I have only glanced at this item, but it appears to give much of the content of Education and the Cult of Efficiency, a book I read about 40 years ago:
Raymond Callahan: “Education and the Cult of Efficiency” – RE-EXAMINING EDUCATIONAL POLICY)
The point is that the structure of school is not necessarily based on attention to the way individuals learn and flourish. I am glad that homeschooling is available in all 50 states so that some children can benefit from it. Likely enough their parents are pretty well-educated as compared to their predecessors, at least as regards possession of post-high school education.)
We'll probably get glimpses of other places and times in nonfiction and fiction. I have some ideas myself for posting.
The above is some context. It's not the intention of this thread to get into lengthy discussions of educational policy -- please! What I hope to see is plentiful interesting anecdote and source-citing for the topic's three aspects as listed above.
If you present any personal information, be sure before posting that you are comfortable with it being publicly available.
It's fine if someone wants to start a thread for good things about teachers, education, etc. As a retired career teacher myself, I hope there are many people here who had really good school experiences.
Last edited: