Star Trek - Discovery - 2.05: Saints of Imperfection

[Cathbad]

-----------------------------
Creating topic, remember you
can only discuss this episode
inside this topic. Reviews of
the episode are encouraged
WARNING!! There will be spoilers!
-----------------------------

First Shown 2/14/19 (Th.) 8:30 PM CBSAA

 

[Cathbad]

I think we are beginning to understand why the spore-drive program was discontinued, and knowledge of it was suppressed.

 

[Cathbad]

I never had a doubt they were going to bring the Good Doctor back... but I had envisioned a different scenario. Still, the way it was done... was marvelous!

The best episode this season (so far)!

 

[Dave]

But Culber back, Ash back, Georgiou back... it felt like a rest button. Or, a course-correction they are calling it elsewhere. It tied up things much more neatly than real life does. Also, are Tilly and Culber the same people? Or, is that a stupid question if we don't ask the same question every time someone uses the normal Transporter? And did Culber recover rather too quickly from his dishevelled, swivel-eyed, Robinson Crusoe-like appearance into his self-sacrificing and heroic speech? Also, does this mean that Ash/Voq never murdered anyone?

Still, a good episode and what I really like is the way they dump info without it appearing to be an info dump. We know much more about Section 31 in this time now, and all from the sparring off between Pike and Leland, and between Michael and Georgiou. I said after an earlier episode that I couldn't believe Georgiou wasn't in charge. Well, it seems she is anyway. She doesn't need to have a title to get whatever she wants by blackmail and dark ops.

Still searching dead ends for Spock. I can't see him being found before the penultimate episode this Season. Meanwhile, people are playing "Spock" drinking games. His name was mentioned fourteen times this week, that is more than in Star Trek episodes where his character actually appeared.

 

[Cathbad]

But Culber back, Ash back, Georgiou back... it felt like a rest button. Or, a course-correction they are calling it elsewhere. It tied up things much more neatly than real life does. Also, are Tilly and Culber the same people? Or, is that a stupid question if we don't ask the same question every time someone uses the normal Transporter? And did Culber recover rather too quickly from his dishevelled, swivel-eyed, Robinson Crusoe-like appearance into his self-sacrificing and heroic speech? Also, does this mean that Ash/Voq never murdered anyone?

Still, a good episode and what I really like is the way they dump info without it appearing to be an info dump. We know much more about Section 31 in this time now, and all from the sparring off between Pike and Leland, and between Michael and Georgiou. I said after an earlier episode that I couldn't believe Georgiou wasn't in charge. Well, it seems she is anyway. She doesn't need to have a title to get whatever she wants by blackmail and dark ops.

Still searching dead ends for Spock. I can't see him being found before the penultimate episode this Season. Meanwhile, people are playing "Spock" drinking games. His name was mentioned fourteen times this week, that is more than in Star Trek episodes where his character actually appeared.

Paragraph #1 - I think they were all coming back from the start. *** Voq murdered the doctor, not Ash. I believe he was already exhonerated for that?

Paragraph #2 - Y'all had more info than me with Section 31 from the start - I'd actually never head of it before Discovery. Or at least, I don't recall hearing of it. *** I'm liking the Georgiou character better now; she was just a cookie-cutter captain before.

Paragraph #3 - When he's present, ther's not much need to say Spock's name - n'est-ce pas?

 

[Alexa]

I don't know how I feel about this one. Discovery has now two captains and it seems nobody really dies.

Georgiou is good in the role of the trouble maker. I agree her character is better now.

 

[Glaysher]

Didn't Section 31 used to be a secret organisation? Now they seem to be acting openly and everyone knows who they are.

 

[Alexa]

Discovery crew cannot be categorized as everyone.

 

[Anthoney]

Didn't Section 31 used to be a secret organisation? Now they seem to be acting openly and everyone knows who they are.

Yes. In both cases that we've seen before (Enterprise and DS9) they were a secret organisation. Both Captains seem ignorant of it's existence. Now they seem to be waving they're badges in everyone's faces. I love the Georgiou in section 31 storyline but I just wish they employed some people who actually knew Star Trek.

 

[Cathbad]

Having been in the military,might I just add... everyone does know about the existance of covert military organizations, real and imagined!

 

[Dave]

I also don't find it a problem that everyone on Discovery knows about Section 31. Discovery is not your usual ship. It is the only ship we know of with the top secret spore-drive. It has top of the range holographic communications technology. It spent a whole year in an alternative Mirror universe with a first officer who mutineered and was stripped of rank. It's former Captain, who was from the Mirror universe, had a skeleton of a Gorn in a menagerie, a species not yet discovered in our universe. Knowing about Section 31 doesn't even come near the top of the list.

 

[Glaysher]

Having an Admiral give them orders contradicts the autonomy that they've been described as having before. They are supposed to be outside the chain of command, answerable only to themselves.

 

[Dave]

Having an Admiral give them orders contradicts the autonomy that they've been described as having before. They are supposed to be outside the chain of command, answerable only to themselves.

That IS true. However, is she still a Vice Admiral in the normal hierarchy of Star Fleet? She is called "admiral" but that could be an honorific title. She seems too hands on for a Star Trek admiral or commodore, who Kirk thinks are pen pushers and sit behind desks. Kirk wishes he wasn't an admiral. She meets ships in the field, goes on missions and gets captured by Klingons. She is very unusual in that respect (compare her with Decker) and I thought she might actually be part of Section 31 until this week when Pike accepts her orders without question. I'm confused by her role.

 

[ctg]

I thought it was a wonderful episode that almost used all of the cast members in the ST series. It showed a drift between the dimensions and it showed that Discovery has roots in the StarFleet Clandestine Programs. Back when they were playing with the Section 31 stuff at DS9 and Enterprise, the whole idea was shaky, because the producers didn't had balls to really involve the black world.

To me, the whole spore-drive smelled like a program that would us present itself a Special Access Program. It is kind of surprising that like with SAP's you need an invitation, but within the StarFleet they know it as black program. None of them are trying to deny it's existence. Not even the producers as in its unique way the S31 completes the picture.

Back when Kirk and Spock were travelling the universe, it was a secret that nobody talked about, but now that we know, the producers cannot deny. I, personally support their vision as it's something that StarFleet needs. In some other show they could call it as the "dark side," and in a way that's what it really is as within their program there are no restrains on what they do.

Some of the excursions that ST:NG took into the Romulan space would have better suited to be shown to coming from the Section 31. But in regards of their ships, it is unlike in our world, the Section 31 seems to have a small number of vessels, and they are all highly specialised.

I wonder how many there are in total numbers? Also did S31 later on evolve to become the StarFleet's Temporal Burouch?

Nevertheless, Dr Culbert's rescue was heart warming and frankly, it made me shed tears. I didn't even think he would be alive in that other dimension. But it also made me to think why is that there are no other souls trapped in the network? Surely during their jumps any number of souls could have made the jump as Discovery was sometimes hurting during the jumps.

It's just I don't buy Statmets theory completely and to me it sounded that writers wanted to close that loop-hole. But now that they've seen and used the organic transport, surely they can mimic its functions and provide Tilly a way back to May. After all, all they need is spores and water bears.

 

[Cathbad]

Having an Admiral give them orders contradicts the autonomy that they've been described as having before. They are supposed to be outside the chain of command, answerable only to themselves.

All covert operations claim this - and it's never true. Simple "Plausible Deniability". These military entities take orders from someone.

 

[ctg]

We’d long heard reports that Culber would be coming back, following his shocking and frustrating death during the first season. But now that it’s finally come to fruition, Rapp and Cruz spoke to the Hollywood Reporter about what it’s like to finally have the pair back together. Also, how Culber has changed—not only since his time away, but also because he’s essentially in a brand-new body.

Rapp said he didn’t know how or when Culber would be coming back until he read the script for “Saints of Imperfection,” saying he “didn’t want to know” anything about Culber’s resurrection beforehand because Stamets wouldn’t have known either. But now that it’s happened, he and Cruz said they’re happy with the results.

“If we were going to give the fans a return that is worthy of this show and character, I wanted to make sure that it was as epic as I was being told it would be. And I think we have delivered on that,” said Cruz, who also added that the fan response since Culber’s death has been “unrelenting.” He said, “I love the passion people have for these characters and the show. It’s been overwhelming to keep people excited and engaged and not worried too much about the fact that Culber was gone.”

Looking forward, it may get rough for the couple. Cruz discussed how Culber’s changed since his time away, and it will affect his relationship with Stamets. After all, Culber’s been dead, returned to life, and then slowly devoured by spores until he could protect himself. The war may be over, but he’s spent months struggling to survive inside the Mycelial network. Plus, he’s essentially in a brand-new body now, one he’s never used before. As Rapp put it, it’s like “coming out of a coma.” Luckily, we’re going to get some quality time to find out.

Cruz emphasized we’re going to get to spend a lot more time with Culber as his own character, outside of his relationship with Stamets, so we’ll get a better sense of who he is, where he’s going, and how his time in the network has changed him.

“Last season, it was fair to say that Culber was very much in service of Stamets’ ambition. But this season, we really get to see who Hugh Culber is, why he does what he does,” Cruz said. “I want people to imagine what it’s like to have gone through all of that, and to now be back where it all started. That experience has affected how he feels about his life, career, relationship, and who he is. We will learn there are consequences for him, as there should be.”

https://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-discoverys-stars-reveal-more-about-last-nigh-1832649670