Star Trek - Discovery - 2.06: The Sound of Thunder

[Cathbad]

Creating topic, remember you
can only discuss this episode
inside this topic. Reviews of
the episode are encouraged
WARNING!! There will be spoilers!
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First Shown 2/21/19 (Th.) 8:30 PM CBSAA[/QUOTE]

 

[Cathbad]

I didn't care for this episode. Not that it wasn't done well - it was. But i don't like where the storyline has gone.

This was over the top. Way over the top. They literally sad it was a toss-up whether this would be a violation of the Prime Directive!! Could there be a more obvious violation?

Besides that, what was a unique and completely different race within the Star Trek Universe, now threatens to be "just one of thousands". I am highly disappointed.

This felt too much like TOS, where absolutely everything was solved within an hour. This is not Discovery's way. This extremely complex situation should have reprocussions that would take decades to solve! An inquiry into the actions of the Discovery crew should be immediately began. And...

Gads! I sound like one of those complainers I have so often complained about!!

 

[Cathbad]

Another thing I have become worried about: Spock.

Where the hey has Spock found the resources to avoid Star Fleet's best for so long?! When did he get the knowledge/training he'd need - so early in his career?

Now, they have said the "Red Angel' is a living being, in an armoured suit, with the ability to time travel.
Two things:

1) Are we now doing Anime in the Star Trek Universe??

2) I fear the Angel might be Spock. So badly do I hate this idea, it might be a game-ender for me. If the Red Angel turns out to be Spock - which would change literally everything we've ever known, I very likely will stop watching Discovery. I think there would be a lot of fans leaving with me.

 

[ctg]

Truly wonderful episode. I liked it a lot as it expanded the knowledge of the main objective and it proudly went into roots of the original Star Trek. It was often that the Enterprise crew didn't care about the Prime Rules as they saw at front of them oppressed people and they couldn't let it stand.

Maybe Roddenberry was a pacifist at heart? Not that anything like it happened in the episode. Although it ended in peace, it surely went through violence to reach the end.

I didn't care for this episode. Not that it wasn't done well - it was. But i don't like where the storyline has gone.

This was over the top. Way over the top. They literally sad it was a toss-up whether this would be a violation of the Prime Directive!! Could there be a more obvious violation?

How many times Picard or Kirk has saved a civilisation from a doom? The Prime Directive is a guideline, not a hard set of rules that has to be obeyed to the bitter ending. When Pike ordered Saru and Burnham into the expedition mission, he knew he was bending the guidelines. In that moment he was just like the Cpt Pike from the The Original Series.

They could not have left Kelpians to be destroyed in a genocide. It would have gone against all their believes. Besides the point Ba'ul had already shown technology that allowed them to form communications with the advanced species that StarFleet presents. In other words they'd already advanced to the point, where StarFleet could have established diplomatic relations with the species, if they'd chosen so. But Ba'ul didn't because they were hiding the most terrifying crimes, because if it would have been case on Earth, the Ba'ul would have committed a crime against humanity.

That is something that doesn't go well with the StarFleet ideology and therefore, they could have left the Ba'ul alone to wipe out Kelpian species. Although, I do have to admit that being last of the species opens up certain angles in the storywise, but as they'd already explored some of it with the Old Spock in the JJA's universe, maybe it was wise to not let Ba'ul to do the deed.

This is not Discovery's way. This extremely complex situation should have reprocussions that would take decades to solve!

Sure, they have material to explore now that Kelpian's are freed. But the way they reached the point, through Sphere's Archieves felt cheating. In the same time, it gave them opportunity to expand the roles of the characters, as not everything is centred in the bridge.

Thing is, would they be able to do the series and not advance the long arc plot by letting the whole thing stall to a point, where the story isn't moving forward?

Where the hey has Spock found the resources to avoid Star Fleet's best for so long?! When did he get the knowledge/training he'd need - so early in his career?

Training is easy, as he received all that tactical stuff at the StarFleet Academy. The resourcers question is difficult, but if he's travelling alone, with a vessel that has a working replicator, he's good for a long time. If he can maintain the dilithium crystals, there's no need for the additional resources, and if he needs, he can always do a spy mission to a Federation Space and find a place where he can get the stuff.

Spock is extremely resourceful and there aren't many things that makes him to stop, or even back away.

1) Are we now doing Anime in the Star Trek Universe??

What? Anime in the ST universe, what are you talking about and how does that relate to the Star Trek?

2) I fear the Angel might be Spock. So badly do I hate this idea, it might be a game-ender for me. If the Red Angel turns out to be Spock - which would change literally everything we've ever known, I very likely will stop watching Discovery. I think there would be a lot of fans leaving with me.

It crossed my mind that the Red Angel has given or Spock has stolen their technology, while I watched it. However, Spock would have no knowledge of Kelpians or care to save an unknown Earth village from the horrors of a nuclear war. So, I don't think Spock is the angel, but he might have made to the Angel's place and is in a need for a rescue that Discovery, in it's unique way, can provide.

What is that you want to see in the ST or in these episodes? What would make your heart beating and glue your bottom on the seat?

 

[Anthoney]

I mostly enjoyed this episode. I never did like Saru much but I like him a little better now. They completely screwed General Order 1. They beat it like a red headed step child.

Now the Red Angle makes me think of Babylon 5. A dude in a space suit floating through time. He is the One. No. He is not the one.

I wasn't a fan of the bad guy race. I mean it did kind of look like a skinny Predator covered in oil. Wouldn't it be hard to make sophisticated technology while your are dripping black goo? Why would a race of black goo people design their ships with clean dry rooms and corridors?

I second the complaint about transporting through shields. It's not as bad as transporting across the galaxy like they do in the Kelvin movies but it's still irritating.

 

[Vladd67]

The idea that Spock may be the angel and therefore guided his younger self to find Burnham brings to mind an episode of the animated series where Spock has to travel back in time to rescue himself from the Vulcan desert whilst claiming to be a distant cousin.

 

[Dave]

They literally sad it was a toss-up whether this would be a violation of the Prime Directive!! Could there be a more obvious violation?

They completely screwed General Order 1. They beat it like a red headed step child.

I don't agree. The Kelpians are still in the dark about Star Fleet and the Galaxy. All that happened was that they were given a hand to reach puberty. The Ba'ul are already Warp capable, and in contact with Star Fleet. Now you can certainly debate the ethics of what happened, but it isn't a violation of the Prime Directive. And it isn't even as if they pretended to be Gods, made a book about Mobs into a Holy text, or re-created the Roman Empire! That kind of messing around was clearly de rigueur during this same period. That much more anal kind of sticking to General Order Number One was only seen in TNG and afterwards.

Gads! I sound like one of those complainers I have so often complained about!

We'll get you there yet!

Now, they have said the "Red Angel' is a living being, in an armoured suit, with the ability to time travel.

I wondered about that throwaway from Ash. Is that really going to be it? Or, is that just what Ash thinks? I'm not convinced on the Time Traveller, but I don't think it is Spock either. We'll have to see.
The kind of conflict of interest that Saru had regarding his planet and his sister must have been far more common than we have previously seen. Kirk had Sam, his brother, Geordi had his mother, Michael has her step-brother, Spock, however, an officer must have been faced with a threat to his own homeworld more often than this. (think Alderaan in Star Wars.) I can believe they would break an order to save it. It is also believable that it would focus Michael's attention on how to find Spock. it makes sense that the place to begin is home on Vulcan.

I mean it did kind of look like a skinny Predator covered in oil. Wouldn't it be hard to make sophisticated technology while your are dripping black goo? Why would a race of black goo people design their ships with clean dry rooms and corridors?

You have a point. Why would the adult stage Kelpians even compete with them for black goo habitats when they can live alone on the beaches?

second the complaint about transporting through shields. It's not as bad as transporting across the galaxy like they do in the Kelvin movies but it's still irritating.

As we saw a few weeks ago, the USS Discovery has all kinds of neat new technology that the USS Enterprise turned off because it didn't work properly. It is a poor excuse, but it works. We saw that both shield and cloaking technologies improved over time in tandem with the ability to fire through them/beam through them and detect them. It was a kind of arms race and depending upon what stage they are at then I can believe it is possible.

 

[Anthoney]

I don't agree.

There are 2 parts to the prime directive. The first part has to do with pre warp societies. The second part has to do with not interfering in the cultural evolution of any societies. This more closely relates to an episode of Enterprise named Dear Doctor. It's where Dr. Phlox refuses to cure a disease that was going to all of one species (there are 2 on the planet). Phlox flat out refused because he people already followed this type of rule.

 

[Dave]

There are 3 answers to that. The first is that I don't consider Enterprise to be canon. (No, I joke there, but there are many contradictions in Star Trek. Too many! That was the ENT take on it. Where there is uncertainty, I'll stick with the original series, which I know the best. In that, as I say, it didn't seem that anyone obeyed the General Order unless it suited them to do so.)
The second answer would be that the 'interference in the cultural evolution of any society does not apply to those who are post-Warp. Dr. Phlox's people may interpret that differently, but it isn't Starfleet policy. The problem here is that while the Ba'al are Warp Capable the Kelpians are not. However, I saw the Kelpian's change as a growth to adulthood. Think about an imaginary society where one tribe kept another tribe as slave children and castrated them all or murdered them at puberty. Would you still not intervene if you could? Whatever is the case, it does not sufficiently warrant the Inquiry demanded by @Cathbad
The third answer is that is doesn't matter and does anyone else actually care?

 

[Anthoney]

I will give you that every Captain has broken the Prime Directive more than once. It's a plot shield/device which allows the writer to put them in unusual predicaments.

The case on Enterprise involved a more advanced race that used a less evolved race as laborers. The more advanced race was the one getting sick. This lead Archer to think about having a Prime Directive.

Yes, there are others that care but that doesn't mean you have to.

 

[Dave]

I meant anyone other than us. @Cathbad thinks worrying about this too much spoils our enjoyment

 

[Glaysher]

Now the Red Angle makes me think of Babylon 5. A dude in a space suit floating through time. He is the One. No. He is not the one.

I thought of Babylon 5 but instead I thought something in an encounter suit and people think it's an angel. It must be Kosh.

 

[ctg]

I thought of Babylon 5 but instead I thought something in an encounter suit and people think it's an angel. It must be Kosh.

Thing about Kosh is that he was in the suit for a long time, before it was revealed that he was one of the angels. With the Red ******* we have seen wings for a while now. That recent encounter just confirmed that she has some sort of wings. I wonder what they really do?

 

[Anthoney]

It must be Kosh.

Oh, I had that thought as well.

It's a Vorlon.