Resources/tips on how to write in omniscient, please.

[Phyrebrat]

I've really got a bee in my Eggster bonnet about writing in omni.

It really looks simple on the page, but in execution, it's much more difficult. I write horror and weird fiction and I've always been most affected/impressed by epistolary and omni novels. Epistolary I can do, Omni is like trying to seperate sand grains.

Having Stephen King as my favourite author hasn't helped because he seems to mix close third with omni and I can't see the trick.

On the usually-excellent Writing Excuses podcast, they've been going on about omni at odds with what I see here. They do not have the hang ups with POV and headhopping that are a constant white noise here in Chrons and in the latest episode Brandon Sanderson or Dan Wells (I never know who is who) were quite happy to talk about writers jumping out of narrator comments to then dip into 3rd person thoughts. The end result is I'm just flummoxed by it all.

For Harebrain's recent Birthday Project, I tried to write my submission in omni but by the second scene I realised I was back in my usual third (which @Dan Jones tells me is usually super-close in my stuff, so that's the opposite of what I'm attempting).

So I'm asking if anyone has any links to good resources and what have you? I really want to write my horror so the characters can't see things that the reader is privvy to, but it's going nowhere.

All because of the bloody Elementals!

pH

 

[HareBrain]

I think maybe you're trying too hard to define omni, when in reality, because it allows so much freedom, any set of "rules" would be unhelpfully vague.

I think it helps to begin a piece with a "narrator as fireside storyteller" voice, and to return to that frequently enough that the whole thing feels roughly consistent, but within that, you can zoom in and out of close-ish third -- or not; it's up to you. When you do, I think the trick is to make sure it's not so sudden as to be jarring. Perhaps, to remind yourself that you're still in omni mode even when "zoomed in" it might help to think that the usual "show, don't tell" doesn't apply so much here. And omni narrator can even directly address the reader.

I'm not sure if that helps?

 

[Brian G Turner]

The usual comment I've seen is that omni is like watching a film - so you can zoom in and out whenever you want to.

It doesn't matter if this means some of the POV will look like Third Person Limited (close third) - the designations we give to POV are more of a technical distinction for aspiring writers rather than a practical one for established ones.

Lots of successful writers will write in a close third for much of the book, only to pull out to omni to reveal something the character doesn't know (and many think nothing of head-hopping, either!).

So perhaps it's best to think less in terms of POV rules, and simply whatever works for your story.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Hello boyos,

Thank you for your replies.

I'm not sure if that helps?

Is it as simple as that? I didn’t know I was allowed to mix n match. Will try out your (and The Boss’) method.

So perhaps it's best to think less in terms of POV rules, and simply whatever works for your story.

that’s the point of my question; so often I’ve been writing on the Wip and been stymied by the inability to show stuff happening that the character doesn’t see or know of.

Howevah... I’m not restarting the 4th rewrite of 100k+ words again in a new POV (this started off as first person in 2013 !!), this is for new projects.

May put something up on Crits to be sure.

Thanks

pH

 

[tinkerdan]

I offer this just as an interesting read.
The 7 Narrator Types: and You Thought There Were Only Two!

When I finished it I began to think that there are more than 7 because it falls short of covering all that I've seen.
I think any attempt to try to explain what works in Omni and how it works might fall short.
I'd advise looking at some Omni Narrations that you enjoyed and delving into what it is you enjoyed.

For me the Omni that I have enjoyed are mostly those that have a narrator that interjects just the right amount of their own tone and voice(subjective). There are a few that can seem to pull back(objective)and still do a fair job and I really have to find what it is they do so well.

In my novels I had some things I wanted the reader to know that the main character wouldn't know and that set the template for how I told the story. Did it work? Does it work? It worked for me and a handful of readers; however I've not sold enough yet to have any more conviction about it than my own personal feelings on the matter and they are prejudiced. I used first present tense for the main character and then third present tense for other characters to inform the reader. In drafts it was a bit more of mixed until I decided to stick with present tense in the first person and then I decided that present tense in the rest would possibly lessen the impact of the changes to third person.

The only time I came close to omni is in my earlier unpublished papers and I was having trouble getting those to work; possibly because it lacked the closeness of close third.

Going back to the above sited article there is the mention of Third omni(peeking into the character heads and being as subjective as you want with each character)which might be helpful or even the third limited as outlined in the article.

 

[Boneman]

I like the camera analogy: 1st person, the camera is in the eyes. 3rd person, the camera is just above the shoulder. Omni, the camera is a drone floating ten feet above the main character, with a 360 degree lens.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Thanks all. I'm plugging away at a little piece as we speak

For the record, I've read bags of books in omni, and how-to stuff; I know what omni is, I'm just learning now that a lot of what I have read on Chrons about POV - proscriptive stuff over the years - is actually preference, or, more likely - taking the replies above into account - wrong.

Thanks to all at the Genius bar

pH

 

[The Big Peat]

Well we seem to have a breakthrough on the main issue so I shan't echo too much (other than to thumbs up the camera analogy).

What I shall say though is, somewhat tangentially, is that the two things I think Omniscient does very well are Humour and Suspense. And the Suspense part in particular is very important to Horror and why you want to do it. And I think if you're showing these things the character clearly can never see, never know, it makes it easier to show the camera panning in and out - or in this case the camera showing the character, then switching to the shadow advancing in the corridor, then back - and eases the transition. Let the fact that you'll be using it for what it's best suited give your extra confidence.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

What I've always advised is if you are describing a scene from a certain character's viewpoint is to pull out into a more neutral distant view for a paragraph or so before going inside a different character's head. And pay close attention to how you use your beats and dialogue tags. This way, it won't have the jarring effect that head-hopping has for so many readers. It is how most old-time writers used to do it, when omni was commonly used.

And I think also it is good, if you are using omni, to be omniscient and make this kind of change fairly often, and, in terms of the book as a whole, begin as you mean to go on. Because it can also be jarring, for instance, to be reading along for almost all of a chapter in one person's close viewpoint and have settled in comfortably, only to be landed in someone else's head in the last few lines. Establish the omniscient viewpoint early on, is what I am saying, whether it the beginning of the book or near the beginning of a chapter.

And yes, establishing a distinctive narrator's voice is another way this can work, because the narrator can come in as the distant view whenever needed.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Excellent advice @Teresa Edgerton , thank you! I’m trying it as we spe— er, type.

pH

 

[The Bluestocking]

Maybe try reading fairy tales to see how it's done? Those are usually written in omni ("Once upon a time...") and sometimes even break the fourth wall to address the reader.

And as someone who writes comic fantasy, I would agree with @The Big Peat - omni (or as close to that as possible) is very useful for writing humour. There are certain things/scenes/tics that just become funnier when seen from the outside as opposed to it all being internal.

The nice thing about omni is also that you can paint "the big picture", as it were instead of being limited to a single person's POV.