New Statesman article on inspiration

[The Big Peat]

Found this article musing on the film Yesterday and the way so many creatives seem unsure about where their ideas come from, or believe they come from "elsewhere" - Why Paul McCartney couldn’t believe that he’d actually written “Yesterday” - and was wondering if anybody else had stories like this, or particularly agreed or disagreed with this notion of inspiration.

I've got to say that while I do sort of agree with this sort of premise, I feel like a constant press on thinking about ideas and asking questions takes you to that sort of "elsewhere" a lot more often than otherwise might happen.

 

[sknox]

I liked Cohen's line best, quoted in the article--if I knew where good songs came from, I'd go there more often.

Songs are different from novels, though. I can't imagine having an entire novel arrive fully-formed, the way some songs have to composers. Even a painter, who might have a clear vision of the painting, still has to execute the brush strokes. But a song can come complete with melody and even lyrics. Rare, but it happens. Maybe the writing equivalent would be a poem?

For us, it's ideas or scenes. And I do agree that the more one lives in the story, the more likely it is ideas will arrive as if by magic.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I've had whole scenes arrive that way at times. And characters who seemed to write their own dialogue whenever they appeared. But certainly never a whole book appear out of nowhere at once. They always come in bits and pieces. Some pieces seemingly without thought or effort, but others that take more conscious work.

 

[The Big Peat]

Yeah, a whole book all at once would be quite incredible. I've had a short story come more or less all at once, but it was based off a prior idea (and I don't think it was that strong an idea so haven't pursued it). And only once. I can't imagine a human brain comprehending all that information in one go (although maybe you could get beginning and ending in one moment, and wonder at the murky middle?).

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I've heard of the entire plot of a book coming at once ... or at least over the course of several hours ... but I don't know how long turning it into words took the author.

 

[tegeus-Cromis]

I once woke up with an entire sonnet in my head. I just had to write it down. This was at a time when I was writing a lot of poetry.

 

[HareBrain]

The Yesterday story reminded me of something that happened when I was nine. On holiday in Guernsey in spring 1976, I had a dream in which there came to me the lyrics and tune of a pop song. When I woke, I remembered them well enough to write them down. I didn't recognise them at all. I was going to become a pop star!

Imagine my shock when a few months later, I heard the exact song on Top of the Pops -- It's So Nice to Have You Home Again by the New Seekers**. And it had only just been released. I couldn't believe it. But countering my disappointment that it was not going to make my fortune was the near-certain knowledge that I could predict the future, because there was no way I could have heard it at the date I dreamed it.

This mystery stuck with me for decades, until the days of the internet, when it was mostly answered. It turned out that the version on TOTP wasn't the original -- the song had been released a year before, by Kenny, but hadn't been a big hit. I must have heard it and subconsciously memorised the lyrics. What I still don't understand is why I dreamed it in such detail, when it had made so little conscious impression on me that I didn't even recognise it as an existing tune.

** OK, you show me a nine-year-old with decent music taste.

 

[CTRandall]

I feel like a constant press on thinking about ideas and asking questions takes you to that sort of "elsewhere" a lot more often than otherwise might happen.

I agree with this. I don't think inspiration comes from nowhere or all of a sudden. I think it bubbles away as we wash the dishes, walk the dog, think about what we'll have for dinner and sit in front of a blank page trying to write something, anything, even just a sentence, please please please please please...

And then, somewhere deep in the brain/psyche, a connection is made and it all comes to the surface. In other words, just because we can't always consciously follow our creative work doesn't we're not doing it subconsciously. The conscious effort is an absolutely necessary part of the process, however.

On a side note, one of the best lessons in music composition I ever had happened when my advisor looked over one of my pieces and said, "What is your inspiration for this piece? Don't tell me now. Come back in a week. I want to be able to hear your inspiration in what you've written." I walked out of the lesson fuming, wondering what kind of mumbo-jumbo he was spouting. But I went home, dwellt in the sounds and states of mind that spawned the piece and rewrote it. It is still one of the pieces I am most pleased with. Best lesson I ever had.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Awww!!! I wish we still had access to our Chrons blog; I did a long one about inspiration and the so-called muse.

Whilst noting it’s different for everyone, I’d say that whatever you apply effort to consciously will at some point filter to your subconscious and begin to throw things out, conflate ideas to create new ones, etc etc etc. This can give a sense of the magical. But then I also have this half belief in that meditation helps immensely with what I think of as putting up your aerial and downloading what is receivable.

Not sure I agree with some of the assertions here re music and novel writing:

But a song can come complete with melody and even lyrics. Rare, but it happens. Maybe the writing equivalent would be a poem?

Songs come with these things, true I’m sure, but not fully formed. I’ve written and produced many songs since 1994 in my home studio. The hook may come fully formed, a couplet, theme or some lyrics, or a bassline - even the harmony... but fully formed???

For us, it's ideas or scenes.

And for musicians it’s musical motifs, shorter melodies (maybe the chorus, verse or variations). Same thing, different medium. It may be that our specialty happens over a longer period of time, whereas a 3.5 min song will require far less wrangling.

I thought some of my challenge entries or shorts had come fully formed but realise the gestalt- or overview - is what’s fully formed, not the details. Not the nuts and bolts.

pH

 

[sknox]

>but fully formed???
I hear you, but that's what Sir Paul said happened to him with Yesterday, and I'll not gainsay him.

 

[Phyrebrat]

>but fully formed???
I hear you, but that's what Sir Paul said happened to him with Yesterday, and I'll not gainsay him.

but I’d wager it’s been sexed up. Yesterday follows the same very simple chord progression/melody which just repeats. (Its melodic pattern is much like the chorus to Mull of Kintyre however that song’s pattern changes in the verse.)

Compare it to Bridge Over Troubled Water, say, (Or Bohemian Rhapsody*, even!!) or some other massive song with a complex progression - those things could never be beheld in one moment or a dream or fugue state or whatever. I claim BS on much of this as I suppose it’s the media or savvy management interpreting and reporting on perhaps the hook or maybe a riff, and intimating it’s the entire work.

Anyway. I’m sorry for dragging this off topic. I do want to say, though, that I think the comparison of novels to songs is a fair one (I even compare it to dance - but then I’m partisan/biased/marginally obsessive ). You just have to find the common denominator. For us that might be a character or a scene or a even a skeleton, for a song it might be the memorable motif.

pH

* I’m no fan of the Beatles so I apologise I can’t stick to more relevant tunes.

 

[The Big Peat]

>but fully formed???
I hear you, but that's what Sir Paul said happened to him with Yesterday, and I'll not gainsay him.

Double reading the article - it looks like he got the melody, but maybe not the lyrics.

I also point out that this is something of a medium thing; you can come up with a whole song when it's pretty much just one instrument easily enough. I'm going to guess very very few musicians realise in a flash how the entire song's going to go - including the bass, including the drums etc.etc. The more moving parts, the more unlikely you are to get everything at once. Admittedly it's been a while since I've written music and I suck at it so I may be wrong, but that's what it seems to be.

 

[The Bluestocking]

I once woke up with an entire sonnet in my head. I just had to write it down. This was at a time when I was writing a lot of poetry.

I've had the whole poem arrive at once in my brain and then all I had to do is write it down. This was back in high school, college, and grad school when I was still writing poetry.

Never had a whole novel arrive though. But there are scenes that just unfold in technicolour action in my brain and then I just transcribe/describe what's happening.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Yeah, a whole book all at once would be quite incredible. I've had a short story come more or less all at once, but it was based off a prior idea (and I don't think it was that strong an idea so haven't pursued it). And only once. I can't imagine a human brain comprehending all that information in one go (although maybe you could get beginning and ending in one moment, and wonder at the murky middle?).

I've had a whole novel with multiple scenes pop into my head in an instant.

It has since proven to be not excellent and require to be altered substantially, but at the time it was more-or-less fully formed.

 

[Steve Harrison]

I had an entire feature screenplay come to me some years ago during the ten minutes I was drying the dishes. It took me a week to write & edit and led to an offer (which I stupidly turned down), interest from multiple producers and two Hollywood meetings.

Weirdest writing experience I've ever had!

 

[The Bluestocking]

I had an entire feature screenplay come to me some years ago during the ten minutes I was drying the dishes. It took me a week to write & edit and led to an offer (which I stupidly turned down), interest from multiple producers and two Hollywood meetings.

Weirdest writing experience I've ever had!

Did you manage to sell it eventually?

 

[Steve Harrison]

Did you manage to sell it eventually?

I wish! I got an offer from the second producer I approached, a guy in the UK, but by then I had a lot of interest from the US and turned it down mistakenly thinking I would get something bigger. But the interest petered out, so it didn't sell. I did get to develop another project with a producer on the strength of that script, but that also came to nothing.

I had a few close calls with other scripts, but eventually I gave up screenwriting and turned to novels. I'm adapting the script in question at the moment. I enjoy scriptwriting, so I'm sure I'll get back to it at some stage.

 

[millymollymo]

I've had story ideas hit out of nowhere - the basic plot arch and the twist. But the inspiration is usually a long way from the kitchen sink. The writing up takes far longer. I think it's important to remember that your brain needs that 'empty space' to play with for things like 'sudden bolts of inspiration and the time to deal with them' to happen. Mundane stresses pressures will get in the way.
(It also helps to have a notepad to jot it down on)

 

[Venusian Broon]

I think it's important to remember that your brain needs that 'empty space' to play with for things like 'sudden bolts of inspiration and the time to deal with them' to happen. Mundane stresses pressures will get in the way.

I have been recently reading a bit on neurology, brain states and how the mind works and this is essentially true, I believe (as you put it, whatever 'empty space' is. @Phyrebrat mentions Meditation above, and although I've never done this, I believe this is one of the states that would qualify.)

However possibly this is a topic to bore other people with in a pub over a nice drink

 

[The Bluestocking]

I've had story ideas hit out of nowhere - the basic plot arch and the twist. But the inspiration is usually a long way from the kitchen sink. The writing up takes far longer. I think it's important to remember that your brain needs that 'empty space' to play with for things like 'sudden bolts of inspiration and the time to deal with them' to happen. Mundane stresses pressures will get in the way.
(It also helps to have a notepad to jot it down on)

The writing up of story/scene ideas (even if they strike like lightning) always feels like it's taking ages.

The best I've done before - and this is me typing non-stop like a speeding fiend on the keyboard as the story/scene flowed from my brain to my fingers to the screen - was 5,000 words in 4 hours.

I had a horrible migraine after that. My muse was laughing at me.