Nearly finished with first novel, I need to escape my dungeon

[Josh K]

As the title says. I'm nearly finished with the second draft of my epic fantasy (255k words), with only a final 40k or so of tense changes to go, which should be done in 2-3 weeks (first draft was first person present, second draft is third person past). However, besides that, the work is in a great spot and I think it's enjoyable to read, the grammar, punctuation, and spelling for the most part are fine, and (I hope) the characters and plot are engaging, powerful, and fun. I definitely think a draft 3 will do the work good, but I think the novel's in a position where feedback will be very useful and the reader won't have to slog through a morass of crap - I've tried to streamline the work, and yes, before you tell me 'but it's 255k words!', I've done quite a bit of cutting in the second draft.

Ideally, I'd love to find an online group of like-minded writers in a similar position to mine, or writers in person (I'm in the Minneapolis area) that I can engage with. Maybe sharing chapters back and forth and getting through each other's work. Ideally, I'd like to be helping with writing that is similarly polished to mine (minor edits needed, looking more for big picture stuff or small details that were missed). I'm doing this now because I know it can take a while to read a manuscript, especially one of the length of mine, and I don't want to get held up in the feedback process. I know it's very likely there are things I didn't do right, or things I need to re-examine or expand on, or reduce, but it's hard to know all of those things when one is working in a vacuum.

Some background on the story. This follows two MC, one is a female kenthai (think cat person), other is a human male. Their paths diverge about 40k into the novel. Kenthai are the dominant race in this region of the world (which you'll learn about why in later books - this is a series), and the humans are discriminated against. The magic is a hard system, so there are a lot of rules to it, though not everything is explicitly stated in the novel. I really tried to treat this as a character driven novel - as in, the priority is on character development and interactions first. The female kenthai arc is pretty comparable to many of your traditional sword and sorcery novels - a lot of fighting, a lot of surviving by the skin of her teeth, and a lot of struggle. The human male arc is actually a bit of a romance/growing experience. I'm not a huge romance reader (95% of the novels I read are fantasy/sci-fi), but I especially found the man's arc compelling.

Anyways, if anyone is interested let me know. Maybe the stars will align and I'll find a few people to work with.

 

[logan_run]

Good luck

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'd love to find an online group of like-minded writers in a similar position to mine

Once you've reached 30 posts, you'll be able to put up your first 1500 words in the Critiques section. However, the warning is that you will almost receive a lot of criticisms about it - which is normal, and once you get over the initial shock, potentially extremely useful.

 

[Josh K]

Criticism isn't an issue - it's what I'm looking for. I feel like I've been in a bubble for the last year, and I need some people to pop it. However, I'm not sure how useful 1500 word critiques will be. If people read the start of a novel and like it, will they sometimes offer to beta read or get more involved?

 

[Brian G Turner]

However, I'm not sure how useful 1500 word critiques will be. If people read the start of a novel and like it, will they sometimes offer to beta read or get more involved?

Trust, any problems with your story will be very clear in the opening words.

One of the most common mistakes is to not actually start the story with anything happening, but instead some form of explanation of the setting, characters, or further plot developments - rather than just getting on with it.

If you want to make sure you avoid the most obvious problems, make sure you read Wonderbook by Jeff Vandermeer first - it deals with everything from the most basic to advanced writing issues. Additionally or alternatively, watch as many of Brandon Sanderson's writing lectures on YouTube.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Criticism isn't an issue - it's what I'm looking for. I feel like I've been in a bubble for the last year, and I need some people to pop it. However, I'm not sure how useful 1500 word critiques will be. If people read the start of a novel and like it, will they sometimes offer to beta read or get more involved?

You’d be surprised how useful 1500 words can be....

 

[Venusian Broon]

Criticism isn't an issue - it's what I'm looking for. I feel like I've been in a bubble for the last year, and I need some people to pop it. However, I'm not sure how useful 1500 word critiques will be. If people read the start of a novel and like it, will they sometimes offer to beta read or get more involved?

I agree with you, I personally don't see the usefulness of 1500 word critiques when you have a full story. I think you need beta readers doing a 'content edit' of sorts rather than nitpick a small sample. It could be that something around about the 50k level is wrong and changing it actually requires you totally change the start - why spend weeks and weeks going over a few sentences that will just get cut out anyway?

Don't get me wrong, 1500 word critiquing can have its place, perhaps if you want to test if your style works or if you are having difficulty with a scene. But I personally don't like critiquing small bits of other's work - I need to see the full story.

With regards to beta readers, 'real world' writer's groups are one avenue - although they will be a long term thing - first to find the right group, some expertise in your genre is required and it will probably take a long time for someone to get through your story even if you have the perfect group.

With regards to this forum I would say: get yourself known, stimulate discussions, add to other discussions, talk with people and if you get on (and also understand where other people sit) you can possibly get people involved here. There is a writer's group section that some use. But generally though the more you put in here, the more you get out. If you get to the point that you are willing to beta read someone elses novel, they will (should!) beta read yours. I can't guarentee that you will find willing readers, definitely not straight away, but you have to start somewhere.

On this forum I have beta read quite a few novels - I can read real fast - but before I get your hopes up that I'm volunteering ...I'm writing SF and not really that knowledgeable on epic fantasy, so I don't think I'd be a good person for such a service.

 

[Josh K]

I actually plan to turn this fantasy to a sci-fi + fantasy series in the end. However, that's not happening for at least a few books. I'm starting small and then I'll expand outward. However, I've placed some of the hints in this first book, so it is clear there are some sci-fi elements, they're just not explicit in this work. I think I have some cool ideas here, but we'll see how that goes. That's a few years down the road.

I agree, 1500 words can give an idea of how an author writes in general. I think it's useful. I also think it's great for the early part of a novel, as that is the most critical part, and having that run through with a fine-tooth comb is important. However, for a novel of the length I've written, a reader isn't going to get a very good feel for it just from 1500 words, or they'll be out of their depth because they'll read somewhere in the middle where the setting and magic system are treated as a matter of course, and they'll get confused. Also, they'll miss any larger issues that may be present, just as Venusian Broon said. For me, that's a really big deal. With the completion of draft 2, I'm at a point where I feel like the plot is how I want it (without feedback) - if I get feedback saying 'so and so doesn't work,' etc, I need to fix it, and I don't want to have finely edited work that's going to get trashed.

Brian, I'm not sure if you'd feel I don't go right into the story. I actually started at a later point initially, but then I added to the front as I felt there was a lot missing from a context point of view. I also felt I needed the reader to get to know the characters better, as well as the relationship between the two MC, so that was a main driver for the way I started. Also, something that stuck with me was 'don't start with an action scene, because your readers won't care.' The first chapter ends with them agreeing on a trip that could change all their futures, for either good or bad. I think I put a lot of mystery and interesting things in the first chapter, introduce some issues and things that make the reader think, but maybe I'm wrong. This is the problem with being in a vacuum - I really don't know what works and what doesn't, and I need feedback.

I'd be happy to beta read for others. And by that, I mean I'll read through and give general feedback. I'm not sure I have the time to do line edits, and I'd prefer to be reading books that are somewhat polished so that I'm not stumbling over grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, etc. issues. I've got a significant amount of experience reading fantasy novels, and I think I'd be a perfect reader for these types of works.

I actually watched all of the Sanderson lectures already. I haven't read the book, however, and I'll keep it in mind.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

However, I'm not sure how useful 1500 word critiques will be. If people read the start of a novel and like it, will they sometimes offer to beta read or get more involved?

The answer to your question is yes, sometimes they will. If they like what they see and get an idea of what it would be like to critique your work, if they feel they are the right person to critique your particular piece of writing, etc. It's not just what you can learn from a 1500 word critique, but what the people doing the critiques can learn about you and your writing.

Also, do some critiques here yourself. Doing them can be a marvelous learning experience in itself. That will also, and more importantly for your stated goal, help you integrate into the community, show that you are willing to contribute. People are far more likely to volunteer to beta read for people they know. There are so many people here wanting beta readers, of course those in the potential pool of betas will be more eager to offer an exchange with someone they are beginning to know rather than someone they've had little contact with before. Critiquing, and also taking part in the discussions (and the monthly 75 word challenges and the quarterly 300 worders) are good ways to become known.