The Expanse - 4.09: Saeculum

[ctg]

Holden and Miller race to save Ilus. Murtry puts his endgame into motion, putting the Roci crew's lives at risk.

 

[ctg]

I am confused. Is Miller without hat same as Miller with hat? Is he against the Creators and for the protomolecule? What is his agenda? He claims that the hat belong to the investigator and not to him, even though it is his hat that makes the man. He even goes to claim that the protomolecule has fooled both Holden and him.

It upset me that Miller didn't give much more explanation to the place, other than it being a bomb that could wipe out every bit of protomolecule in vicinity. Does that mean it could shut down the Ring?

I feel that this is something that the books does better as they have a room for narrative exposition while the live action has to rely on images and dialogue. There must be more to everything that a jagged teeth sticking out from the ground or the purple hole in the floor, with no real explanation about anything.

What surprised me was Murtry going after Holden. It's like he has a deathwish, and even though Holden has a reputation it doesn't mean anything. After the man he has to go. Into the hole leading God's know where. At the end there was that glowing ball thingy and no real explanation about what it presented other than being a bomb.

WTF?

Also is the weird mechanoid a real representation of the Creators?

I would have targetted the corp ship with everything as soon as the light shuttle came in range. They were committing a murder, so why not to respond with kindness?

Luckily Alex figured out the railgun trick. It's just I thought that for a second, if the shrapnel attack had impected targetting sensors, then there would have been a chance of Alex hitting Barb and having a real bad day as result.

Bloody hell. I could have been able to pull the trigger and shoot my girl. I know that she could have done it, but not Amos. He is a bit too much of a romantic to be able to do it. What I don't get is why Murtry didn't finish the job?

At least Holden managed to finish it all and in his shoes I would have kicked Murtry off from the platform. Nobody would have missed him.

 

[Al Jackson]

I notice that one 'rating' service Parrot Analytics says The Expanse is the 7th most digital streamer.
They must have some independent was of finding because , I am not sure, Amazon rarely , do they?... let on to their numbers.

 

[Al Jackson]

I am confused. Is Miller without hat same as Miller with hat? Is he against the Creators and for the protomolecule? What is his agenda? He claims that the hat belong to the investigator and not to him, even though it is his hat that makes the man. He even goes to claim that the protomolecule has fooled both Holden and him.

I have not read the books so. Watching on Amazon on the After Show E9 Ty Frank says that even tho the proto molecule built Miller from Miller's mind that sometimes it looses control of him, what ever that means. So seems Miller with a hat is a more 'controlled' Miller. what ever that means.

 

[ctg]

Ty Frank says that even tho the proto molecule built Miller from Miller's mind that sometimes it looses control of him,

Yeah. The way he glitches suggest to me that Holden got infected at some point and he has some protomolecule running inside him. And that stored Miller's ghost inside it. But the way it glitches also suggest that the Ring is somehow behind all of it. And Miller without hat managed to escape the control, which suggest that the Creators are behind the bluestuff, and the planet was created as a backup device.

It's shame that none of the info could be downloaded

 

[Al Jackson]

I feel that this is something that the books does better as they have a room for narrative exposition while the live action has to rely on images and dialogue. There must be more to everything that a jagged teeth sticking out from the ground or the purple hole in the floor, with no real explanation about anything.

Yeah , welp , I don't know about the books , many times it depends on the imagination of the teleplay writer to meld in the narrative information. Screenwriting is hard to do, it can be done without dialog, Kubrick was a master of this. You know I like the elaboration but my sense of things is a general audience does not … across 4 seasons now I would have loved to seem more explained.

 

[Al Jackson]

Yeah. The way he glitches suggest to me that Holden got infected at some point and he has some protomolecule running inside him. And that stored Miller's ghost inside it. But the way it glitches also suggest that the Ring is somehow behind all of it. And Miller without hat managed to escape the control, which suggest that the Creators are behind the bluestuff, and the planet was created as a backup device.

It's shame that none of the info could be downloaded

The Ring ,I noticed it being labeled Sol Ring, not a reader, are there many Rings?

 

[ctg]

The Ring ,I noticed it being labeled Sol Ring, not a reader, are there many Rings?

Yes, 1300 of them, all over the galaxy. I talked about it in my earlier posts.

 

[Al Jackson]

Yes, 1300 of them, all over the galaxy. I talked about it in my earlier posts.

On the show it shows ships going through the Sol Ring but do they have to go through 'other rings' to get to planetary systems?

 

[Susan Boulton]

On the show it shows ships going through the Sol Ring but do they have to go through 'other rings' to get to planetary systems?

Yes, when you go through the Sol Ring you go into a sort of holding area, where the Rossi etc went last series. From there you can go through any of the other rings. It's in this area that Medina Station, formerly the Nauvoo/Behemoth, is stationed as a sort of customs/clearing house. A lot more detail and explanation of everything in the books. Also the series has condensed things, both events and characters, some of which have been blended, some omitted, and altered as with the three previous books. Also stuff from books 5 and 6 I feel have been dropped in. Book four only deals with events on New Terra. As to Miller, remember he is no longer Miller for large parts of the time, and Holden tends to forget this.

 

[Al Jackson]

Yes, when you go through the Sol Ring you go into a sort of holding area, where the Rossi etc went last series. From there you can go through any of the other rings. It's in this area that Medina Station, formerly the Nauvoo/Behemoth, is stationed as a sort of customs/clearing house. A lot more detail and explanation of everything in the books. Also the series has condensed things, both events and characters, some of which have been blended, some omitted, and altered as with the three previous books. Also stuff from books 5 and 6 I feel have been dropped in. Book four only deals with events on New Terra. As to Miller, remember he is no longer Miller for large parts of the time, and Holden tends to forget this.

Since solar system technology does not possess FTL all the Ring gates must be close enough in to a planetary system that it can be easily reached by planetary flight propulsion systems. Since in The Expanse they have fusion reactors (enhanced) and can do 1g flight (even more) transit times must be short within a new planetary system.
I wonder why is it just 1300 gates and not 13 million?
After all the 'Ring Makers' are Clarke-ian , probably Kardashev type III !

 

[Al Jackson]

Sidebar : The first episode was called 'New Terra'.... I don't know about the books... but on the show , as far as I can remember, they never call The Earth … Terra.
Terra is , I don't know about current SF prose usage, almost standard terminology in classic SF prose.
People of the Earth are called Terrans not Earthers (even tho Earther has occurred in some stories).....
'Earther' trips off the tongue awkwardly while 'Terran' has a nice tone to it.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Since solar system technology does not possess FTL all the Ring gates must be close enough in to a planetary system that it can be easily reached by planetary flight propulsion systems. Since in The Expanse they have fusion reactors (enhanced) and can do 1g flight (even more) transit times must be short within a new planetary system.
I wonder why is it just 1300 gates and not 13 million?
After all the 'Ring Makers' are Clarke-ian , probably Kardashev type III !

The thing is you don't find out much about the ring makers even by book 8. Just that they left a whole lot of stuff, nasty and otherwise when they were killed off, and well, not going to do any spoilers, but a hell of a lot of nasty stuff happens, because human beings like meddling with stuff they don't understand.

To be honest I like the books better than the series. Don't get me wrong the series is one of the best Sf shows I have watched, but as with all series detail is lost in adapting a book.

 

[Al Jackson]

The thing is you don't find out much about the ring makers even by book 8. Just that they left a whole lot of stuff, nasty and otherwise when they were killed off, and well, not going to do any spoilers, but a hell of a lot of nasty stuff happens, because human beings like meddling with stuff they don't understand.

To be honest I like the books better than the series. Don't get me wrong the series is one of the best Sf shows I have watched, but as with all series detail is lost in adapting a book.

Started reading SF in the 1953 , I understand the authors of these books are fans of classic sophisticated domesticated space opera , as it developed on the page starting in 1938. This show if the first realization of , the first close adaptation of all that prose SF I saw on the pages of Astounding, Galaxy and F&SF.... Star Trek borrowed that too tho only approximately, Firefly and BSG were closer .... but The Expanse is out and out almost the closest TV adaption of classic sophisticated space opera. Ideas and elements from Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke, Anderson, Niven, .... and about 100 other SF authors. Never seen anything like it on TV before.

 

[ctg]

I wonder why is it just 1300 gates and not 13 million?

Because they only had a few number of places where they could do their mega-projects or then the places were special on some other way. Even if you would be a 1300 system wide empire, you wouldn't want to expand without some sort of criteria. Would you?

Started reading SF in the 1953 , I understand the authors of these books are fans of classic sophisticated domesticated space opera , as it developed on the page starting in 1938. This show if the first realization of , the first close adaptation of all that prose SF I saw on the pages of Astounding, Galaxy and F&SF.... Star Trek borrowed that too tho only approximately, Firefly and BSG were closer .... but The Expanse is out and out almost the closest TV adaption of classic sophisticated space opera. Ideas and elements from Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke, Anderson, Niven, .... and about 100 other SF authors. Never seen anything like it on TV before.

As a NASA man, you should really check out Ronald D Moore's new show called For All Mankind. In it, you lost the space-race, but inconsequentially you kept going through seventies to develop a Moon Base. It's harder SF this this. I wrote a spoiler free review in the main threads about it. The only problem it's on AppleTV.

 

[Al Jackson]

As a NASA man, you should really check out Ronald D Moore's new show called For All Mankind. In it, you lost the space-race, but inconsequentially you kept going through seventies to develop a Moon Base. It's harder SF this this. I wrote a spoiler free review in the main threads about it. The only problem it's on AppleTV.

Apple TV , don't have, that's getting to be a problem, Foundation will be on Apple TV, so will have to get it, but there is getting to be so dammed much stuff on different streamers , can't subscribe to everything!
Don't have Disney Plus either so have not been able to watch Mandalorian.

 

[REBerg]

am confused. Is Miller without hat same as Miller with hat? Is he against the Creators and for the protomolecule? What is his agenda? He claims that the hat belong to the investigator and not to him, even though it is his hat that makes the man. He even goes to claim that the protomolecule has fooled both Holden and him.

the proto molecule built Miller from Miller's mind that sometimes it looses control of him, what ever that means. So seems Miller with a hat is a more 'controlled' Miller. what ever that means.

Miller did complain that the protomolecule was tearing him apart and rebuilding him. Maybe that's what was happening while Miller was absent.
The PM apparently needs Miller to achieve whatever it's trying to do. Miller keeps going rogue, and the PM resets him to the investigative Miller-with-a-hat version who was still doing its bidding.
The latest hatless Miller seems hellbent on wiping the PM off the planet. The PM must be getting a little irked with its creation.
Miller's animation of what looked like a broken down piece of alien mining equipment to physically reach the Mini Eye of Sauron was more humorous than suspenseful. I wondered how this lurching mechanical spider could carry on a conversation with Dr. Okoye, yet couldn't see her.

 

[Al Jackson]

Miller did complain that the protomolecule was tearing him apart and rebuilding him. Maybe that's what was happening while Miller was absent.
The PM apparently needs Miller to achieve whatever it's trying to do. Miller keeps going rogue, and the PM resets him to the investigative Miller-with-a-hat version who was still doing its bidding.
The latest hatless Miller seems hellbent on wiping the PM off the planet. The PM must be getting a little irked with its creation.
Miller's animation of what looked like a broken down piece of alien mining equipment to physically reach the Mini Eye of Sauron was more humorous than suspenseful. I wondered how this lurching mechanical spider could carry on a conversation with Dr. Okoye, yet couldn't see her.

Not a book reader.... from this episode , all the events on Ilus seemed to be added up to Miller finding another clue as The Investigator. Seems as has kind of sort of been stated on the show there is a mystery about the creators of the PM and some entity (I guess) they had battle with? All that story remains vague to me , I guess it is supposed to.

 

[REBerg]

Not a book reader.... from this episode , all the events on Ilus seemed to be added up to Miller finding another clue as The Investigator. Seems as has kind of sort of been stated on the show there is a mystery about the creators of the PM and some entity (I guess) they had battle with? All that story remains vague to me , I guess it is supposed to.

I've not read the books, either, although I'm looking forward to doing so. That leaves me free to theorize and be entertained without prejudice as I watch another version of a story.
What fun is it comparing each event of a movie or TV series with a book? When I do follow a visual experience with a written one, it generally serves as an expansion of what I've watched. The more it deviates from the film or series, the more interesting it becomes.

 

[Al Jackson]

I've not read the books, either, although I'm looking forward to doing so. That leaves me free to theorize and be entertained without prejudice as I watch another version of a story.
What fun is it comparing each event of a movie or TV series with a book? When I do follow a visual experience with a written one, it generally serves as an expansion of what I've watched. The more it deviates from the film or series, the more interesting it becomes.

There really is not much adaptation of true blue solid prose science fiction. Back in the 50's there was The Day the Earth Stood Still, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, War of the Worlds .... Forbidden was novelized.... This Island Earth changed the 2nd half of the Raymond F Jones novel in a way that sort of cheapened it (tho that novel is kind of 2nd rate SF ).
A completely , fairly good, SF horror was made of Campbell's Who Goes There... early 50s, but it changes the story.
No many major novels by SF writers adapted in the 50's and 60's , 2001 was an odd hybrid novel and screenplay written simultaneously.
Modern times we got a not very satisfying adaptation of Star Ship Troopers....
It is interesting that soon there will be a Foundation adaptation.... Dune by a director I really respect... supposedly Ringworld (tho little about that one has appeared lately)…. The Forever War....
The Expanse is , of course , about the story, but the big thing for me is world building and the verisimilitude …. all comes from classic SF , never seen it this faithful before.