Can Monsters Of The Id be disarmed by deprivation?

[Robert Zwilling]

Or do they have to be tamed? Is the Labors of Hercules an allegorical tale of mastering the subconscious?

 

[Narkalui]

Last night I dreamt I was a cop with a partner and a mentor (neither of them real people) and we were hunting the Joker. The dream culminated in the the Joker beheading a man with a bowie knife while my partner and my mentor held the victim down. I felt powerless and revolted, betrayed and then extremely vulnerable as I was witnessing this act, I was present, and when the gory deed was done the Joker's attention fell upon me...

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I think that the Joker was a monster of my id, and in my dreams the monster of my id can NEVER be tamed.

Are the Labours of Heracles an allegory for mastery of the subconscious? Sounds right to me!

 

[.matthew.]

The last nightmare I had (and the only dream of any kind I remember in the last year);

I took a picture of a polar bear outside my house. This angered the ton of raw muscle and even though I got the front door locked, it was still a polar bear. It broke through and chased me up the stairs, penning me in the bedroom. Tipping a dresser in front of the door I thought myself safe, but o no, it was still a polar bear. It tore at the panels, ripping them away and invading my space, muzzle first. A small camping axe drove it back but it stalked the hallway, up and down, back and forth. The worst part of it all... the police didn't believe me, and I knew I wouldn't survive long alone.

I'm not sure what that says about my Id. Although I hadn't used my polar bear coffee mug in a few days and was currently in caffeine withdrawal... so...

 

[BAYLOR]

Since its a part of us , it can in theory, be contained and controlled .

 

[Danny McG]

I saw this thread title and immediately thought of Forbidden Planet.
Er, ...that's it, I can't think of anything else to say. Sorry

 

[Ray Zdybrow]

The last nightmare I had (and the only dream of any kind I remember in the last year);

I took a picture of a polar bear outside my house. This angered the ton of raw muscle and even though I got the front door locked, it was still a polar bear. It broke through and chased me up the stairs, penning me in the bedroom. Tipping a dresser in front of the door I thought myself safe, but o no, it was still a polar bear. It tore at the panels, ripping them away and invading my space, muzzle first. A small camping axe drove it back but it stalked the hallway, up and down, back and forth. The worst part of it all... the police didn't believe me, and I knew I wouldn't survive long alone.

I'm not sure what that says about my Id. Although I hadn't used my polar bear coffee mug in a few days and was currently in caffeine withdrawal... so...

You are right to have nightmares about bears. I have had a few of them (the nightmares about bears, obvs), and although there are no bears in the wild in Britain I'd like to know where all the bears are, in zoos or whatever. I saw a dead (stuffed) polar bear a few months ago, f ing terrifying. My elderly neighbour told me that polar bears are "nice"

 

[Robert Zwilling]

I was thinking "I", consciousness, ego, were the smaller part of the whole mind. Control is totally possible, because a smaller force can easily control a larger force, a lot of electronic functions illustrates that. If the subconscious was the biggest component, it could be hard to contain. I think Jung was saying we need to become our subconscious self because that is the real power horse. Maybe the only thing we can do is ride it. For a single individual the conscious mind can hold back the subconscious, but as more people are added to the group, some sort of subconscious behavior emerges and becomes the dominant director.

I was looking for an explanation of each labor as a distinct type of activity but haven't found a good listing yet. Like 12 signs of the zodiac, something distinct and unique for each labor. Relate it to an activity or better still, some sort of mental activity.

Funny thing about dreams, usually we must know we are watching the dream happen, because we don't act out the motions, just like watching a movie. Although people can include some body language into the watching, maybe sleep walking is just a bit of excessive body language to go along with the exciting dream. But the dream is such a big part of the internal machinery that we can't see everything making it happen, let alone follow it. Maybe dreams were the original movie theaters, seating for one.

For me it is all about Forbidden Planet. They created machines that took up any old thought rattling around in their minds and put it into action, no matter what the consequences. I am stretching the issue to include our machines (krell machines) we got transforming the world into what we want to see happen with the unintended consequence of people working at cross purposes (any old thought popping into mind as to what can be done) with Labors Of Hercules as the fix. I always thought the journey (conscious mind) went into our minds and encountered mental blocks (subconscious operations) which were blocking forward action and using an interpretation of the labors could show one how to heal themselves, or at least contain and control the engine that drives our bodies and minds around. Instead of hanging on to the rear bumper for dear life, get in the driver's seat and really go to the Moon or whatever.

 

[Star-child]

What are "monsters of the Id", outside of Forbidden Planet?

 

[Robert Zwilling]

Short answer: our collective subconscious enables the monsters of the Id to do physical work on the Earth.

On Altair 4, there is a single massive machine with unlimited power that can utilize a single person's thoughts to do physical work on the planet. The machine doesn't have the ability to decide not to do what the operator wants to do or dreams about doing. It just amplifies the conscious and unconscious wishes of the operator.

On Earth there is no single massive machine with unlimited power using a single person's thoughts to perform physical actions. There billions of machines, in all sizes, from manually operated, to controlled by people, or controlled by programs people have set up to run the machines. These machines work every day to reshape the Earth so we can get what we need. Even though they aren't owned, directed by, operated by, working for one person, the collective action of all the machinery working everyday is the equivalent of the Krell machine. The machines have a multitude of "owners" but the machines actions are all working on one object, the Earth's surface.

From individual ideas and dreams of individual operators to the largest operations that are controlled through a succession of managers who ultimately report to one entity, it is the combined actions of all the people involved, even when they are at cross purposes to each others goals, that determines how all the machinery ultimately interacts. In some ways the combined total movements of all the machines are being directed by a ouija board type of control, because at any one time the combined movements of all the machines are subject to the whims of multitudes of people, with no preset agreements as to what the total outcome will be, except to somehow change the face of the Earth.

Because of the vast amounts of machinery, work done, work not done, material handled, and the collective minds of everyone involved, all happening at once, the conscious mind can not comprehend everything happening, nor can it prevent various unwanted things from happening, they just happen as a matter of course. Intended actions or unintended consequences, there is too much happening. All the people have one thing in common, their subconscious desires that ultimately determine what is done, how it is done, and how the final products of all this work is used. The subconscious mind can understand everything that is happening by virtue of it being in control of most things the conscious mind wants to see accomplished and it isn't bothered by things that bother the conscious mind, it just rolls right along.

 

[Danny McG]

Short answer: our collective subconscious enables the monsters of the Id to do physical work on the Earth.

On Altair 4, there is a single massive machine with unlimited power that can utilize a single person's thoughts to do physical work on the planet. The machine doesn't have the ability to decide not to do what the operator wants to do or dreams about doing. It just amplifies the conscious and unconscious wishes of the operator.

On Earth there is no single massive machine with unlimited power using a single person's thoughts to perform physical actions. There billions of machines, in all sizes, from manually operated, to controlled by people, or controlled by programs people have set up to run the machines. These machines work every day to reshape the Earth so we can get what we need. Even though they aren't owned, directed by, operated by, working for one person, the collective action of all the machinery working everyday is the equivalent of the Krell machine. The machines have a multitude of "owners" but the machines actions are all working on one object, the Earth's surface.

From individual ideas and dreams of individual operators to the largest operations that are controlled through a succession of managers who ultimately report to one entity, it is the combined actions of all the people involved, even when they are at cross purposes to each others goals, that determines how all the machinery ultimately interacts. In some ways the combined total movements of all the machines are being directed by a ouija board type of control, because at any one time the combined movements of all the machines are subject to the whims of multitudes of people, with no preset agreements as to what the total outcome will be, except to somehow change the face of the Earth.

Because of the vast amounts of machinery, work done, work not done, material handled, and the collective minds of everyone involved, all happening at once, the conscious mind can not comprehend everything happening, nor can it prevent various unwanted things from happening, they just happen as a matter of course. Intended actions or unintended consequences, there is too much happening. All the people have one thing in common, their subconscious desires that ultimately determine what is done, how it is done, and how the final products of all this work is used. The subconscious mind can understand everything that is happening by virtue of it being in control of most things the conscious mind wants to see accomplished and it isn't bothered by things that bother the conscious mind, it just rolls right along.

Aw, go on then, gimme the long answer

 

[Robert Zwilling]

Book due out for publication...I'll go with the 5 year plan, make it 2025, plus some. Strangely enough, something keeps sabotaging the remake efforts of The Forbidden Planet, The Real Story, as told in endless sequels, not that I mind. The original is perfect. Probably because they didn't have anything to copy so they had to make everything original.

 

[Danny McG]

I would think depriving yourself of cheese at bedtime should do the trick