World Building Question: Hierarchies

[Primordial]

First of all, I'm new to the community and apologize if this question has been asked before. I searched but didn't find what I was looking for...I may have missed something though.

I was looking for ideas for different hierarchies to use for the novel I'm writing (takes place in a future galaxy). I'm wondering where everyone found their ideas to come up with their hierarchy (and titles) for:

- For a government
(In my story, there's central authority for an alliance of planets/systems based on a limited number council at the head with one figurehead that
ultimately makes the decisions)
- For a religious organization
(In my story, this organization works closely with the government council but also influences the alliance of planets and past that.)
- For a corporation
(still determining how it is going to be incorporating in the story - if at all at this time)

I would like to come up with something original but also know the dangers of "reinventing the wheel". So just seeing what you guys have found useful in your experience that I could learn from.

Thank you in advance for your consideration and feedback.

Cheers,
Primordial

 

[-K2-]

That's a rather broad question considering you've not defined what you're specifically needing. In any case, in worlds I've created I've developed the culture first, then using the foundations of their beliefs, developed systems for godly hierarchies, leadership, class systems, the military and so on.

E.g.: A barbarian race placed their warriors at the top, slaves at the bottom and everyone else between. But, since the core concept of their culture was balance, though warriors enjoyed a privileged lifestyle, they were considered ultimately 'less-than' the average person. More so, only a slave who embraced the clan's ways and beliefs fully--and demonstrated that--could be elevated to the position of highest standing (because, clan members were born into those beliefs...slaves had to reject their culture's and choose the clan's. So, they achieved something a clan member never could).

You could try a different twist. Have a typical top-down hierarchy for one culture, and then either a competing or perhaps intermingled culture might have a bottom-up system. Regardless, most systems are about power--obviously. So, I'd suggest starting with the position(s) with the most power, and work out from there. Where you can get a bit creative is what responsibility goes along with that power and perhaps, is it something that is desired or shunned by the majority.

Just a few thoughts, but I'd consider the general culture first, their values, goals and so on... then develop class/power systems. If you do that, they'll very possibly reveal themselves.

K2

 

[Primordial]

That's a rather broad question considering you've not defined what you're specifically needing. In any case, in worlds I've created I've developed the culture first, then using the foundations of their beliefs, developed systems for godly hierarchies, leadership, class systems, the military and so on.

E.g.: A barbarian race placed their warriors at the top, slaves at the bottom and everyone else between. But, since the core concept of their culture was balance, though warriors enjoyed a privileged lifestyle, they were considered ultimately 'less-than' the average person. More so, only a slave who embraced the clan's ways and beliefs fully--and demonstrated that--could be elevated to the position of highest standing.

You could try a different twist. Have a typical top-down hierarchy for one culture, and then either a competing or perhaps intermingled culture might have a bottom-up system. Regardless, most systems are about power--obviously. So, I'd suggest starting with the position(s) with the most power, and work out from there. Where you can get a bit creative is what responsibility goes along with that power and perhaps, is it something that is desired or shunned by the majority.

Just a few thoughts, but I'd consider the general culture first, their values, goals and so on... then develop class/power systems. If you do that, they'll very possibly reveal themselves.

K2

Thanks K2. I've edited my original post to hopefully provide more specific's.

 

[-K2-]

Thanks K2. I've edited my original post to hopefully provide more specific's.

Okay, but again, those are organizational aspects. What I'm suggesting is that you consider the cultures core beliefs. As examples: X culture believes that conquest is not just a way to live, but faithful to the values of the most powerful should rule over all others, deserves the property of all others, yet has a responsibility to all others to control and defend the people and lands. Y culture bases their culture on philanthropy. They believe that the only way to enlightenment and ultimately heaven, is to acquire as much as possible for the sole purpose of giving it to those less fortunate.

There are a gazillion possible variables...but until you know what is important to the people, and why/goals, it's difficult to define a system of power which promotes those beliefs. Otherwise, you're right back to the good old system of 'more than the other guy,' wealth, power, or whatever.

Does that make sense?

K2

 

[Toby Frost]

I would work out the story (ie the plot, not the background) first. I've been watching Firefly recently. I've got through over 6 hours and I've still got no idea how the Alliance is run. But that doesn't really matter until the characters are directly involved in something that will affect the running of society (killing a dictator will have different effects to killing a senator) or something particular to their society (dropping litter carries the death penalty) etc. It's also worth saying that pretty much every sort of government has been featured in an SF story somewhere, so I wouldn't worry about originality in that regard. If you ask me, it's always the characters who matter the most.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Hi @Primordial

First welcome to Chrons!

I'd always suggest a holistic approach to world building. Start somewhere but remember everything is connected.

So, for example, what about technology? Namely, given we are talking about a galactic space Opera, how do you travel between the stars?

Is it a 'fill your tank up with space gas' and easily commute from one side of the galaxy to the other, a la Star Wars. Or is it grim core, nothing beats the speed of light, hibernation etc. a la Alastair Reynolds.

Depending what you take will have profound impacts on the types of organisations that will best take advantage of the situation. The former could conceivably have an empire of sorts, the latter all local governments cut off from each other.

Then are you allowing Kardashev level 2 civilisations - societies that exploit the totality of their sun's output? We are talking about the potential for a thousand trillion beings in a dyson sphere type situation - how would organisations operate in such an astronomically huge social space? I'd guess that tyrannical minded individuals would find it impossible to even come close to dominating a tiny percentage of such a place.

Or planetary colonisation. Why? Why spend a lot of effort escaping the gravity well of one place to go to deep into another that probably needs huge amounts of resources to be liveable? Why not just construct O'Neil cylinders and related structures and just pop down to the planets to visit? (Plenty of material just lying about in space!) I've got a great reason why my space opera's civ colonised planets...but you'll have to wait till I publish!

So before I write too much! I'd just say think through the consequences of all the choices and how they impact everything. By doing this you will be giving your Galaxy believability.

Also while I get Toby's point...sometimes plot can spontaneously generate from good worldbuilding. And sometimes sticking to a cherished plot can help construct really daft universes. Again, think holistically, let the plot and worldbuilding interact and guide each other - a bit like the Escher picture of the two hands drawing each other.

 

[Primordial]

I would work out the story (ie the plot, not the background) first. I've been watching Firefly recently. I've got through over 6 hours and I've still got no idea how the Alliance is run. But that doesn't really matter until the characters are directly involved in something that will affect the running of society (killing a dictator will have different effects to killing a senator) or something particular to their society (dropping litter carries the death penalty) etc. It's also worth saying that pretty much every sort of government has been featured in an SF story somewhere, so I wouldn't worry about originality in that regard. If you ask me, it's always the characters who matter the most.

Love Firefly. Wish there was more of it.

Yeah, I get your point, K2's and Brian's. After your guy's feedback, I see now what the question I was really asking for:

So the context is this:
- An admiral of the navy is having to provide a report to the council which also has the religious organization present. While I have an idea of the individual roles the members play within their respective factions, it's the title of those roles that I was looking for ideas about.

Example:
- Instead of using "President", "Prime Minister", "Pope", "Bishop, etc, using something different unique terms for these roles.

So that's what I was wondering what you guys have found useful in your experience that I could learn from.

(Appreciate everyone's feedback. Writing is a lonely activity and it's nice to be able to bounce things around to get clarity of thought.)

 

[Primordial]

Okay, but again, those are organizational aspects. What I'm suggesting is that you consider the cultures core beliefs. As examples: X culture believes that conquest is not just a way to live, but faithful to the values of the most powerful should rule over all others, deserves the property of all others, yet has a responsibility to all others to control and defend the people and lands. Y culture bases their culture on philanthropy. They believe that the only way to enlightenment and ultimately heaven, is to acquire as much as possible for the sole purpose of giving it to those less fortunate.

There are a gazillion possible variables...but until you know what is important to the people, and why/goals, it's difficult to define a system of power which promotes those beliefs. Otherwise, you're right back to the good old system of 'more than the other guy,' wealth, power, or whatever.

Does that make sense?

K2

Thanks K2 and yes that makes sense. I've clarified the question in another post. Thank you again for your feedback. Cheers.

 

[thaddeus6th]

I've always been fond of Sebastocrater (a very senior role in the latter Eastern Roman Empire). Greek terms can be quite good because they're less common than Latin ones but still sound kind of right.

Welcome to Chrons, btw.

 

[CTRandall]

I've also found Greek useful for inventing new terms. To move to a broader cultural context, you could try looking at Mandarin, Arabic or Swahili terms, as well, possibly combining them (as the Chinese have done in calling their astronauts "taikonauts" or, withou the Greek influence, yuhangyuans).

 

[Primordial]

I've also found Greek useful for inventing new terms. To move to a broader cultural context, you could try looking at Mandarin, Arabic or Swahili terms, as well, possibly combining them (as the Chinese have done in calling their astronauts "taikonauts" or, withou the Greek influence, yuhangyuans).

Cool idea. Thanks CT.

 

[Star-child]

Strongly agree with @Toby Frost and @Venusian Broon: The form of government should be a choice that serves the 1) plot and 2) the rest of the 'world'. There is always a temptation in world building to design an interesting sounding place and then shoehorn a plot into that world. But you don't want to limit your story with restrictions that are unnecessary and arbitrary.

My suggestion: Write your story, and if the action would be served by a power hierarchy (the Pope vetoes the military deployment), create that structure at that point. You can always back-fill exposition into earlier parts of the story on re-write.

Unless your story revolves around bureaucratic intrigue, your readers truly won't care what the specific government system is. It is like worrying about what your spaceship hulls are made of if that isn't a plot point.

 

[sknox]

Serve the story first, no argument there. The OP was asking specifically (well, eventually) about alternate terms for high offices. That's trickier, in two ways. One, it's difficult to find a word that would mean bishop that is going to resonate with readers and conjure up what the author intends. You can turn to other languages, but for some readers the word will now mean no more than any made-up word, while those who speak that language are going to be interpreting it with their own cultural perception. Which may or may not be what the author wants.

The other way it's tricky is, the author has to call these people *something*. Even in the first draft. Even leaving title aside, the nature of the hierarchy and the character's position within it all need to be thought through at least somewhat. And, humans being human, those choices can sometimes affect how the story develops. IOW, sometimes story winds up serving world.

In that spirit, let's consider bishop. You can just use bishop, but as you describe the character and the world through which he moves, you can describe costume, powers claimed or exercised, conflicts with other officials, and so on, in ways that make it plain you aren't talking about Roman Catholic bishops or even Anglican ones. In other words, the title is the same but the portrait is different.

Or, you can choose to use a different word, such as episcopos. Or even Xynth. Either way, you will need to describe costume, powers claimed or exercised, etc. in ways that make it plain that the word means a powerful person within the religious hierarchy of your world.

As you can see, either way, it's going to be descriptions and context and interactions that give *meaning* to whatever word you use. I've wrestled the same beast, and that's the conclusion I've come to. The term I wind up using is more a case of choosing something that just feels right. It also means going back and changing the six other versions I tried out somewhere in the manuscript. <g>

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I actually think it's good you're thinking about this before working at things - it drives me into teeth-gnashing when societal and organisational structures don't sit well together, and there's no reason you can't get a grasp of it before writing.

In terms of organisational structure, it's usually led by several things:

What the core values are. With this one, you're mixing the organisation's values with religious values, and that's fine. Lots of organisations do but it does, definitely, affect how they are ran and the structures they utilise. Something like the Quaker society might be worth looking at - they have organisational values that are clearly led by the religious beliefs in place and both mutually support each other, but also provide unique challenges for one another. Another organisation worth looking at might be Corrymeela, in Northern Ireland. Very unusual, that one.

What they want to acheive and how. An organisation who wants to resolve homelessness by providing more accomodation is different from one that wants to resolve homelessness by improving job skills and enabling secure income. If you can clearly understand what your character needs to acheive, and why, it will go some way to defining them.

It's worth noting, by the way, that senior managers and strategic mangers in an organisation will normally have a relatively close value base with the organisation, so that is something where conflict can be sown, especially with the religious elements in there.

Someone worth looking at is Charles Handy who names his cultures after greek gods, gives them a visual reference and a single word name. It works well, if quirkily.

Apologies for the long post. Every forum needs a management nerd. Honestly.

 

[IAmTR]

If I'm not too late, I think it's fine to start where you are. But here's my quick take:

Ask yourself what major events led to the formation of that hierarchy? Then how did those events effect the culture of the people living under that hierarchy.

I think that will get you asking yourself enough questions to flesh that out more and really get going with world building.

 

[The Big Peat]

Insofar as I have thought about hierarchies for my fictional worlds (which is some if not huge amounts) I have stolen and I have stolen shamelessly. That's not just laziness, but it's also something that I think helps create something the reader can grasp on to easily. Where I've maybe not gone traditional in the worldbuilding, I've tended to try avoiding mentioning for the story. I would personally urge you to avoid going too off-piste unless you want to spend a lot of story explaining why it's unconventional. If you do, cool!

Title wise... maybe you could just jam a bunch of titles from one org into another? It might surprise people a little, it might take a bit of juggling, and this idea might not work for what you want, but if your culture has very religious underpinnings, maybe everyone of an executive rank, regardless of organisation, is called a cardinal. Or maybe they're Commanders, or Executives, or, I dunno, Daimyos. Spitballing here.


One final little thought - you say the council ultimately has a figurehead that makes all the decisions? Surely the point of a figurehead is they don't make decisions?

 

[Ravensirtis]

Well for corporations i'd definilty say that keeping to
Board of Directors>CEO>Employees
or Managing Director> Employees would be best.

For governments i'm struggling a touch myself, I'm thinking of keep a federation based from Earth and hold that to the same kinda setup as the EU parliament or the UN, just because that is relatable and understandable to the reader. For other factions and say..

Where's their starting point?
What's the culture like there?
How would that culture be governed?

Then extrapolate from there