What the Fantasy Genre Needs.

[BAYLOR]

The variety of books that we have in fantasy is truly staggering, that no can argue. We have all kinds of fantasy , Urban fantasy , Comic fantasy , sci fantasy , Alt history fantsy epic multi volume fantasy ( make It stop ! make It stop ! , It Burns ! ) with books averaging 800 to 900 pages, that have character glossary indexes so big that by the time you get to page one of the actual novel , you've fallen asleep from boredom and exhaustion and worse by, the time you get to that first page, you forgotten those names completely . ( for the record I love some of those and im having a little fun here) I do think that along the way, something has become lost in the genre . Gone is heroic fantasy with the lone single barbarian hero (male of female ) Warrior who does battle with the evil Demon, Monster, Wizard or whatever in the stygian darkness of the forbidden , forgotten prehuman ruins. No one seems to write those kinds of stories anymore. Yes, I know the limitations that such stories have but ,even so , they can be so much fun to read and to me, that gives them a point and purpose . Perhaps the world and the reading public has move past such things and perhaps im being a bit silly and sentimental . So be it. I remember when they stopped issuing Conan pastiches a few years back, it might be that that was the final end of the line for traditional heroic fantasy. Im thinking that if the Conan film in 2011 had maybe been a hit, perhaps that might have reignited interest in heroic fantasy again .

Thoughts?

 

[Vince W]

There is some small press heroic fantasy/S&S fantasy still being published (check out Black Gate for some sources), but for the most part it has fallen by the wayside. I'm like you @BAYLOR, I enjoy a good two-fisted action fantasy type story without all the needless ennui associated with these doorstop books and series. That last Conan film didn't do heroic fiction any favours and while I enjoyed Solomon Kane for the most part it never reached mainstream popularity so it didn't push heroic fantasy to the forefront either.

In order for heroic fantasy to regain any popularity it would probably have to break past the traditional forms and create something new that would appeal to today's youth. I don't know what form that would take, but it will have to be something significant.

 

[BAYLOR]

There is some small press heroic fantasy/S&S fantasy still being published (check out Black Gate for some sources), but for the most part it has fallen by the wayside. I'm like you @BAYLOR, I enjoy a good two-fisted action fantasy type story without all the needless ennui associated with these doorstop books and series. That last Conan film didn't do heroic fiction any favours and while I enjoyed Solomon Kane for the most part it never reached mainstream popularity so it didn't push heroic fantasy to the forefront either.

In order for heroic fantasy to regain any popularity it would probably have to break past the traditional forms and create something new that would appeal to today's youth. I don't know what form that would take, but it will have to be something significant.

With a better script and story Jason Mamoa would have fine in the role. Were I the studio I would brought in Sam Rami to direct and produce the film. The Solomon Kane movie had the right actor the right look , but the overall story and direction was abysmal. They might have been better off to set it in Africa.

How to make it more appealing ? I don't know.

 

[KGeo777]

I think Solomon Kane had promise but it was hampered by the unwillingness to just let the character be himself-so they tacked on the back story and he came across as a more emo Hugh Jackman.
It's not hard to see what prevents sword and sorcery from being promoted. It is unapologetic in its fantasy as well as the nothing left to the imagination depiction of masculine and feminine characters. In the post MST3K environment, such things are set up for mockery. Not so much by audiences but by the media gatekeepers who are obsessed with concerns over toxic gender behavior.
Even with Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan, the character was not only radically different from the REH version but Arnie himself was the product of steroids, not a naturally strong guy like William Smith, Ken Clark, Lex Barker, Mike Henry, or others who were so obviously male. Just as no one could mistake Ursula Andress or Caroline Munro for transgender.
In the 1960s, Stewart Granger or Rod Taylor could have been a decent Solomon Kane IMO.
Let's build a time machine and go back with a home computer and some graphics software and make some sword and sorcery films in Italy during their peplum craze.
The ultimate Conan film is waiting to be done in Rome of 1964..

 

[BAYLOR]

I think Solomon Kane had promise but it was hampered by the unwillingness to just let the character be himself-so they tacked on the back story and he came across as a more emo Hugh Jackman.
It's not hard to see what prevents sword and sorcery from being promoted. It is unapologetic in its fantasy as well as the nothing left to the imagination depiction of masculine and feminine characters. In the post MST3K environment, such things are set up for mockery. Not so much by audiences but by the media gatekeepers who are obsessed with concerns over toxic gender behavior.
Even with Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan, the character was not only radically different from the REH version but Arnie himself was the product of steroids, not a naturally strong guy like William Smith, Ken Clark, Lex Barker, Mike Henry, or others who were so obviously male. Just as no one could mistake Ursula Andress or Caroline Munro for transgender.
In the 1960s, Stewart Granger or Rod Taylor could have been a decent Solomon Kane IMO.
Let's build a time machine and go back with a home computer and some graphics software and make some sword and sorcery films in Italy during their peplum craze.
The ultimate Conan film is waiting to be done in Rome of 1964..

A Conan film franchise in the 1960's would have actually worked.

 

[Randy M.]

Steve Reeves as Conan, and Sylvia Koscina as whoever she wanted to be. I especially look forward to the dubbing with lips moving to words we aren't hearing.

Randy M.

 

[Vince W]

There are several Warhammer Fantasy novels that could fit the heroic fantasy mould. Especially the Witchhunter trilogy which is essentially Solomon Kane.

 

[BAYLOR]

There are several Warhammer Fantasy novels that could fit the heroic fantasy mould. Especially the Witchhunter trilogy which is essentially Solomon Kane.

Gotrek and Felix fit that mold.. In some ways Gotrek reminds me of Kane the Mystic Swordsman.

 

[CTRandall]

I think the "lone hero standing against outrageous evil" has been taken over by action/thrillers like Jack Reacher. That's not to say there's no fantasy doing it now but even not-so-recent fare like Orcs is pretty much obliged to give show the emotional life of the main characters and give some context for violence.

 

[KGeo777]

Most people have never seen YOR or HUNDRA. Yor is closer to Conan of the stories than the 1982 movie is. Hundra is basically Xena but with locations that look more authentic than a New Zealand park.

Now for a word from the sons of Hercules:

[youtube]

 

[BAYLOR]

Steve Reeves as Conan, and Sylvia Koscina as whoever she wanted to be. I especially look forward to the dubbing with lips moving to words we aren't hearing.

Randy M.

I would have definitely watched those.

 

[BAYLOR]

Ive seen Yor. That film in its cheeses is a joy to watch. It's fun stuff !

 

[BAYLOR]

They need to put the fun back into fantasy .

 

[BAYLOR]

Better cover artists.

 

[BAYLOR]

I think Solomon Kane had promise but it was hampered by the unwillingness to just let the character be himself-so they tacked on the back story and he came across as a more emo Hugh Jackman.
It's not hard to see what prevents sword and sorcery from being promoted. It is unapologetic in its fantasy as well as the nothing left to the imagination depiction of masculine and feminine characters. In the post MST3K environment, such things are set up for mockery. Not so much by audiences but by the media gatekeepers who are obsessed with concerns over toxic gender behavior.
Even with Arnold Schwarzenegger's Conan, the character was not only radically different from the REH version but Arnie himself was the product of steroids, not a naturally strong guy like William Smith, Ken Clark, Lex Barker, Mike Henry, or others who were so obviously male. Just as no one could mistake Ursula Andress or Caroline Munro for transgender.
In the 1960s, Stewart Granger or Rod Taylor could have been a decent Solomon Kane IMO.
Let's build a time machine and go back with a home computer and some graphics software and make some sword and sorcery films in Italy during their peplum craze.
The ultimate Conan film is waiting to be done in Rome of 1964..

The people who produced Solomon Kane took a can't miss film franchise and essentially , screwed it up big time.

 

[BAYLOR]

On the plus side Netflix is doing a Conan tv series.

 

[Vince W]

On the plus side Netflix is doing a Conan tv series.

Where did you hear this? The last I heard Amazon had given up on the project. Did Netflix acquire the rights?

 

[JJewel]

Netflix do seem to be doing a lot, who backs them that they can afford so much when standard channels are failing badly?

 

[BAYLOR]

Where did you hear this? The last I heard Amazon had given up on the project. Did Netflix acquire the rights?

Netflix is doing a Conan series.

 

[KGeo777]

I really look forward to not watching that Conan series.
There's no possible way it will resemble REH Conan or even Marvel Conan.