A question for the bilinguals

[Astro Pen]

I was reading some Lorca poems and started thinking about the process of translation generally. Fine for your camera instructions or a geology book perhaps. But how well does the translators craft hold up in fiction or more especially in poetry? Would, say, a Russian translation of Ballards The Crystal World be able to capture the nuance and semi poetic quality of his prose? As a humble monoglot I cannot judge Lorca's poems, only the translations (which still give me great pleasure). So my question is for those who by accident of birth or fate are truly bilingual, not merely linguaphoned.
Do you find good translations equal in both tongues, or is there always a transmission loss. Or have you even encountered a translation executed with such skill as to be an improvement on the original?

 

[Overread]

One thing to consider is that different languages don't just have different words, but whole different "concepts" of words.

So it can be very hard to translate a single word from one language into another as that one word might represent multiple words within another. For something like a poem, which often relies heavily upon a strict assortment of thoughts and words and their interplay with each other, I can only imagine that its very hard to get the same effect unless the two languages have almost identical underlying structures. Otherwise I'd imagine that there are losses and gains depending on the quality of the translator. With "dead" languages we even see variations in meaning based on different translation versions as well.

Books are likely a bit easier since there's "room" to change the length of words and phrases and to carry the meaning more than the exact phrasing. Though I'm sure there are some subtle nuances that get lost in translation.

 

[hitmouse]

A really good translator conveys the spirit and nuance of the prose. A bad translator may get the words technically correct but it feels really clunky and uncomfortable without the feeling.
Comics give the best example I know. Tintin, and Asterix are brilliant translations. Blake & Mortimer is horribly clunky though technically correct. All translated into English from French

 

[Elckerlyc]

Yeah, I agree. Much depends on the artfulness of the translator and the effort he/she puts into it. When done adequately the things that get lost in translation are balanced out by the things the translator manages to gain.
If possible this should be done in cooperation with the author. Especially in works of SFF, where made up words are tricky to translate.

 

[CTRandall]

Do you find good translations equal in both tongues, or is there always a transmission loss. Or have you even encountered a translation executed with such skill as to be an improvement on the original?

As someone who has translated poetry (Danish to English professionally, German to English but not published or paid), while there are definitely "bad" translations that do damage to a poem, I don't think it's right to say there is always a "loss" in translation. There are always differences between the original and the translation but, with a good and careful translation, those differences can be enriching in multiple ways. Changes in rhythm and rhyme might alter the tone, even speed, of a poem and subtly change its reception. Changes in words with no precise cognate in the target language may shift meaning in small, even large, ways. Idiom, in particular, is a minefield and often requires significant changes to arrive at a similar point and the use of names or references to cultural touchstones (for example, Biblical references in much of Western literature) raise tricky problems.

Personally, some of my favourites are Michael Hamburger's translations of Paul Celan, Coleman Barks' translations of Rumi and FitzGerald's translation of Omar Khayyam's Rubaiyat. FitzGerald took huge liberties with the Rubaiyat, essentially changing its structure and writing new couplets based on Khayyam, rather than truly translating him. That is, almost by definition, a bad translation, and yet, almost 200 years later, the imagery and rhythm of his version is, for me, still more powerful than any other English translation I've read. Coleman Barks took liberties, as well, but generally stayed quite true to Rumi while communicating the wit, humour and profound love of the poetry. Of these three, Hamburger stays closest to the original and, since I can read Celan in German, I can examine the differences between the two versions, question the spots where Hamburger deviated from the original and admire the subtlety of his thinking as revealed by his choices.

All of that said, while I find some translations to be as interesting, compelling or as moving as the originals, I can't think of any where I found the translation to be better.

 

[CTRandall]

Here's one translation that is almost better than the original. Many of Lewis Carroll's made-up words sound so German to begin with, they seem to fit better in a German poem. The cost, however, is that the language loses a little of its fantastical and absurd quality.

Der Jammerwoch
trans. Robert Scott

Es brillig war. Die schlichte Toven
Wirrten und wimmelten in Waben;
Und aller-mümsige Burggoven
Die mohmen Räth' ausgraben.

»Bewahre doch vor Jammerwoch!
Die Zähne knirschen, Krallen kratzen!
Bewahr' vor Jubjub-Vogel, vor
Frumiösen Banderschntzchen!«

Er griff sein vorpals Schwertchen zu,
Er suchte lang das manchsan' Ding;
Dann, stehend unterm Tumtum Baum,
Er an-zu-denken-fing.

Als stand er tief in Andacht auf,
Des Jammerwochen's Augen-feuer
Durch tulgen Wald mit Wiffek kam
Ein burbelnd Ungeheuer!

Eins, Zwei! Eins, Zwei! Und durch und durch
Sein vorpals Schwert zerschnifer-schnück,
Da blieb es todt! Er, Kopf in Hand,
Geläumfig zog zurück.

»Und schlugst Du ja den Jammerwoch?
Umarme mich, mien Böhm'sches Kind!
O Freuden-Tag! O Halloo-Schlag!«
Er schortelt froh-gesinnt.

Es brillig war. Die schlichte Toven
Wirrten und wimmelten in Waben;
Und aller-mümsige Burggoven
Die mohmen Räth' ausgraben.

 

[sknox]

JV: Translations
For those of you who speak a dozen or more languages.

 

[CTRandall]

That's where I copied the German Jabberwocky above. This version first appeared in Douglas Hofstadter's classic, Gödel Escher Bach, I think.