10.14: The Walking Dead - Look at the Flowers

[ctg]

Heroes and villains reckon with the aftermath of the Hilltop fire. Meanwhile, Eugene takes a group on a journey to meet Stephanie, with the hopes of befriending another civilization.

 

[ctg]

Damn Carol. Damn, damn, damn.

I guess there is no honour left in the old lady. She sprung Negan out of the cell, promised him Heaven and Earth, and then when the moment came to conclude the business, she backed out, leaving Negan on his own, without a solution to get back in Alexandria. That is cold. Redemption denied for the funny guy in the leather coat.

Man, that must have hurt...

His face said everything. The fish face was impressive and I am surprised that Negan didn't take Alpha's head from the spike and threw it after Carol as a sign of deal going sour. It surprised me that the people were scared when Dr Evil broke his news. Instead of feeling positive, they were mostly negative and for a moment I thought Eugene is going to face reckoning. It is almost as if the survivors of Hilltop wanted to keep their heads in the bushes and not go forward. Certainly not with the meeting.

New people? They are only going to ef us. Honestly, that has been the case in both Fear and in TWD. Everything is suspicious. There is no more good people left in the world. Virgil was a last tick. He took Michonne out of the big picture and didn't even provide anything.

Well, maybe the case is that it takes time to develop trust in the Kirkman's world. I hated that Daryl tied up Negan and then took him to stick to get only captured by the Whisperers. When they raised Negan as their new Alpha, I loved the reverse. It fit perfectly Negan's role. He is now a redeemer. A turned man. A trickster and a leader.

To my eyes he is still a bad man, but he's our bad man.

Beta didn't accept his new status as Alpha. He went completely bonkers, rivalling the Filthy Woman with his madness. It's not like he had many marbles left in his brain box anyway. A revenge instead of backing out and gearing up for the final punishment is surely something he shouldn't be committing. It is as if he gave up as soon as he saw Alpha. That life any longer mattered to him or any of the followers.

It was pretty clear what he thought at front of the saloon, but that's what the grief does to you. You give up and want to follow them to death. It is also a sign that he loved Alpha in his weird ways, and he was willing to do whatever it takes to keep their dynasty going. It was strange that he went mad for seeing his own image in the poster.

Country singer, eh?

Should start avoiding them? I get that his heart is broken and it has driven him mad, but what good does it do to show your anger at the past? Nothing. The past won't go away no matter how you want it. It will always be there, reminding you of triumphs and failures. The truth is, as long as you're alive in the Kirkman's world, you're always winning. No matter what you do, because the life is most precious.

Maybe Carol gets it because she's not as broken as Beta. Although it is seriously worrying that she's seeing a ghost and Beta only rage, and hatred. To be honest, they both need time in the padded cell to get their heads fixed.

Another group? Look at them. They could have spent time in those cages forever. All their clothes are tatters and rotting on top of them. Both look super hungry, almost skeletons. In terms of zombie physiology these are more dire extreme cases than ones we have seen so far. All the previous ones has showed meat over the bones, while these ones are skin and bones.

I loved that the city zombies showed the same thing. Tied in their places, all super hungry but unable to hunt anything. I liked even more that they were all dressed pretty and showing Viv's favourite colour, purple. It made me feel good. I even laughed at those sights and enjoyed it more than Negan proving his redemption arc. Frankly, those sights felt refreshing.

 

[nixie]

Not happy, we have an episode next week but the season finale will not air till later in year.

Carol not holding up her end of the bargain shouldn't come as a surprise, it's Carol.

Carol's insane, her being accompanied by the Alpha ghost is a reminder how close to the edge she is.

The Daryl and Negan scenes were good, the relationship is complex, they have a grudging respect for each other. Daryl doesn't like Negan but I think on some level he knows they need him to help defeat Beta.
Negan does like Daryl, he may be an evil b#$@#%& but we have know he has a soft spot for kids and will try and keep them safe.

Beta, the country singer descending into madness, his army will be the dead. Hopefully the other whisperers will realise the only way they can join him is to become a walker, no skins in Beta's army and stay well clear.

I'll leave comment on the new girl until I've seen more. Although do wonder how did she manage to make mannequins of walkers without been bite?

 

[BAYLOR]

Negan can't undo the things that he done, he know this. But that said, I hope Negan makes it.

 

[REBerg]

I guess there is no honour left in the old lady. She sprung Negan out of the cell, promised him Heaven and Earth, and then when the moment came to conclude the business, she backed out, leaving Negan on his own, without a solution to get back in Alexandria. That is cold. Redemption denied for the funny guy in the leather coat.

Carol did specify that she wanted Negan to take Alpha out quickly. By that, she may have meant before Alpha destroyed Hilltop. I guess you'd have to take a look at the fine print in the hit contract to see if Negan really fulfilled his side,

New people? They are only going to ef us. Honestly, that has been the case in both Fear and in TWD. Everything is suspicious. There is no more good people left in the world. Virgil was a last tick. He took Michonne out of the big picture and didn't even provide anything.

I can't blame them for erring on the side of suspicion. Most survivors are better avoided.

Beta didn't accept his new status as Alpha. He went completely bonkers, rivalling the Filthy Woman with his madness. It's not like he had many marbles left in his brain box anyway.

Well, isn't it a fairly small step from country western music to madness?

I hated that Daryl tied up Negan and then took him to stick to get only captured by the Whisperers. When they raised Negan as their new Alpha, I loved the reverse.

I was taken by surprise at the advancement-by-assassination development. I was surprised again when he abdicated. Being in charge is his thing. Fear of Beta?

I loved that the city zombies showed the same thing. Tied in their places, all super hungry but unable to hunt anything. I liked even more that they were all dressed pretty

That definitely lent an air of whimsy to the new location. It made think that the new character may be alone and has been amusing herself by arranging walker scenes mimicking normal life.

 

[REBerg]

I'll leave comment on the new girl until I've seen more. Although do wonder how did she manage to make mannequins of walkers without been bite?

In true TWD tradition, maybe the new lady kills newcomers, then does her staging before they reanimate? She did seem unnaturally chipper in her greeting.

 

[ctg]

Hopefully the other whisperers will realise the only way they can join him is to become a walker, no skins in Beta's army and stay well clear.

What did you think about his new mask incorporating part of Alpha in it? Where did he find a needle, thread and a scissors? Or did he just use a stapler to get his face fixed?

Carol did specify that she wanted Negan to take Alpha out quickly. By that, she may have meant before Alpha destroyed Hilltop. I guess you'd have to take a look at the fine print in the hit contract to see if Negan really fulfilled his side,

You know Negan isn't a psychopath. Carol is and if we look at it, she might have actually enjoyed of using a triggerman rather doing it herself. Killing Alpha meant everything to her. She had a revenge burning in her chest, and when Negan wasn't delivering, it all went to hell in the hand-basket. Carol had no patience on waiting Negan bringing the gift. She was there the next day, wanting to get on with the business.

Well, isn't it a fairly small step from country western music to madness?

I'm not sure. I'm fine with country and people. Not just with the hillbillies. If they do stupid thing, I might laugh and mock about them or simply leave before it escalates to stupidity. Madness is a curious thing, you can be a president and still do unbelievably stupid things that cost lives. But nobody says it's because he's mad as a hatter. Just like Beta.

 

[Dave]

She sprung Negan out of the cell, promised him Heaven and Earth, and then when the moment came to conclude the business, she backed out, leaving Negan on his own, without a solution to get back in Alexandria. That is cold. Redemption denied for the funny guy in the leather coat.

Carol not holding up her end of the bargain shouldn't come as a surprise, it's Carol.

Carol did specify that she wanted Negan to take Alpha out quickly.

Yes, she was unhappy that Negan took so long; the attack on Hilltop might never have happened, but Carol has clearly been mentally unwell for some time. How she survived her husband's abuse to become the warrior woman was quite unbelievable in any case, so asking for continuity in the character arcs now is a little late in the day. There was that one episode that focused on the fact that they all had PTSD, but then the following week it was back to business as normal.

Negan can't undo the things that he done, he knows this.

I wondered that if he hadn't that opportunity to save Daryl's life, if Daryl would have killed him despite his story. Negan says that he only killed people that deserved it, and never children, but did Glen deserve to die? Negan was cruel, and while seven years may have changed him, can people change that much? Daryl is never going to like him and doesn't have to.

There is no more good people left in the world. Virgil was a last tick. He took Michonne out of the big picture and didn't even provide anything.

I can't blame them for erring on the side of suspicion. Most survivors are better avoided.

Most survivors will also have PTSD and from every previous encounter, I don't think you can take anyone at face value.

Beta didn't accept his new status as Alpha. He went completely bonkers

Once again, I think he was always mad. Could a Whisperer really be sane? I think he loved Alpha and cannot come to accept she is dead. I think he believes he, himself is already dead. If he leads that horde and no longer cares if he lives then he is very dangerous.

I loved that the city zombies showed the same thing. Tied in their places,

While Ezekiel found them funny, they were once people with jobs, family and lives. I think that once you lose that respect for the walking dead, you also lose respect for the living. Even if it is discovered this new woman (is it Stephanie?) thinks they are zombie art installations, you should be really worried about her. I also find it very, very unlikely she has survived alone. So, even if she isn't a threat, you need to beware her friends.

 

[Judderman]

The lady who made the zombie mannequins clearly has both a talent, a sense of humour, and is also somewhat unhinged. But she is the same lady who talked pleasantly on the radio for weeks?
I was surprised the meeting place was in a city. But it was a great change of scenery for the show, and a reminder of times gone by.

Carol's visions were a bit unnecessary considering we watxhed through Michonne's last week too. But it seems all is fine and dandy again now.

Hilltop was wrecked. So is Beta and his new horde going to rampage through Alexandria? He must be getting through the miles.

Negan was amusing.

Regarding the last episode completion. It has surprised me the last couple of years how shows apparently start airing a season before the whole season production (or post-production) is even completed. Obviously in normal circumstances they are efficient enough for it to work. Though there have been a number of shows that have taken longer breaks between seasons recently. Maybe they are cutting it too close.
I used to think all program seasons would be finished months before the first episode airs. I think it is still the case for some shows.

 

[ctg]

The lady who made the zombie mannequins clearly has both a talent, a sense of humour, and is also somewhat unhinged. But she is the same lady who talked pleasantly on the radio for weeks?

We don't know for sure. The lady in radio sounded scary, while she's completely opposite. To me she's someone who radio lady sent to meet Eugene.

Hilltop was wrecked. So is Beta and his new horde going to rampage through Alexandria? He must be getting through the miles.

What is going to eat? He's a big man, and maintaining all that mass requires steady meals. With hundreds of dead around he's on last march.

Regarding the last episode completion. It has surprised me the last couple of years how shows apparently start airing a season before the whole season production (or post-production) is even completed. Obviously in normal circumstances they are efficient enough for it to work. Though there have been a number of shows that have taken longer breaks between seasons recently. Maybe they are cutting it too close.

I think they are reshooting it, unless it has extensive CGI elements. It might because of something that was said that made them to do the thing. What it could be?

 

[svalbard]

I haven't read the thread yet and just finished the episode. My first thought is I have loved Carol, fumed at her actions but now I actually dislike her character which considering her history is a mark against the writers.

Back later with further thoughts after I read through the posts.

 

[Judderman]

I think they are reshooting it, unless it has extensive CGI elements. It might because of something that was said that made them to do the thing. What it could be?

From the AMC comments it seemed it was more to do with post-production computer effects that they do on every episode, that can't easily be run out of office. Maybe various kinds of cleaning up of the images.

 

[Judderman]

I haven't read the thread yet and just finished the episode. My first thought is I have loved Carol, fumed at her actions but now I actually dislike her character which considering her history is a mark against the writers.

Back later with further thoughts after I read through the posts.

Is disliking a character a bad thing? The one you love to hate... maybe so if she is still set to be on the side of heroes.
I suppose it depends if you dislike her for being nasty. Or if you dislike the character for being poorly drawn/nonsensical etc.

 

[tegeus-Cromis]

So... Most of you folks haven't read the comics, I guess?

 

[Judderman]

I haven't read Compendium 4 yet. CTG has, but most of the posters haven't. So best not to put in spoilers.

Interestingly Gimple doesnt see it ending in 2 seasons! Nor in the same way as the comic.
I would have thought another 2 seasons would work quite well. If you don't have an end in mind one day it gets cancelled messily.

The Walking Dead boss says series ending soon "isn't the plan"

Don't count on it.

www.digitalspy.com

 

[tegeus-Cromis]

No spoilers, but at this point it's quite close to the comic, and the shot in which Princess was introduced was a direct copy of a panel in the comic. So I assume her character will be very close to who she is on paper.

 

[Dave]

The rules here are clear, you can only discuss this episode inside this topic. As for bringing in materials from the comics (or source books for other TV shows) then giving the character's name is fine, but not anything more, if it hasn't been shown yet. It is fine to explain how the stories diverge from each other, but remember that we've often seen them written in a different order and things omitted have been added later. Anything more about the final episode could be placed in a new thread created for it.

I haven't read the comics but I do want to know one thing: Is Princess = Stephanie? Or are there two new characters?

 

[nixie]

My own impression is she is someone new. From Eugene's conversations with Stephanie, I assumed she was part of a group and for safety reasons wouldn't at first divulge their location. I still don't think she has but instead arranged to meet somewhere near enough for them both to reach.

I'm wondering if Stephanie is on her own or with a younger group and her diorama's are away to amuse them.

 

[ctg]

No spoilers, but at this point it's quite close to the comic, and the shot in which Princess was introduced was a direct copy of a panel in the comic. So I assume her character will be very close to who she is on paper.

We didn't knew her name. Sorry. I know I have seen her face in the covers but unfortunately I don't know the content.

My own impression is she is someone new. From Eugene's conversations with Stephanie, I assumed she was part of a group and for safety reasons wouldn't at first divulge their location. I still don't think she has but instead arranged to meet somewhere near enough for them both to reach.

Yeah. You got the same feeling as I did. We cannot know for sure if this new person is Princess or Stephanie. Although now that I think about it, maybe Princess is a scout, similar to the role Aaron used to do in the past.

 

[REBerg]

I don't think Princess is Stephanie.
Stephanie seemed shy, almost paranoid about any contact with outsiders, whereas Princess met the group with a big howdy.
I suppose the voice on the radio could have been an act, or the woman has at least two very different personalities.