Neo vs Klaatu

[Explor]

Keanu Reeves as Neo in the matrix 1999:
I know you're out there.I can feel you now.I know that you're afraid.You're afraid of us.You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone. And then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.

Keanu Reeves as Klaatu in The Day the Earth Stood Still 2008 :
Dr. Benson: I need to know what's happening
Klaatu: This planet is dying. The human race is killing it.
Dr. Benson: So you've come here to help us.
Klaatu: No, I didn't.
Dr. Benson:You said you came to save us.
Klaatu: I said I came to save the Earth.
Dr. Benson:You came to save the Earth.... from us. You came to save the Earth from us.
Klaatu: We can't risk the survival of this planet for the sake of one species.
Dr. Benson: What are you saying?
Klaatu: If the Earth dies, you die. If you die, the Earth survives.
There are only a handful of planets in the cosmos that are capable of supporting complex life.
Dr. Benson: You can't do this.
Klaatu: This one can't be allowed to perish.
Dr. Benson: We can change. We can still turn things around.
Klaatu: We have watched. We have waited and hoped that you would change.
Dr. Benson: Please.
Klaatu: It has reached the tipping point. We have to act.
Dr. Benson: Please.
Klaatu: We will undo the damage you have done and give the Earth a chance to begin again.
Dr. Benson: Don't do this. Please, we can change. We can change.
Klaatu: The decision is made. The process has begun.
Dr. Benson: Oh, God.
Klaatu: It won't make any difference, Helen.Even if they arrest me, even if they kill me,the process will continue.

In the matrix 1999 Keanu Reeves as Neo is fighting for human's freedom:
He want to show the humans a world without the matrix, A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible.
He fight against the matrix for changing human's life in favor of freedom

In The Day the Earth Stood Still 2008 Keanu Reeves as Klaatu is the savior of the earth:
He want to control the humans and force them to change in favor of rules and borders of life in the earth
He want to show the earth a world without the humans to undo the damage humans have done and give the Earth a chance to begin again
He fight against the humans for saving the life in the earth

Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

Neo: What truth?

Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.

The Morpheus convinced Neo to join fighting against the matrix , because they don't like to be slave in a prison named the matrix, But if they won this fight and if all of humans escape to outside of the matrix then will Slavery end?
Until the humans can earn an independent existence, Humans will remain slave for their need for existence, If the God is the only independent existence who simulating all dependent simulations and if we will never can earn an independent existence, then our existence will be dependent for ever and we should obey the God for donating our existence.


Pythagoras, thought "we can digit every thing",many centuries ago
But for examples such as love, we can not use this rule. For solving this problem, We can use a philosophy about ghosts, The ghosts come from the God and will return to him and the love is depend on ghosts, But What we can see are just some 3D Rendered animations.

In the matrix, the God is controlling the informations, our intelligence depend on our informations and our acts depend on our intelligence, so every act of us are depend on God.
In the matrix, no wish will be Reached, without God's wish because every force depend on God.
If it will be proven for every one that we live in the matrix: what will be happen to our believes and even religions,strange things such as ghosts , life after death and even final Judgment will seem possible, The god can see us everywhere however we can not see him anywhere


If the Morpheus ask us to obey him for fighting against the matrix, first he should proves that his experts, knowledge and his love to humankind is more than host of the matrix and he can prepare a better life than the matrix

In the second step He should proves that he can transfer us to outside of the matrix, Because in the matrix we can not escape from punishment of the matrix and our bodies and weapons are rendering by the matrix

If you trust Morpheus and he transfered you outside of the matrix:
How can be sure that by fighting against the matrix you will not harm the humans who live in the matrix?
If many peoples prefer to stay in the matrix, should you force them to go out?

Even if all of humans hate the matrix and can escape to outside of it, Should humans destroy the matrix and take the life of other species? Then Should the other species fight against the humans who want to take their life?
If humans decide to transfer other species to outside of the matrix, Can they transfer all of animals, fishs, plants, insects, bacterias and even viruses ?

Even if the humans can transfer all species of the earth to outside of the matrix, Then what about the other Galaxies, Should the humans destroy the matrix and all of Galaxies and other lifes in it, just for love of freedom?

A very important point in the matrix is the meaning of the zion, The zion is a promised peaceful land for Creatures freedom, but It is not Beyond the matrix because most of Creatures love the matrix as could as they understand, and if the matrix is simulated by God, then fighting against the matrix is fighting against the God, and will not lead us to God's promised land , and will not lead to peace. In the matrix, the Creature's freedom is specified by God and we can not wish an unlimited freedom



Indeed Klaatu did not want to force the humans to change, But they hoped humans change, When they were disappointed and It has reached the tipping point. They have to act. To undo the damage humans have done and give the Earth a chance to begin again

After that conversiation with Dr. Benson , Klaatu meet The Professor Barnhardt

Professor Barnhardt: There must be alternatives. You must have some technology that could solve our problem.

Klaatu: Your problem is not technology. The problem is you. You lack the will to change.

Professor Barnhardt: Then help us change.

Klaatu: I cannot change your nature. You treat the world as you treat each other.

Professor Barnhardt: But every civilization reaches a crisis point eventually.

Klaatu: Most of them don't make it.

Professor Barnhardt: Yours did. How?

Klaatu: Our sun was dying. We had to evolve in order to survive.

Professor Barnhardt: So it was only when your world was threated with destruction that you became what you are now.

Klaatu: Yes.

Professor Barnhardt: Well that's where we are. You say we're on the brink of destruction and you're right. But it's only on the brink that people find the will to change. Only at the precipice do we evolve. This is our moment. Don't take it from us, we are close to an answer.

In the last part of the movie, the Klaatu said:" Your professor was right, At the precipice, we change"

And finally Klaatu stoped his fight against the humans and give them a new chance for change

In The Matrix Revolutions 2003, Neo finally stopped fighting against the matrix and helped it for stopping The program Smith , Just wanted one Price for it: Peace ( not freedom, change or any thing else, for saving humans )

 

[ginny]

First of all you are comparing a movie Matrix that was essentially original to another movie that is a remake.
You should really look at the remake to understand the true premise behind the story.

Even so just because Keanu is in both movies doesn't give us much reason to be comparing the movies.

Even so:
It not quite the same as comparing
The Seventh Seal
and
Through a Glass Darkly
which are both Ingmar Bergman movies
both as screenwriter and producer.

Which I had to do in my College course Film as Art

 

[Explor]

Even so just because Keanu is in both movies doesn't give us much reason to be comparing the movies.

Similarity is more than just role of Keanu in both movies
In both of them his primitive solution is removing other side. in the matrix a world without the matrix and in other movie, a world without the humans
but his final solution is stopping fight and helping other side
and so on

 

[ginny]

Any similarities that you see are things that you personally seem to be keyed into however the movies are far from each other.
One is a movie(Matrix) about an earth that has been overtaken by a force that man created.
The other(TDTESS) is an earth that is in danger of two things- mankind's destructive behavior and now the judgement of some alien force from outside that seeks only to 'save' the planet.

Matrix--I don't recall that the matrix had anything to do with fixing the earth--in fact the earth looked pretty devastated by forces of the Matrix. It didn't seek to get rid of humanity--because humanity was its source of power. In fact the complex of the matrix seemed to be just another form of human abuse in that it subsumed mankind and took over where they left off.

In TDTESS there seemed a threat of scorched earth to then allow it to heal(though I'm not clear what use the planet would have after that[it is possible that the beings that sent Klaatu intended to use the planet in their own way and that might have been worse]). I'm not sure that we are meant to understand the full motive of aliens who view mankind as nothing more than glorified locusts devastating the earth.

In Matrix the value of humanity to the matrix was that of a source of power to keep itself going. That power necessitated absolute submission of humanity.
In the end we are left to possibly believe Neo has begun the process of making the two work together in a more equitable way.
This possibly might be the equivalent of putting us back on the track to the singularity that has become so popular these days.

In TDTESS mankind were a blight that needed to be removed. They have no use for them as we have no use for cockroaches.
In the end Klaatu discovers there might be some value to mankind and begins the process of halting our annihilation.
Klaatu has come down to earth and experience humanity and found it more worthy than thought.
This puts us on track toward a chance to demonstrate we can be better caretakers of the earth.

What i take away from the two movies are two non-related stories.

 

[Explor]

I don't recall that the matrix had anything to do with fixing the earth

In the matrix movie Neo want to save the humans by removing the matrix, so similarity with TDTESS movie is not "fixing the earth" similarity is "solving problem by removing other side"

in fact the earth looked pretty devastated by forces of the Matrix. It didn't seek to get rid of humanity

forces of the Matrix didn't seek to get rid of humanity , Neo want to get rid of the Matrix (as the problem)
In TDTESS, Klaatu want to get rid of humanity (as the problem)
so in both of them Keanu want to solve the problem by removing other side

What i take away from the two movies are two non-related stories

To discover some similarities, more attention should be paid

 

[ginny]

Or maybe someone is reaching too far.

To discover some similarities, more attention should be paid

Historically speaking-these genocide issues evolve from a place where one side doesn't acknowledge the other side as having worth.
The matrix doesn't go for genocide.
Neo might not recognize the Matrix in his paradigm of life; however the matrix subsumes and controls everyone(Neo initially wants to stay free-he didn't want this battle-he did want freedom). The matrix doesn't wipe them out because it needs them. It was only the response of the matrix to Neo's attempt at freedom that fostered any thought of annihilating the matrix as the only solution since the matrix was trying to annihilate him. The ending he takes a leap of faith that the present matrix was never meant to be what it is and that with time it could return to it's initial purpose and that that would be much better than trying to return everything to some life as before the matrix. That really amounts to deciding that a new set of politics was better than the present politics of war. For most everyone nothing has to change right away--however Neo is still a superuser.

Klaatu came from the other end like the matrix as the superior being who meant to suppress then wipe out the human race. Klaatu would be equivocal to the Matrix without the need to utilize the human race as a resource..
It's the human race that had to rise up to the occasion and demonstrate to him that they had worth that they had a place in the plan.
At the end they really didn't have a plan to work together; the only thing that changed is that Klaatu's 'people'.were not going to wipe out humanity to save the world. The plan was not flawed and didn't change except for the extermination of pests was halted. There was no politics and no politics of war because this superior race would have continued to wipe out the vermin had Klaatu decided they had no worth or value to the final plan. At the end there was still going to be a need for the human race to change dramatically to suit Klaatu.

I suppose there would be similarity if Klaatu had said; we'll let you continue to muddle along as you have and if you want help just remember we are here. However their goal was to save earth so the ending was more like--okay we won't kill you all; however there are some major changes that need to be instituted immediately.

Think in terms of any indigenous population whose land has been settled by aliens with superior technologies and a false sense of superiority in every other way because they are unwittingly racist.

 

[Explor]

Neo initially wants to stay free-he didn't want this battle-he did want freedom

If you want freedom of some rules & have no option to change them. One way is to change yourself and obey the rules
Other way is battle against the governors.
And in this battle, Neo wanted to remove the matrix as the governing system

That really amounts to deciding that a new set of politics was better than the present politics of war

Finally , Neo did not want a new set of politics . He want the matrix just one word :"peace"
So he changed and stopped his fight. and accepted rules and politics of the matrix Indirectly
Next he fight against the agent smith for helping the matrix and saving humans

At the end there was still going to be a need for the human race to change dramatically to suit Klaatu

Finally , Klaatu helped humans by showing "precipice" and giving them a chance for avoiding that
The requested change is not to suit him , It is for saving The earth and humans from precipice

 

[ginny]

I'm done.
It's apparent we watched two completely different movies and thus far no one else has weighed in.
have fun with yourself

 

[Explor]

It's apparent we watched two completely different movies and thus far no one else has weighed in.

We've seen One movie from two different perspective of view

have fun with yourself

Thank you for your participation
I am here to share this interesting ideas with others

 

[Boaz]

In my opinion the conversation should revolve around the phrase "Klaatu Verata.... Neo... necktie... nectar... nickel...neo? It's an "N" word, it's definitely an "N" word. It's definitely an "N" word! Klaatu... Verata... N(cough, cough)shvn..... Okay, then. That's it."

 

[Explor]

In my opinion the conversation should revolve around the phrase

Why are these words so important?

 

[Boaz]

In the film Army of Darkness, Bruce Campbell's character quests to find the Necronomicon. He is supposed to utter the three words: Clatu Verata Nicto in order to successfully counter the spell upon the book. He forgets the last word, but decides to fake saying it... leading to an army of the dead rising from their graves.

 

[Explor]

He forgets the last word, but decides to fake saying it... leading to an army of the dead rising from their graves

So these words can be part of a magic spell
It seems like we can learn magic by watching movies

 

[Boaz]

Is there another way? And my apologies, I did not mean to derail this thread... I just wanted to make a joke.

 

[Explor]

Is there another way?

Movies are powerful learning tools. At least they are more telling than books

I just wanted to make a joke

To state some facts , Jokes are a better method

 

[Explor]

It seems like we can learn magic by watching movies

For example in " Dr strange " movie, He learned "At the root of existence, mind and matter meet. Thoughts shape reality "
And In the matrix we can see how Thoughts of a simulator can shape reality of simulations

 

[Explor]

After new episode of the matrix "The Matrix Resurrections", Some parameters changed
For example: There is no plan for transferring all of humans to outside of the matrix.

So the fight of Neo against the matrix and the meaning of the Zion changed
And this topic can continue to analysis this changes

In "The Matrix Resurrections" This expression is very important about "Zion"

Niobe: We're quite excited about the blueberries. You remember that sh*t we used to eat? That slop that tasted like rust. Zion could have never made something like this.

Neo: Why?

Niobe: Because we needed synthients and DI like him. Zion was stuck in the past. Stuck in war. Stuck in a Matrix of its own. They believed that it had to be us or them. This city was built by us and them.

Instead of focusing on conflict between humans and machines seen in previous episodes
In "The Matrix Resurrections" we see cooperation examples:

The agent smith tells Neo:

Look, Tom, I know we've always had our differences. What did you say about our first meeting? We had all the chemistry of an FBI interrogation. But look at this place. We did this. Together.

Neo introduced to some machines around them:

- This is Cybebe. That's Octacles. That's Lumin8.

Neo: Machines are on our side now?

- They are synthients. It's a word they prefer to "Machines." Your contact with the Synthient City had a huge impact on their world. That's what I meant. What you changed that nobody believed could ever be changed. The meaning of "our side. "Cybebe and Octacles risked their lives to help get you out.