Late JRRT Musings on 3rd Age: 2021 Discussion Group Proposal

Extollager

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
9,229
Here is a tentative schedule:

Jan.: The Road Goes Ever On: JRRT’s notes on “Namarie,” etc. plus the Third Age section in Unfinished Tales
Feb.: Morgoth’s Ring pp. 301-431, with “Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth” (though this is not Third Age) and Myths Transformed
March: The War of the Jewels, with pp. 340-341 “Ents and Eagles” and pp. 359-424 “Quendi and Eldar”
Apr.-May: The Peoples of Middle-earth — entire book
June-August? The Nature of Middle-earth (announced for publication in May 2021)
 
And after that (but this would be a new thread) how about reading and discussing John Rateliff's History of The Hobbit --

Sept.-Oct. 2021 Mr Baggins
Nov.-Dec. 2021 Return to Bag End -- ?
 
Maybe... but I don't like to plan that far ahead.

For the moment just content to work through volumes 6 -9 of the History of Middle Earth with you on the other thread.
 
I think I'll reread Raymond Edwards's underappreciated biography Tolkien (Hale 2014) as a lead-up to this proposed study, and, of course, also as background for the current discussion on the composition of LotR as traced by Christopher in several volumes of The History of Middle-earth.
 
Here is a tentative schedule:

Jan.: The Road Goes Ever On: JRRT’s notes on “Namarie,” etc. plus the Third Age section in Unfinished Tales
Feb.: Morgoth’s Ring pp. 301-431, with “Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth” (though this is not Third Age) and Myths Transformed
March: The War of the Jewels, with pp. 340-341 “Ents and Eagles” and pp. 359-424 “Quendi and Eldar”
Apr.-May: The Peoples of Middle-earth — entire book
June-August? The Nature of Middle-earth (announced for publication in May 2021)

To the January reading, please add "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" as published in The Silmarillion (1977)
 
To the January reading, please add "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" as published in The Silmarillion (1977)

I'm just activating this thread to keep it present for those who might be interested, and expect to do that again in a couple of months or so if there's been no activity here in the meantime. This way, interested people have time to think about the project, and to get copies, as needed, at (I hope) advantageous prices in plenty of time.
 
Again, a reminder in case anyone is interested in participating in a thread on Tolkien's Late Musings on the Third Age, but needs time to acquire sources:

Jan. 2021: The Road Goes Ever On: JRRT’s notes on “Namarie,” etc.; "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" as published in The Silmarillion (1977); plus the Third Age section in Unfinished Tales
Feb.: Morgoth’s Ring pp. 301-431, with “Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth” (though this is not Third Age) and Myths Transformed
March: The War of the Jewels, with pp. 340-341 “Ents and Eagles” and pp. 359-424 “Quendi and Eldar”
Apr.-May: The Peoples of Middle-earth — entire book

Update: I don't think The Nature of Middle-earth, listed in the first posting above, will be appearing in time for discussion during the summer of 2021. Assuming it is not available, I'd recommend starting the discussion of The History of The Hobbit in June,, i.e. June-July for the first volume, and August-September for the second volume of Rateliff's account. This would be a new thread rather than part of the "Late Musings" one proposed here.
 
We can go ahead with discussing The Nature of Middle-earth starting in June, it seems! Very good news.


See proposed schedule in my previous message. After The Nature of Middle-earth we could go on to The History of The Hobbit. So who's on board?
 
We can go ahead with discussing The Nature of Middle-earth starting in June, it seems! Very good news.


See proposed schedule in my previous message. After The Nature of Middle-earth we could go on to The History of The Hobbit. So who's on board?

Have you ever heard of The Black Douglass by Samuel Rutherford Crockett ?
 
Yes, Baylor -- here is what I wrote about Crockett's novel in the J. R. R. Tolkien Encyclopedia (2006).

In The Black Douglas (1899), S. R. Crockett (1859-1914), tells how William, eighteen-year-old Earl of Douglas, one of the most powerful men in Scotland in 1440, is captivated by la Joyeuse, the Lady Sibylla, who is under the spell of Gilles de Retz and a pawn in a scheme of French and Scottish lords. The Lady Sibylla at first seems almost to be a fay-woman. The “Black Douglas” proclaims his love and faith in the lady, who comes truly to love him, even to the moment when his enemies take his and his brother’s lives. A subplot concerns Sholto McKim, a master armorer, who though youthful speedily rises to knighthood, and his infatuation with Maud Lindesay, companion of Margaret, the earl’s little sister. These two are kidnapped and taken to France, where they are captives of the satanist Marshal Gilles de Retz. De Retz is aided by the werewolf-witch, le Meffraye, and a pack of savage, uncanny wolves. His hidden charnel-house, containing the tumbled remains of many child-victims, is described with a gruesomeness avoided by Tolkien. The Lady Sibylla, however, turns against the Marshal, and with her help, Sholto, who has become a true hero, Laurence, and their father rescue Maud and Margaret. There is much description of characters’ clothes and other medieval props, in the manner of Sir Walter Scott in his inferior works, in the first half of the novel. However, after the murder of the Black Douglas, the pace is brisker, and tension and a sense of the weird deepen.



Jared Lobdell, in The World of the Rings, asserts more than is justified by the evidence of the Tolkien letter he cites (#306), in claiming not only that the battle with the werewolves in Chapter 49 contributed to the fight with the wargs in The Hobbit (Chapter 6; the Crockett passage is quoted in The Annotated Hobbit), but that Tolkien acknowledged that Gilles de Retz was “the source of his creation of Sauron” (Lobdell 6). However, although Tolkien doesn’t say so, he might have modeled Sauron on the novel’s satanist in a few details. Both agents of wickedness command armies of wolves or even werewolves; both torture victims in their high towers. While Sauron seeks to enslave the free peoples of Middle-earth, however, Gilles de Retz desires renewed youthfulness. (He is a prematurely aged man in his mid-thirties when he is put to death.) The mailcoat that Sholto’s mother gives him in Chapter 39 “‘will lie soft as silk, concealed and unsuspected under the rags of a beggar,’” and “‘No sword can cut through these links’’ (281): it is possible that Frodo’s hidden mithril-coat owes something to this. Although Lobdell suggests that Tolkien’s style was influenced by Crockett’s, Tolkien’s assertion that he hadn’t looked at The Black Douglas since he was a boy (Letters 391), added to the inconclusiveness of the evidence Lobdell presents, undercuts this suggestion.
 
Here's an announcement about The Nature of Middle-earth, one of the texts to be read in the course of this thread.

New Tolkien book: The Nature of Middle-earth – The Tolkien Society

Bookdepository is taking preorders -- other sources may also be taking advance orders.

The Nature of Middle-earth : J. R. R. Tolkien : 9780008387921 (bookdepository.com)

I'm not trying to drum up business for this outfit but do show that the book really is to be expected. This should be an exceptionally interesting release.
 

Back
Top