Tolkien related material

[paranoid marvin]

I thought it might be interesting to have a thread dedicated to recommendations and suggestions of Tolkein-related material, whether that be books, audio recordings or other stuff like maps/toys/games etc.

I will start with a couple of beautifully presented hard-back books in slip cases relating to 'The Art of' The Hobbit and (the more substantial) The Lord of the Rings by Wayne G.Hammond & Christina Scull. Included are sketches and pictures along with notes and comments by Tolkein in relation to the artistic depiction of Middle-earth, and also other fascinating things like Thror's Map and sketches for Moon Letters; even a little sketch of a knight fighting a dragon! All interesting stuff and quite reasonable at an RRP of £25.

Another interesting book is 'Journeys of Frodo: An Atlas of JRR Tolkein's The Lord of the Rings' by Barbara Strachey. It's an Atlas of maps showing Frodo and the Fellowship's journeys as they take place in the book. So you get a zoomed-in map of each section (51 in total) showing distances travelled along with dates and interesting local features (along with a brief description). With a RRP of a mere £8.99 I find this a useful companion when reading the book

 

[Extollager]

P. Marvin, there's a thread that's covered some of what you're interested in, here:

Essential and noteworthy Tolkien-related books, essays, recordings, etc

IMPORTANT BOOKS AND ARTICLES ON TOLKIEN AND MIDDLE-EARTH I’m bound to miss something with this first posting, especially in the category of individual essays rather than essay collections, but herewith a sincere response to J. D. Worthington’s request: Call for Reminiscences: The Earliest...

www.sffchronicles.com

 

[paranoid marvin]

P. Marvin, there's a thread that's covered some of what you're interested in, here:

Essential and noteworthy Tolkien-related books, essays, recordings, etc

IMPORTANT BOOKS AND ARTICLES ON TOLKIEN AND MIDDLE-EARTH I’m bound to miss something with this first posting, especially in the category of individual essays rather than essay collections, but herewith a sincere response to J. D. Worthington’s request: Call for Reminiscences: The Earliest...

www.sffchronicles.com

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Thanks!

 

[Hugh]

I may have stumbled across a book that could well have influenced or provided raw material for Tolkien in his creation of Gollum. I've done some limited googling, but haven't seen this elsewhere.

"The Log of the Ark" by Kenneth M. Walker and Geoffrey M. Boumphrey was a popular children's book first published in 1923, so it is very possible that Tolkien would have read this with his children (this was something he liked to do). It details how the animals and Noah fared on the Ark. There's a character in it known as the scub who sneaks last of all onto the ark at night. It had been shunned by all other animals ever since it had accidentally killed a rabbit by biting it while half-asleep, and thereby got the taste for blood. (It seems that at that time no animals killed others).
Here's the relevant text:
"From that day the life of the scub began to change. He grew to hate the light; and, leaving the sunny plains went to live in a gloomy cavern among the hills where he could find food nearest to what he craved - a blood-red fleshy toadstool, that grew in the damp rotting places of the rocks. And soon the rumour of his deed sprang to life - none knew whence -and spread among the beasts, until his name was spoken with loathing and then not at all.
Behold him now, and mark well how the body, grown loathsome, bore witness to the life he had lived. His colour - once a brave burnished green - had blanched to a pale sickly yellow, like the damp oozing fungus among which he had chosen to live. His body - once lithe and strong to gambol in the sun - had sunk and grown flabby with the years of foul living. His head - once held proudly erect, but now on sagging neck scarce off the ground - waved unceasingly from side to side as he peered around. Yet was all this as nothing to the evil of his face. Great pale eyes, too weak to bear the light of day, shuttered with heavy lids that never opened wide - nightmare eyes that looked none straight in the face, yet ever seemed to watch and leer and gloat.

 

[Extollager]

I haven't read "everything" on Tolkien, but this sure looks new to me. This is exciting, Hugh, and I hope you will "register" your find immediately. A good way to do this is to publish in the monthly Tolkienian newsletter Beyond Bree, which is received by some of the top Tolkienian scholars and would probably put your note into print within a few weeks of receipt. I will send you a private message about this.

 

[Hugh]

I can see the headlines now....

Another scoop for Chrons....

Pensioner stumbles on origin of Gollum....

Seriously, many thanks for your interest @Extollager. Perhaps this is exciting. I've messaged you saying if you have the interest/energy I'd be delighted if you want to pursue this.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

It is definitely exciting!

 

[Toby Frost]

That is interesting. I always wondered if Gollum owed something to the ghosts of MR James stories, and Gagool, the witch from King Solomon's Mines.

I'm sure I've heard the story of the Scub somewhere else. I think it might have been in an anthology of strange stories I had when I was a child, perhaps called Funny Peculiar. It also included a John Wyndham story about very small aliens that are mistaken for woodlice and an odd Victorian anecdote about a hovering woman.

 

[Extollager]

Toby, the Gagool > Gollum idea has indeed been discussed -- it might be that John Rateliff was the first to publish on that one.

I wrote “A Jamesian Source for Tolkien’s Conception of Gollum?” published in Beyond Bree Jan. 2009. My speculation was, specifically, that the haunter in "Canon Alberic's Scrap-Book," with McBryde's accompanying illustration of the haunter near the scholar at his desk, could have influenced Tolkien. From the expanded, critical edition of On Fairy-Stories we know that Tolkien knew the book. But Hugh's discovery here is really exciting, and how I wish that we could ask Christopher Tolkien or his sister about it. Just too late.

Is this the book you remember, Toby?

 

[Hugh]

Is this the book you remember, Toby?

View attachment 93853

The book cover depicts a scene from "The Log of the Ark" but by a different illustrator.

I am excited now. I feel sure that the origins of Gollum have a significant connection with the Scub in "The Log of the Ark" , but it's surprising that this doesn't seem to have been noted before.

 

[Hugh]

Here's my 1923 edition:

but I can see from Abebooks there've been subsequent editions with different artists: the most recent seems to be a penguin edition in 1968. This makes it all the more surprising if the similarity has not been noted before, but then 'The Log of the Ark' is aimed at a much younger readership.

To recap and expand slightly on my original posting, given there's more in the text than the section I quoted: my belief is there are just too many parallels between Gollum and the Scub for this to be a coincidence: the transition from a carefree sunny existence to a guilt-ridden one, eventually ending in shunning others and hiding in caves under the mountains, the thoughtless moment of killing another that began it all, the head movements, the eyes, the loathsome presence. Then there's the publication date of 1923 and Tolkien's young children - I loved this book when I was young and I'm sure they enjoyed it too.

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

Here's an interview from 1962

The channel providing the above video has many other Tolkien related videos

https://www.youtube.com/c/SidhAn%C3%ADron

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

Another couple of videos with archive footage

BBC Archival Footage-In Their Own Words British Authors J.R.R. Tolkien Part 1

BBC Archival Footage-In Their Own Words British Authors J.R.R. Tolkien Part 2

 

[Extollager]

Hugh, I even wondered if, supposing Tolkien read the book to one or more of his children, the sound of "scub" sounded a little like an unpleasant swallowing noise. Say it aloud -- see what I mean? It's almost onomatopoeic for a gulping sound.

 

[Hugh]

Hugh, I even wondered if, supposing Tolkien read the book to one or more of his children, the sound of "scub" sounded a little like an unpleasant swallowing noise. Say it aloud -- see what I mean? It's almost onomatopoeic for a gulping sound.

Hmmm. I don't know about this, but who knows....

It's easy to imagine the children playing around with the noise, but who knows....

I've always enjoyed images of him reading with his children.

 

[Hugh]

An update:

Thanks to @Extollager my posts (above) regarding a possible source for Gollum have now appeared in the October issue of Beyond Bree.

As this is widely circulated, we're now interested in whether there will be any significant feedback in the November issue.

 

[Toby Frost]

Is this the book you remember, Toby?

That is! It was one of the ones I took out very frequently from the library when I was small.

Yesterday I visited a friend who owns this copy of Farmer Giles of Ham. I hadn't realised how good the mock-medieval illustrations are. They remind me slightly of the cartoons in 1066 and All That.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Just treated myself to a facsimile gift edition of The Hobbit. It comes nicely packaged with a small map, CD with excerpts read by the author himself, a commemorative booklet and a reproduction of the 1st edition of the book. I'm not sure what differences JRRT made to the story, but it will be interesting to see if I can spot them. The book itself is a nice,small, hardback edition with the original dust jacket, but I do also like the hardback cover itself, which is a nice shade of green with dragon imprint. A nice touch is that the dust jacket has (what I assume is) the original price of '7s 6d'. Not too bad for a few pence over £35.

 

[Matteo]

I think I may have posted this before, but my "Millenium Edition" of the LOTR in seven hardback volumes...

includes a CD of Tolkien reading extracts from the book:

 

[Extollager]

Just treated myself to a facsimile gift edition of The Hobbit. It comes nicely packaged with a small map, CD with excerpts read by the author himself, a commemorative booklet and a reproduction of the 1st edition of the book. I'm not sure what differences JRRT made to the story, but it will be interesting to see if I can spot them. The book itself is a nice,small, hardback edition with the original dust jacket, but I do also like the hardback cover itself, which is a nice shade of green with dragon imprint. A nice touch is that the dust jacket has (what I assume is) the original price of '7s 6d'. Not too bad for a few pence over £35.

PM, is that the edition that has a recording of Tolkien reading the troll episode? How long does that run, if so? And (gulp) what's the ISBN for this package?