Age and the internet.

[Foxbat]

What prompted me to start this thread was a news item about Argos ceasing printing their catalogue in favour of online browsing. One director ( of another company) when interviewed said ‘everybody uses the internet’.
Err. No, they don’t. Internet usage in the UK is sitting around 90.64% and Age UK have statistics showing that around 4.2 million people over 65 don’t use it.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/reports-and-publications/reports-and-briefings/active-communities/rb_july16_older_people_and_internet_use_stats.pdf

That’s a lot of people and their purchasing power being discarded by companies with the attitude that ‘everybody does it now’.

So who’s missing out? The vendors or potential customers? Both probably.

Even among older users, the scope of their usage is extremely narrow and, funnily enough, as I get older,
I find my own width of usage shrinking dramatically. I visit a couple of forums, do a bit of shopping (not a lot and never grocery shopping online) and that’s about it for me. I don’t do very much else and my time online has shrunk dramatically in the last ten years. Writing this piece will have been the longest period online today.

So maybe I’m starting to drift into these Age UK numbers. Maybe I’m becoming a statistic.

There is something called ‘internet by proxy’ and my mum (who’s 80) falls into this bracket because I sometimes do a bit of shopping online for her (mainly her favourite mints, which are difficult to find in shops around here). Around 25% of elderly people do this. But what about the other 75%?

But I suppose the real point I’m trying to make is that many older folk are isolated already and don’t feel able to learn new skills. Or perhaps are a little scared of technology, or maybe just can’t afford monthly internet bills.

So, next time you’re Youtubing or whatever, have a think. Is there something an elderly relative or friend could do with when you’re online because, let’s face it, being able to help somebody out has got to be better than looking at the latest cute cat photos.

 

[Matteo]

I think the important question that comes to mind from your post, is

What are those mints?

But seriously, hence my "like", I agree with you (re. my own usage and your sentiment). Sadly, the relatively low numbers probably don't concern most companies - and the printing costs (especially for something like the brick that is the Argos catalogue - on which my wife broke her toe some years back...) must be substantial.

It would also help if companies made their sites less flashy and interactive and more simple to use and order products. That would encourage older people to use the internet. But that is not the direction things are going.

 

[Danny McG]

being able to help somebody out has got to be better than looking at the latest cute cat photos

Heresy! That's why we have an internet

 

[Venusian Broon]

Yeah, but as the report states 60% of the people that say they don't use the internet, the reason given is that they just don't need it. So they seem quite happy with things the way they are.

A quarter of people over 65 stated they used the internet by proxy so they are getting help as you state, and by a quick google, I see that about 400,000+ elderly people, therefore ~10% of your initial figure, live in care homes and are very likely to part of the non-internet part. That is rapidly accounting for most of the 4.2 million and most people seem either cared for or just not requiring the internet.


So what percentage of that number still use printed catalogues? I'd bet not many at all. (Catalogues are such a 70s memory for me. Haven't seen one in a good 40 years since then )

As for Argos, you have to use a pad to get anything from their stores anyway, which is essentially their website. They must have the numbers on how much trade they are getting from people using pen and paper from their catalogue or by phone (I assume, I'm not sure if Argos did the mail order thing as of now) so can make a economic decision based on that. Also if the reason you give is that people can't afford the monthly internet bills and so aren't on using internet, then that means they don't have the purchasing power that is likely to sway a big company.

Re Matteo's point. Actually I think websites are much easier to use now. My parents - aged 75 are using the internet and technology much more than they ever did when younger. They were part of the generation that mobile phones were definitely car phones and car phones only, but now are quite happy to be face down in whatsapp, setting up video calls or (definitely) buying on the internet. Purely anecdotal, I know, but I can remember the clunky monstrosities of the late 00's websites and e-commerce 1.0...

 

[Matteo]

My folks (same age) also use the internet - but complain about it (and my sister get's a lot of "how do you..." phone calls). I was also thinking that older people have older pcs/tablets/etc. that can't always handle the newer, flashier websites.

 

[HareBrain]

Catalogues are such a 70s memory for me. Haven't seen one in a good 40 years since then

My mum was an agent for Burlington. The number of hours I spent leafing through the catalogue** fitting out my "dream home" with all manner of tasteless 70s tat is beyond calculation. We're talking cheap chandeliers and globe-shaped drinks cabinets here. I was a very sophisticated ten-year-old.

**No, this isn't going where you think it's going

 

[Vladd67]

Yeah, but as the report states 60% of the people that say they don't use the internet, the reason given is that they just don't need it. So they seem quite happy with things the way they are.

A quarter of people over 65 stated they used the internet by proxy so they are getting help as you state, and by a quick google, I see that about 400,000+ elderly people, therefore ~10% of your initial figure, live in care homes and are very likely to part of the non-internet part. That is rapidly accounting for most of the 4.2 million and most people seem either cared for or just not requiring the internet.


So what percentage of that number still use printed catalogues? I'd bet not many at all. (Catalogues are such a 70s memory for me. Haven't seen one in a good 40 years since then )

As for Argos, you have to use a pad to get anything from their stores anyway, which is essentially their website. They must have the numbers on how much trade they are getting from people using pen and paper from their catalogue or by phone (I assume, I'm not sure if Argos did the mail order thing as of now) so can make a economic decision based on that. Also if the reason you give is that people can't afford the monthly internet bills and so aren't on using internet, then that means they don't have the purchasing power that is likely to sway a big company.

Re Matteo's point. Actually I think websites are much easier to use now. My parents - aged 75 are using the internet and technology much more than they ever did when younger. They were part of the generation that mobile phones were definitely car phones and car phones only, but now are quite happy to be face down in whatsapp, setting up video calls or (definitely) buying on the internet. Purely anecdotal, I know, but I can remember the clunky monstrosities of the late 00's websites and e-commerce 1.0...

I can remember seeing an episode of the gadget show where someone was sat in an empty house with only a computer with internet connection and a credit card and they had to compete with someone with a van and a credit card in furnishing the house. Of course now it is practically impossible to buy furniture in person from a store and take it away that day.

 

[-K2-]

I'd have no problem with the internet if the dang microphone would just work...

K2

 

[thaddeus6th]

I do think this'll start spreading to an extent down the demographic age bands as time passes. Some people won't want the internet much at all, others will just use it a little, and once the novelty wears off I wouldn't be surprised if online usage declines somewhat before levelling off.

It's immensely useful in lots of ways, but, like lots of technology, can have its value overestimated.

For what it's worth, I don't use it much beyond a standard set of sites.

 

[Foxbat]

The thing is about folk that think they don't need it...in many cases the choice is out of their hands. Society won't let them not need it. My mum being an example. She doesn't need it she says, but yesterday she got a letter about her car insurance. The company was offering her a partial refund because of the pandemic and because the car spent a long time not being used. It appears, however, that this can only be claimed online. So, although she doesn't need it, in some ways that are outwith her control, she does (and I suspect others will be in the same boat).

She was going to contact the company by phone today but i don't know the outcome yet.

I'll be honest, when it comes to doing things online like booking dental appointments, repeat prescriptions, direct debits etc. I absolutely detest it and would much rather interact with a human any day of the week. I keep my banking and stuff to an absolute minimum on the net because, frankly, I just don't trust it. I'll give an example - A few years ago I paid my credit card bill (£400 at the time) online only to be met with a message saying that an error had ocurred. Please try again. So I did and it worked. Amount paid. Then when I received my paper statement (I still insist on hardcopy) I found that I'd actually paid £800 and was £400 in credit. I just let it lie because it wouldn't break me financially but I called them and set up a direct debit instead to make sure something like that never happened again.

 

[Overread]

Banks are pushing for you to use the internet more and more as well, often as not the person behind the counter at your local branch isn't trained nor allowed to do all that much. Furthermore the other options are a telephone call which can be a VERY long time (even before corona slowed things down to snails pace) and be quite complicated to follow along with (not made easier by cheap lines and local accents from half a world away).

So the internet becomes the fastest and most convenient way to do things and sometimes, as noted above, the only way to easily do things.

I can see it reaching a point in my life time when the internet shifts into the same bracket as water and electricity as an essential utility. Sure if you don't pay they won't cut you off, but will throttle your speed to a snails pace etc...

 

[hitmouse]

For Argos this is a no-brainer, business-wise. I think it is already the 3rd biggest online retailer in the UK. The catalogue is expensive to produce, and must give diminishing returns. I have to say the experience of shopping at an Argos store is an odd and unsatisfying one for me.

 

[Foxbat]

I can see it reaching a point in my life time when the internet shifts into the same bracket as water and electricity as an essential utility. Sure if you don't pay they won't cut you off, but will throttle your speed to a snails pace etc...

I think in many ways, it’s probably already at this point. It’s just that a lot of folk (myself included) don’t quite grasp that yet or are just too stuck in the old ways.

 

[Dave]

I understand the sentiment @Foxbat but I expect that among that 4.2 million people over 65 there will be a large proportion that cannot read the print in the catalogue because it is too small: or are unable to live independently and so would have someone else order for them. The cost saving for Argos must be huge and Amazon et al do not produce paper catalogues. When you visit the Argos shop in person it is quite easy to search at their terminals in-store (I did this recently and it is better because half the products are out of stock in any case).

The wider issue of the internet now being indispensable i.e. for banking and paying bills is how to teach those 4.2 million people over 65 who can still live independently how to use it is a valid one and there used to be silver surfers classes.

The other issue of the death of the High Street is also important. In another life I used to be involved in trying to revive a High Street and we came to the conclusion that High Streets must become destinations in their own right, where the experience of shopping i.e. market trading and activities made it a pleasant and exciting interactive experience. Lower business rates, parking charges and rents are also key as online shops obviously don't pay any, but even achieving that isn't enough. However, I used to hear from from people who wanted us to return to some golden age they had dreamed of when every High Street had an independent butcher, baker and candlestick maker. This is totally unrealistic, mainly because it was those exact same people who never shopped at those shops when they were in the High Street, but instead went out of town, online and to supermarkets. The High Street can only survive if people actually support it by buying things. It can't be just a museum.

 

[Vladd67]

We are so lucky in our village, population around 3500, we have a chemist, a Co op, a small corner shop, a butchers, a Chinese take away / fish and chip shop, an Indian take away, an Indian restaurant / take away, a butchers / grocers, two barbers, a hair dressers, two estate agents, a vets, a pub, and a shoe shop. Until recently we had a hardware store but the owner retired, and a florist who also retired. The post office used to be in its own small shop but has been moved into the chemist. We also used to have a micro brewery but that too has closed its brands now being produced by a brewery in Northampton. Our high street is a special place for the village and has actually seen an increase in business since the lock down as people find it too much hassle to shop in town. With respect to age and the internet I have noticed more supermarket delivery vans in the village so more people must be shopping on line, though our local butcher has moved with the times and has a website where you can place orders which they then deliver.

 

[Foxbat]

This is totally unrealistic, mainly because it was those exact same people who never shopped at those shops when they were in the High Street, but instead went out of town, online and to supermarkets. The High Street can only survive if people actually support it by buying things. It can't be just a museum.

How true. I invested in a local community run high street baker (along with many others) and it's surviving but not really thriving because most folk would prefer to go to Asda etc. or order food online. There was a lot of vocal support for the community bakery but that didn't really translate into footfall. Also, and here's the clincher, sales have suffered because local hotels prefer to buy their bread from the local Asda. Granted, Asda can produce and sell in greater volume and therefore be cheaper. Last year was poor and the next couple of years will probably be crucial for the business. I don't expect it to survive with another poor year and this pandemic might just kill it off.

At least I can say I put my money where my mouth is

 

[Matteo]

We also used to have a micro brewery but that too has closed its brands now being produced by a brewery in Northampton.

Shame. Any change in quality?

 

[Vladd67]

Don’t know haven’t seen it on sale anywhere

 

[-K2-]

They say you can get food through the internet. But, I have to tell you, when I lick the monitor it just tastes like dirty plastic to me


K2

 

[.matthew.]

We have to remember as well that however 'nice' local shops might be, the fact remains that big companies can be cheaper and more diverse, while the internet even more so. All hail the internet