The Inexorable Rise 1.2.1.3 - (last post, I promise!!!!) PERSPECTIVE CHANGE

BT Jones

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Okay, @Jo Zebedee, @Joshua Jones, @DLCroix, @tinkerdan, @Narcissus, @The Judge (and anyone else vaguely interested). This is actually the crux of what I wanted feedback on in the first place. This is the point where we jump from IC's (amnesiac and freshly woken) perspective to the group that have been up and about for a few hours. It's just the transition between the two perspectives. Does it work? The key think I have tried to do to link what the reader has gleaned from IC's limited observations is link the physical characteristics as well as the prominence of the figures within the quarrel.




“I’m not runnin’ away. I’m gonna find something useful to do that isn’t in the same room as you, pen-coc!” vented Nowuh, departing through the right-hand door – his simianesque face as intense as his lurid red, yellow and black hooped armour.

“Good God, the head on ye, man,” barked Goz, following him into the common area. “Ye are abandoning the debate.”

“It’s a blazing row I’m abandoning, not a bloody debate,” scoffed Nowuh, whirling about, defiance renewed. “Whatever you want to call it, it’s gone on long enough.”

“Oh, ‘tis rich when ‘twas ye who’s kept it going on this long!” exclaimed Goz, standing his ground, hands on hips – his pumpkin skin ripening.

“Fellas, fellas… Come on, now,” reasoned Dehmoe, walking between the two men again.

“Only ‘cos I don’t bloody agree with ya,” riled Nowuh. “What, am I just supposed to shut up and accept your point of view – is that it?”

“Ye could start by acknowledging it!” demanded Goz.

“I have acknowledged it, Goz, I just think you’re bloody-well wrong, don’t I,” despaired Nowuh, spinning off into the room.

Head in hands, he walked over to the pseudo-serving hatch to the utility room and let his predominantly black aeronaut-style helmet drop lifelessly onto it.

“Wrong to expect a man to do his job?” spat Goz, boss-eyes inflating still further.

“…with your foul shadow constantly blockin’ the light, bloody yeah!” despaired Nowuh, slamming the worktop and wheeling around. “Iesu Mawr!”

“Hours, you’ve had to do your job, and ye have the gall to dig me out for doing mine!” vented Goz.

“There’s leading a team, Goz, and there’s bein’ a bloody tyrant! Rulin’ with an iron fist is som’n that died out a bloody century ago!”

“It gets results, though, does it not?” argued Goz. “’tis a typical attitude of your type; decrying a problem ye are helpless to solve, then condemning the man that solves it for you for his chosen methods.”

In the background a minor commotion prompted Rorr, watching from a safe distance in the doorway to the forward room, to turn back toward where the quarrel had first ignited.

“My type?” checked Nowuh, stalking back over to face the barrel-chested man. “You want types, boyo… The pointing fingers; the venom; the sneers; the looks – it’s the act of arguin’ your type live for. Bollocks to what it’s actually about, as long as you get to spray your half-litre of saliva up the walls every bloody day. It’s the only way you knob-ends can justify your existence.”

“Me justify my existence?” raged Goz, looming forward, his green hammerhead-style helmet almost clipping Nowuh’s. “What single thing have ye done to justify yours, tell me that.”

“If you shut your pie hole for one bloody minute, I might be able to think straight long enough to work out how this place works.”

“Assuming this guy doesn’t work it out first,” remarked Rorr.

All heads turned to the exotic young man leant casually against the doorframe, striking as ever with his chiseled good looks and dazzling red-fringed electric indigo armour – although the aloof swagger was decidedly forced. And it took for the inevitable question to be on the tip of his colleagues’ collective tongue for him to thumb casually over his shoulder toward whomever had triggered the comment in the front room.

“CTO,” he added, before turning into the room. “What up, oi?”

As the others made tracks to join him, Rorr moved closer to the newcomer, who was stood with their back to him, tracing the left-hand wing of the slanted bench. Short, with a posture simultaneously taut and languid, their vivid sky blue and ultramarine bodywork rivaled his for wicked cool, particularly the alternating hoops on the upper body.

“About bloody time you woke up, you lazy bugger,” jested Nowuh, walking in to lean against the back wall, and looking pleased to be able to smile again.

“Morning, sleepy head,” chirped Dehmoe, walking through next, similarly enthused by the alleviation of hostilities.

Goz, last to enter, still wore a look of thunder, however, albeit a more cautious shade.

“Nothing to say, horse?” he prodded, pushing past to the front of the pack. “I would have thought ye’d be desperate to make a contribution after so long on your backside sleeping your life away.”

But still the stranger did not respond, not even turning to acknowledge the remark. Instead, they moved to the forwardmost seat, before crouching to run their hands over a curious greenstone-faced cupboard tucked beneath the lifeless console.

Goz spun around, eager to share his umbrage at the newcomer’s apathy with the others, only to find them oblivious to any affront and perhaps now even mildly amused by his indignation, especially Nowuh. Inevitably, it was Aeiro, still sat to the left of the room, that bore the brunt of Goz’s rage – the humdrum man in plain white being the recipient of an accusatory glare, no doubt at his failure to alert them of the sixth member of the team’s awakening.

“Well, I guess some of us are just a little more ‘bear with sore feet’ in the morning, am I right?” bubbled Dehmoe, wisely sliding between Goz and the stranger. “Anyhoo, you just take your time and speak when you’re good and ready.”

“Take your time?” choked Goz, incredulously. “Is one hour more shut-eye than the rest of us not time enough already?”

“Well, it’s not as if it’s his fault, is it,” reasoned Nowuh. “There’s no rhyme or reason to these awakenin’s, evidently.”

“Yeah, I mean… I was up an hour… before you – almost,” ventured Aeiro, timidly, and instantly regretting it.

“And what did ye do with all that time, eh?” seethed Goz, looming over him, hands outstretched. “F#$k all, that’s what. Ye’d do well to remember that before making smart comments.”

“Leave him alone, man,” defended Rorr, stepping forward. “You’re always picking on him.”

“It’s ‘cos he’s a useless excuse for a human being, but ye are not too far behind him,” vented Goz, turning on the young man.

Seditious glare met repressive stare, but the sudden rise of the newcomer from beneath the bench popped the tension and prompted contrasting brow movements at the sight of their face for the first time.

“Hey… man,” greeted Rorr, before following the gaze of the stranger – IC20 – to the back-left corner of the room.

Goz seemed to have a pertinent question on his lips until the newcomer ghosted straight past him to whatever they’d seen, poking a metaphorical stick into his hornet’s nest on the way.

“Are ye not going to say a damned word?” fumed Goz. “Not even a ‘hello’?”

The response was, again, a silent one as the stranger walked toward the corner of the room, pausing momentarily to glance back through the dormitory doorway at the six glass-topped capsules, before sizing up a rectangular metal box – greenstone-faced like almost everything else – mounted on the wall between a white wooden cabinet and a stylish light panel.

“Incredible,” muttered Goz, staggered to still be the only one irked by the newcomer’s behaviour.

“I dunno, I find our friend’s taciturn nature bloody refresh’n, to be honest,” chuckled Nowuh. “One less voice to compete with yours, Goz; I thought you’d be happy.”

“Not if I’m to write out a damned questionnaire for him to fill out to get any answers,” snapped Goz, lasering a look of pure scorn back at Nowuh. “Happiness would be a useful contribution from any of you langers!”

With perfect synchronicity, IC pushed the face of the box which flicked up to expose a small recessed compartment sporting an array of fuse-like objects and one large crimson switch. Instinctively depressing the round green button next to it, IC toggled the switch… and a hibernating electronic beast awakened. Ambient lights brightened, monitor screens lit up and the room filled with the buzz and hum of a computerised orchestra sound-checking its instruments. Capping it off was the near-instantaneous freshening of the mildly stifling air by a reanimated air-conditioning system.

The stranger span on the spot, but where smugness, satisfaction or joy might have been expected, there was only an air of weary, stone-faced indifference, and the merest parting of the lips.

“Like that?” she checked.

 
Just to clarify before giving some thoughts, does this section immediately follow the last section you posted, or is there material in between?
 
Just to clarify before giving some thoughts, does this section immediately follow the last section you posted, or is there material in between?
Yes, this immediately follows the preceding section, where IC watches the start of this same argument, then walks through the door into that same room as the argument moves off.
 
Yes, this immediately follows the preceding section, where IC watches the start of this same argument, then walks through the door into that same room as the argument moves off.
Ok, sounds good, I just wanted to make sure.

Let me start off by saying I'm rather biased, as all of my WiPs currently use a close 3rd POV. I'll try to keep this bias in check.

That said, taking these sections as stand alone, it is rather jarring to me. I don't have the context to know the connections between the now named characters and the descriptions of the characters in the previous part. If these characters were introduced in the previous act (which I seem to remember being the case), I could probably pick up where this was left earlier. But, just taking these as one scene, I would be confused beyond the handful of hints dropped and the express alphanumerical name given for the "stranger".

To me, I feel like this perspective shift would make more sense to be between chapters, rather than in the middle of one. You have a natural break point (when she goes through the door) and being the scene is shifting, the perspective shift would seem a bit more natural. I think this would apply whether or not I have context for these characters.

All that said, is there a particular reason you don't stick with a close 3rd? Again, it could be my bias, but I like this character's voice, and could definitely see following it through the rest of the act. Ultimately, the omni works too, but I really liked the close 3rd sections from before.

I know the specific request was regarding the POV shift, but would a line by line or general critique be helpful to you as well?
 
Ok, sounds good, I just wanted to make sure.

Let me start off by saying I'm rather biased, as all of my WiPs currently use a close 3rd POV. I'll try to keep this bias in check.

That said, taking these sections as stand alone, it is rather jarring to me. I don't have the context to know the connections between the now named characters and the descriptions of the characters in the previous part. If these characters were introduced in the previous act (which I seem to remember being the case), I could probably pick up where this was left earlier. But, just taking these as one scene, I would be confused beyond the handful of hints dropped and the express alphanumerical name given for the "stranger".

To me, I feel like this perspective shift would make more sense to be between chapters, rather than in the middle of one. You have a natural break point (when she goes through the door) and being the scene is shifting, the perspective shift would seem a bit more natural. I think this would apply whether or not I have context for these characters.

All that said, is there a particular reason you don't stick with a close 3rd? Again, it could be my bias, but I like this character's voice, and could definitely see following it through the rest of the act. Ultimately, the omni works too, but I really liked the close 3rd sections from before.

I know the specific request was regarding the POV shift, but would a line by line or general critique be helpful to you as well?
Thanks Josh. Line by line would be cool, but I wouldn't expect you to go through the whole thing.

Yes, it would definitely help if you had read at least the last couple of paragraphs of part 2 before reading this, as a segue.

In terms of perspective chance, IC's section isn't really long enough for a chapter in its own right (2,400 words) and there is a ying-yang between her perspective and the omi for the rest of the chapter (5 sections, going IC / Omin / IC / Omin / IC).

Perspective change is my thing. Everyone gets a say and everyone gets to really show how their mind works. Maybe it's too much for some. Some are 3rd person / present. Some are 3rd person past. Some are 1st person past. All-in-all, there are 9 different perspectives in this entire act. I like the constantly changing perspectives but, again, I'm not the one reading it. I just find events presented the same way from the same perspective can get a little tiring, but this is just personal and I actually don't read much.
 
Thanks Josh. Line by line would be cool, but I wouldn't expect you to go through the whole thing.

Yes, it would definitely help if you had read at least the last couple of paragraphs of part 2 before reading this, as a segue.

In terms of perspective chance, IC's section isn't really long enough for a chapter in its own right (2,400 words) and there is a ying-yang between her perspective and the omi for the rest of the chapter (5 sections, going IC / Omin / IC / Omin / IC).

Perspective change is my thing. Everyone gets a say and everyone gets to really show how their mind works. Maybe it's too much for some. Some are 3rd person / present. Some are 3rd person past. Some are 1st person past. All-in-all, there are 9 different perspectives in this entire act. I like the constantly changing perspectives but, again, I'm not the one reading it. I just find events presented the same way from the same perspective can get a little tiring, but this is just personal and I actually don't read much.
Ok, I'll try to do a line by line of this section at least, but it will probably be the weekend or early next week before I have the free time to do so. If someone else posts one which I don't have many differences in opinion from, I'll defer to them.

Interesting approach on the alternations between perspectives! I think I would have to read it in it's entirety to be able to intelligently comment on how well it works. TBH, I'm nearly always skeptical of a perspective change mid chapter, although I have seen this done with a double line break to make it clear a new scene is starting. That said, I try to avoid being dogmatic, especially when it comes to things which I haven't read. It may fall into a natural cadence which I'm currently having a hard time picturing.

So, yeah, I'll do a more thorough critique soon, and I hope to see more of this!
 
Ok, I'll try to do a line by line of this section at least, but it will probably be the weekend or early next week before I have the free time to do so. If someone else posts one which I don't have many differences in opinion from, I'll defer to them.

Interesting approach on the alternations between perspectives! I think I would have to read it in it's entirety to be able to intelligently comment on how well it works. TBH, I'm nearly always skeptical of a perspective change mid chapter, although I have seen this done with a double line break to make it clear a new scene is starting. That said, I try to avoid being dogmatic, especially when it comes to things which I haven't read. It may fall into a natural cadence which I'm currently having a hard time picturing.

So, yeah, I'll do a more thorough critique soon, and I hope to see more of this!
Thanks Joshua. I certainly can't ask any more of you or anyone else here in terms of the time you give. Any time is greatly appreciated. But I should point out that my word styles gallery has a font style for "Separator" which (for Story 1) is a giant red equals sign. This separates all mid-chapter perspective changes.

I can't really recreate it here but I feel that it works.

Thanks again.
 
Since you mentioned to others a line by line would be welcome...

I'm a picky...

I use

Red Remove
Blue Comment
Green Suggest

I'm not a publication expert - These are just my opinions and they should be thrown in the bin. However, they may point out things you might agree with.

Okay, @Jo Zebedee, @Joshua Jones, @DLCroix, @tinkerdan, @Narcissus, @The Judge (and anyone else vaguely interested). This is actually the crux of what I wanted feedback on in the first place. This is the point where we jump from IC's (amnesiac and freshly woken) perspective to the group that have been up and about for a few hours. It's just the transition between the two perspectives. Does it work? The key think I have tried to do to link what the reader has gleaned from IC's limited observations is link the physical characteristics as well as the prominence of the figures within the quarrel.

Firstly - All this demanded scoffed and vented attribution to me reads badly. Someone said - possibly S King said, keep your attribution mainly to "he said" "she said" or "Fred said". That using mannerisms as part of the attribution detracts the reader and also, to me interfers with who's saying what.

"despaired Nowuh" is just wrong in the extreme to me.



“I’m not runnin’ away. I’m gonna find something useful to do that isn’t in the same room as you, pen-coc!” vented Nowuh, departing through the right-hand door – his simianesque face as intense as his lurid red, yellow and black hooped armour.

“Good God, the head on ye, man,” barked Goz, following him into the common area. “Ye are abandoning the debate.”

“It’s a blazing row I’m abandoning, not a bloody debate,” scoffed Nowuh, whirling about, defiance renewed. “Whatever you want to call it, it’s gone on long enough.”

“Oh, ‘tis rich when ‘twas ye who’s kept it going on this long!” exclaimed Goz, standing his ground, hands on hips – his pumpkin skin ripening.

“Fellas, fellas… Come on, now,” reasoned Dehmoe, walking between the two men again.

“Only ‘cos I don’t bloody agree with ya,” riled Nowuh. “What, am I just supposed to shut up and accept your point of view – is that it?”

“Ye could start by acknowledging it!” demanded Goz.

“I have acknowledged it, Goz, I just think you’re bloody-well wrong, don’t I,” despaired Nowuh, spinning off into the room. (like in a waltz?)

Head in hands, (xray vision?) he walked over to the pseudo-serving (what's a pseudo serving hatch and why can't it just be a serving hatch) hatch to the utility room and let his predominantly black aeronaut-style helmet drop lifelessly onto it. (when was it alive ?)

“Wrong to expect a man to do his job?” spat Goz, boss-eyes inflating still further.

“…with your foul shadow constantly blockin’ the light, bloody yeah!” despaired Nowuh, slamming the worktop and wheeling around. “Iesu Mawr!”

...

As mentioned, over use of verbalised attibution. This is also quite often wrongly described.

With "despaired Nowuh" it's followed by head in hands indicating the despair, but in actuallity he's just had a right good go at Goz which hardly indicated despair.

I think you're trying to get too much out of this exchange. I can't remember if I saw the previous section but IMO you should have established physical attributes of the charaters before they have a blazing row.

The actual content of the row is OK. But by the time you've read the extra description that gets tagged on the reader forgets what the row is about.

You are also inconsistant with the Ye's: quite often having ye and you in the same sentense. Accents are really difficult to do well and if the only hint at it is "ye" I don't see the point.

Hope I helped

Tein.
 
This has a lot of great quality to it that is being disrupted by tom swift-ies.

I'll be brief because the whole thing is rife with this stuff.

I agree that he said, she said, ___said are preferable in most cases and that perhaps no dialogue attribute would be better in some cases; however you have to be careful and also have to look into what is causing the problem

I’m not runnin’ away. I’m gonna find something useful to do that isn’t in the same room as you, pen-coc!” vented Nowuh, departing through the right-hand door – his simianesque face as intense as his lurid red, yellow and black hooped armour.
This for instance--you are worried that the venting will not be noticeable so you lead the reader by including it so that there is no shadow of doubt.
Maybe you don't trust the reader, maybe you are afraid the the scene loses power without this knowledge. But maybe if you can show enough you won't need that misplaced dialogue tag.

"I’m not runnin’ away. I’m gonna find something useful to do that isn’t in the same room as you, pen-coc!” Nowuh's simianesque face was as intense as his hurid red, yellow and black hooped armour, as he turned and strut toward the right-hand door.

You already have the exclamation point and the description of his face to lead the reader in the right direction here.

You should consider examining all your tags and not necessarily change them all, just consider how you can show what the word means instead. And if you keep that word then drop some of the extraneous description; because the only reason to keep the word is that it is so strong it doesn't need anything more to support it.

I'm not sure there is a reason or justification for splitting the point of view in this piece. You might want to examine the why--why do I need a different POV and then also look at how can you do this from a single POV--if the POV leaves the scene then you could or it might be a good time to leave the scene.
 
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Thanks @TheEndIsNigh and @tinkerdan. I think it was also the great Elmore Leonard that said:

Never use a verb other than ''said'' to carry dialogue.

The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But said is far less intrusive than grumbled, gasped, cautioned, lied. I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with ''she asseverated,'' and had to stop reading to get the dictionary.


And I think you are probably right, Tinkerdan: I don't trust the reader and am constantly leading / directing. This has been levelled at me more than once and I think i need to take note of that, so thanks.

My instinct with always having a dialogue tag is so that there's never any confusion as to who is saying what. There are books I've read when it's not been clear who is saying the line because there are no tags, and more than two people in the room. Also, when it is just two people in the room, sometimes the writer writes 2 consecutive lines by the same person, rather than following the 'he said', 'she said' alternation one would expect.

But, yes, I can definitely see where you are coming from straight away. This is valuable constructive criticism and I think I will adopt this approach moving forward.

As to the perspective change, you echo what @Joshua Jones said. I guess its hard to really get a feel for if it works when you are reading it in pieces. Part of the reason the perspective shifts is because:
  1. in Act 1, we've already done the slowburn, learn everything through the eyes of the central character bit, so I wanted to do something different
  2. A lot more happens in Act 2, more characters, more action, so I wanted this one to flow quicker.
  3. IC goes into the room and the conversation leaves, so if the perspective stayed with her, we wouldn't see the argument. I was just wondering whether I could ditch the exchange and have them all walk back in on her, but I just didn't want it to be from her perspective. She is busy in the zone following her instincts. I wanted to show the reactions and how differently all these people are seeing / thinking / acting.
I guess this is where it gets hard. I don't read a lot of books. In terms of fiction, I've definitely not read more than 20 in my entire life. So, this means I have less idea on what other people write than almost everyone else on the planet. But, I guess, is writing about just giving people a new story with new characters in the same style? I don't know. I'm not trying to be arrogant here, and it has massively helped me reading the challenges and getting the critiques. I suppose, it's just a fine line between giving people what you think they want and writing what feels right to you.

I guess this is a fairly major issue that I either need to stick to my guns on or surrender to!

See, just now reading Elmore Leonard's 10 writing tips makes me wonder whether I shouldn't go back to the drawing board altogether.
 
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Dear Mods sorry if this looks like critiquing critiques.

Don't go back to the drawing board - Unless you're going to switch to graphic novels. :)

I think @tinkerdan 's example shows it all.

As another:-

“Leave him alone, man,” defended Rorr, stepping forward. “You’re always picking on him.”

"defended" isn't needed. The content of the intervention implies he's defending him. Also the "stepping forward" is superfluous unless he's actually sticking himself between the two, which isn't what is described. It's almost like you're including stage directions which jars against the reader's mental picture of what's going on. Also with dialogue I find too much action makes it difficult to keep track of who's speaking and where they are in the scene.

and so it becomes:-

“Leave him alone, man,” said Rorr, “you’re always picking on him.”

Now my mental picture has some geezer slouched on a sofa, sticking his oar into an argument becasue he thinks one guy is getting too annal about another guy.

or

The commander has had enough and is intervening with his authourity to "casually" stop this before it gets to fisticuffs.


The relavence and importance of the intervention will have been established earlier where we've been "shown" the authority Rorr has to affect the exchange.

I also agree with @tinkerdan 's argument on POV.

Hope I helped

Tein
 
Dear Mods sorry if this looks like critiquing critiques.

Don't go back to the drawing board - Unless you're going to switch to graphic novels. :)

I think @tinkerdan 's example shows it all.

As another:-

“Leave him alone, man,” defended Rorr, stepping forward. “You’re always picking on him.”

"defended" isn't needed. The content of the intervention implies he's defending him. Also the "stepping forward" is superfluous unless he's actually sticking himself between the two, which isn't what is described. It's almost like you're including stage directions which jars against the reader's mental picture of what's going on. Also with dialogue I find too much action makes it difficult to keep track of who's speaking and where they are in the scene.

and so it becomes:-

“Leave him alone, man,” said Rorr, “you’re always picking on him.”

Now my mental picture has some geezer slouched on a sofa, sticking his oar into an argument becasue he thinks one guy is getting too annal about another guy.

or

The commander has had enough and is intervening with his authourity to "casually" stop this before it gets to fisticuffs.


The relavence and importance of the intervention will have been established earlier where we've been "shown" the authority Rorr has to affect the exchange.

I also agree with @tinkerdan 's argument on POV.

Hope I helped

Tein
Thanks Tein. I definitely get your drift here and I am totally on-board with the excessive stage directions. I am totally guilty of that and I will try and tone that down going forward.

It's a tough gig, this writing!
 
Just a quick point to agree with TEIN and Tinkerdan on the stage directions. Basically, everything can safely default to "said", with a "replied" every so often. If two characters are talking and we know who's who, you often don't need anything except the quotes.

The big exception, I think, is where the dialogue and "said"/"replied" don't reveal the full situation - for instance where there's sarcasm, or something is said louder or more quietly than would otherwise be apparent. In that situation, go for it - although personally, I still think it's more elegant to show it from the context, rather than adding "sarcastically" or "he yelled" or the equivalent.

Another thought: personally, I don't really like words like "he vented" because to me, that implies that the person is somehow literally expelling air, rather than venting his anger. But I suspect that's just me.

Anyway, that aside, I think it reads pretty well. There are a few small things but I reckon with practice and confidence (and more reading!) it will get there. If I was to suggest any reading, I'd probably nominate Raymond Chandler's crime stories, because the dialogue, while rather of its time and style, is pretty good.
 
Just a quick point to agree with TEIN and Tinkerdan on the stage directions. Basically, everything can safely default to "said", with a "replied" every so often. If two characters are talking and we know who's who, you often don't need anything except the quotes.

The big exception, I think, is where the dialogue and "said"/"replied" don't reveal the full situation - for instance where there's sarcasm, or something is said louder or more quietly than would otherwise be apparent. In that situation, go for it - although personally, I still think it's more elegant to show it from the context, rather than adding "sarcastically" or "he yelled" or the equivalent.

Another thought: personally, I don't really like words like "he vented" because to me, that implies that the person is somehow literally expelling air, rather than venting his anger. But I suspect that's just me.

Anyway, that aside, I think it reads pretty well. There are a few small things but I reckon with practice and confidence (and more reading!) it will get there. If I was to suggest any reading, I'd probably nominate Raymond Chandler's crime stories, because the dialogue, while rather of its time and style, is pretty good.
Thanks Toby. Yes, I think the jury is officially in on the 'said'. As of today, I am dialing it right down. I will try very hard to trust the reader!
 
I know what you mean, but I think they can pick up quite a lot, especially when it comes down to the "feel" of a story.
Yeah, I wish it didn't take me so long to understand this! I can be a rather stubborn sort at times, and I think it held me back for years. But, that's what makes this forum so valuable to me; there are so many talented writers and reviewers that comment on this thread (then, of course, there's me...) that the feedback is of incalculable value.

@BT Jones, I'm also with TEIN, especially on this...
Don't go back to the drawing board - Unless you're going to switch to graphic novels. :)
I think you have something fun and interesting. I'd probably read it. Editing is difficult work, and you may find some sections which need to be rewritten, but I haven't seen anything posted yet which would cause me to believe you can't pull this off.

That said, I actually could see this as a graphic novel... not suggesting you change format, but it would be doable...
 
S
Yeah, I wish it didn't take me so long to understand this! I can be a rather stubborn sort at times, and I think it held me back for years. But, that's what makes this forum so valuable to me; there are so many talented writers and reviewers that comment on this thread (then, of course, there's me...) that the feedback is of incalculable value.

@BT Jones, I'm also with TEIN, especially on this...

I think you have something fun and interesting. I'd probably read it. Editing is difficult work, and you may find some sections which need to be rewritten, but I haven't seen anything posted yet which would cause me to believe you can't pull this off.

That said, I actually could see this as a graphic novel... not suggesting you change format, but it would be doable...
Believe it or not, Joshua, I have the comic book originals for this story that I drew in my first years of High School aged 11 sitting right next to me in the draw. It's come a long way since then!!!!

And thanks again for your words. You guys genuinely help keep my spirits how through my occasional lows with your support!
 
As everyone has already pointed out, the euphemisms for "said" are a bit over the top. They detract from the flow of the story.

Have a little trouble following the plot. But that's because of my marked lack of perspicacious reasoning. As I understand, these are six people who were in coffin-like beds. They've just woke up, and they don't know each other?? Why are they immediately hostile toward one another?? Wouldn't they try to figure out what's going on before they got riled?? What exactly are they arguing about??

And what happened to the girl?? She's standing there watching them?? She's somehow in a different category from them?? Maybe she's the exec and they're the grunts??

Sorry I'm not more help. But I'm really not tracking the action.
 
Hi, BT! Yes, the doubts that have been mentioned above I also had when reading this fragment; so I waited to see if other colleagues detected the same thing.
As for the "said", I highly recommend you read On Writing by Stephen King.

My other comment is about reading. I even often chipping a 400-page novel to splinters in two days. Personally, I think reading is just as important as writing; it should be half the time, actually. Because one learns; even when I read bad books, I learn how way I NOT must to write bad books. I leave it as a suggestion, if you want to improve on this. In fact, your writing is excellent, as I noted in the two previous passages, but it is as if you were putting a poet to write a novel: just like you, you display a superb command of words, concepts, fabulation, lyrical play, but that could still be seen better if you also it is reflected in a solid narrative structure, which considers all those aspects of dialogue, labels, descriptions, etc.

Hope this help. :giggle:
 
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