Does genre define audience and hence main character type?

StevenF

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Hi. As another beginner aspiring writer - or at least one trying to work out if I like writing as much as the idea of writing - I have been researching and reading various writing related articles such as character development and story arcs and so on. One thing which is coming up a lot is about your expected audience, and I've been wondering about character 'type'. I'm not sure how best to phrase this question but it might be 'Does genre define audience and hence main character type?

Or a more wordy version might be, should a story's main character 'match' that which a 'typical' reader (whoever they are), might expect from such a novel genre or theme?
For the story I've been imagining and writing up notes for (which seems to be what is called a portal fantasy), I'd originally planned the main character to be middle aged-ish, when the story itself might lend itself more to a younger adult reader for example. I've been see-sawing on their attributes and what conflicts and stakes there are, as they might change depending on their age.

And I wonder this as I (perhaps falsely) presume that a younger adult might prefer or find it easier to imagine themselves as the main character and relate to them better if they were also young thus enjoying the story more. When I was younger I'm pretty sure the books I read all had a main character of a similar and relatable age, and not middle aged or older.

Am I wondering too much about nothing? If I like these kinds of stories myself and am long past being a young adult (I like to think :) then surely I've answered my own question already?

I'm all onboard with just writing what you want to write but am new to the whole character development thing and hope I'm not overlooking anything obvious.

Thanks!
 
I'm sure most writers encounter this dilemma. I know I've been there!

The most obvious thing to do when in two minds - in my opinion - is to write the book you want to write and worry about all the genre, readership and marketing issues when you finish. Once you allow outside factors to influence your intentions in this situation, my feeling is that the book you have in mind could be compromised.

It's different when you have a clear idea of what is required and your intended market, as those considerations can guide and enhance the work, but it sounds like you should let your instincts about the story guide you until such time as things become clear. And they generally do over time!
 
I don't write YA and I don't read much of it** so take the following with a good pinch of salt, but from what I've seen and heard YA novels cling to YA protagonists and deal with YA preoccupations. So I'd agree with you that writing a middle-aged main character isn't going to attract the majority of YA readers -- ie those who are themselves young adults -- even if the novel has YA themes and story lines. You might get readers who are middle-aged but who still enjoy reading YA, but quite how you'd market the book specifically to them I don't know.

However, to my mind worrying about genre and where your novel will fit on library shelves is a little premature at this stage when you've not yet started to write. Yes it's important to know one's market, but it's more important right now for you simply to write and gain experience -- you need to learn your craft and find your voice. It may be as you write you'll discover that you don't want to write YA after all, or that the themes you're drawn to or the voice you adopt aren't in fact YA material. Conversely your middle-aged character might morph into a 20 yo as you're writing, perhaps even literally if it's fantasy!

So I'd suggest you put these concerns aside for another day. When you've written your book, and put it through several edits and revisions, set it aside for a good while, then come back to it and read it yourself and see how it hangs together. Then seek out beta readers who know what they're talking about and listen to their views on whether it's YA. Until you get to that stage, just write and read, write and read!

In any event, good luck with it!


** in fact I'd read none at all if I kept my wits about me a little more, since I'm occasionally tempted by covers without checking the contents, and I end up buying books I wouldn't have touched had I realised in advance they were YA. Unfortunately, the experience of reading them has never encouraged me to go out and buy more deliberately.
 
I agree with The Judge. I also understand that, to be classed as YA in terms of sales, it's pretty much obligatory to have a YA lead character. But it also seems to me that you really should write exactly what you want, and figure it out from there. The differentiation between a YA and middle aged protagonist could have major effects on what you write and how you write it, so for this especially I'd suggest just going with what you prefer.
 
Hi! No matter how planned you have a scheme, no matter how much you know the story, you must be aware that at the time of writing your brain carries out a completely autonomous creative process. Even if you have done some kind of previous programming regarding that process; for example, memorize the conditions of a literature contest, or, since we are on the subject, propose to write for an audience YA, the most you can do is set it you as a goal. But, basically it will only amount to putting the ingredients in the blender, and the quality of these ingredients will depend on how much information you absorb regarding the type of reader YA in terms of their preferences and also the norms of the genre.
But, what will comes out of that blender it will be something completely different and unexpected. Because in a blender, physically, let's say, you know that such a quantity of strawberries, milk and sugar give you an a priori idea of what the whole will taste like. Then you are using a recipe, a formula.

But go explain to the brain what a formula is. What happens is that he works in a similar way to blenders in the sense that he blends, experiments, associates, and learns. But it is not a blender; he is actually a magician. Hence the importance of considering the objectives before, like: “I want to write this story in this certain way; I want certain plots to appear; I cannot (in the case of a contest) exceed 70K ... etc ”. Every time one sets those goals by reading them on paper (and neuroprogramming works by reading them backwards, so that they enter the subconscious since the hypothalamus, which decodes the images through the mirror or reflex system of sight, by not understanding what you see then it will go straight to the Secretariat, let's say), somehow the brain finds the way.

But this is actually similar to the work of digging for the remains of a fossil. The example is from Stephen King in the book On Writing. And, as he says, you have no idea what you might find. At most you suppose you could find a dinosaur. But those are your objectives, your intentions of what you are looking for, and the general framework is given by the plot scheme that you have designed for your story. But the rest is uncertain.
And that is the grace, indeed. For example, when I finished the first novel of my series, I had no idea that two of the main MCs and the entire set of secondary ones were going to appear only towards the middle of the second novel, and then it was like finding the complete skeleton.

In fact, it took me roughly five years after a lot of writing and reading, writing and reading (The Judge is more right than a nun, BTW) to just come to find my true narrative voice.

But there is no other way. For this reason, for now I recommend that you write the first thing that comes to mind, try to find a personality of your own to your characters, and one day you will suddenly realize that you found the MC that you were looking for so much. He will be waiting for you smiling at the bar counter with a drink in hand. And I could bet you that he is not going to be a teenager.
But that's the fun of writing. You never know what you are going to find.
 
Yeah, it isn't quite as simple as readers wanting to read about characters who are the same age as them. Many, many stories aimed at kids and tweens, for example, are set in high school (which I believe is referred to as college in the UK?), many aimed for teenagers are set in college, and so forth. Meanwhile, many stories feature protagonists which are the same age. So, I don't think there is a magic formula regarding the age of the protagonist.

Far more relevant, IMO, is the protagonist experiencing things which are relatable or have a strong anticipation in the audience. Teenagers and children are a great example. Most teenagers aren't very strongly eager or nervous about having children, but they are eager/nervous about romantic relationships. As such, much fiction marketed toward teenagers features at least some romantic subplot. Of course, this isn't always the case; teenagers are also thinking about their future, making an impact on the world, etc. and these elements can be featured as well, either in combination with or exclusion of the romantic plot. What you don't see, however, is much about having young (or especially older) children, because their mind isn't on that matter. However, there is a notable exception; content aimed at pregnant teens and young mothers, because, again, there is an eagerness/nervousness about this state of affairs.*

As such, I would argue that the age of a protagonist is less important than the conflict of the story/struggles of the protagonist connecting with something the reader can identify with.

As a new writer, though, I wouldn't worry too much about this yet. As @The Judge noted, focus first on practicing writing and developing your skill set, and the rest will come naturally. If you haven't already, be sure to check out the Writing Challenges and enter; this is some of the best writing and editing practice on the internet. I joined this forum specifically for these challenges.

And, all that said, welcome to the Chrons!

*EDIT: Quick point of clarification. When I speak of conflict/struggles, I'm referring to the emotional aspect. Surely, no one truly anticipates drawing a sword and slaughtering orcs, but those feelings of dread, being overwhelmed, desperation, and accomplishment when the final orc falls is decidedly relatable.
 
Wow, and thank you all so much for the extremely insightful, helpful and encouraging replies. Firstly, an apology, as I didn't get my definitions correct with regards to YA. I was in fact thinking YA meant early 20's as opposed to teenagers. That being said, it's still all very useful and doesn't invalidate my initial query thankfully.

What was most an Ah-ha moment was touched on by all of you but most concretely from Joshua's middles paragraphs that the age is less important than the particular struggles and conflicts. In my case, reflecting this morning on such things, it definitely is not a YA/ teenager story. Being early middle aged myself, I will draw on a combination of experiences in life, places I've been, things I've seen, maybe even dreams I've had, imagination obviously, concept art drawings I've done, things that are important to me, maybe bigger issues. It's been ballooning in scope somewhat since that first seed, probably means I'm biting off more than I can hope to chew. But I've never been one to shy away from big challenges in life so maybe I'm willing to take it more in my stride than I otherwise would do.

Interestingly, what The Judge said about transforming literally was and still is what my original idea was but thought it would be too ridiculous which led me to question which age I should be looking at for my character and then who would would be reading such a thing. But hey, it is fantasy as you say, and I'll make it easy on myself by writing what is inspiring me. So, I'll revert to my original idea which may be ridiculous but I like it. If I ever get momentum going then that is what subsequent drafts would help with.

And yep, don't worry I wasn't thinking of marketing or what shelves it would appear on just yet either, it was more concerning I might be committing some kind of unpoken writing faux pas, or a common sense fatality.

The Judge- I'm also glad you added your last paragraph as it sort of pre-answered a potential new topic. How you seem to be so good at reading my mind when I'm so new here too is quite beyond me, but I thank you :). Anyway, it was about reading or not reading related things. I've always been of the mind to not look at too much as I'm afraid that someone has already done what I was thinking. Of course it wouldn't be exactly the same but maybe I'd realise my idea wasn't so special after all.

DLCroix I had to read all that more than once to make more sense of it, but I like it and makes sense, and that book you mention is in my cart as we speak. Seen it mentioned a few times in only the few weeks I've been browsing. Coincidentally, a Stephen King book was the first 'serious' / adult feeling book I was given to read when I was younger (maybe YA age- can't remember), but it really hit a chord with me so I'll take it as another sign if one was needed.

And yes I should join the challenges. I was going to last month but was too shy, but in the name of progression it must be done.

Thank you so much again.

EDIT: after seeing Joshua Jones' edit, I wanted to add that that would have been a concern for me a few weeks ago until reading a lot of blog posts and various teaching classes that talk about conflict, anticipation, suspense, character growth and change which is what stories are about. The current SF book I'm reading had a good dose of stress/ nervousness experienced by the MC last night so it's good timing to reflect on that.

Wouldn't know where to begin so after thinking about it more, I realised that was what was going to make a pointless wander through some place, have a point to it. So I think that I get you, I hope I do anyway... Thanks!
 
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Wow, and thank you all so much for the extremely insightful, helpful and encouraging replies. Firstly, an apology, as I didn't get my definitions correct with regards to YA. I was in fact thinking YA meant early 20's as opposed to teenagers. That being said, it's still all very useful and doesn't invalidate my initial query thankfully.

What was most an Ah-ha moment was touched on by all of you but most concretely from Joshua's middles paragraphs that the age is less important than the particular struggles and conflicts. In my case, reflecting this morning on such things, it definitely is not a YA/ teenager story. Being early middle aged myself, I will draw on a combination of experiences in life, places I've been, things I've seen, maybe even dreams I've had, imagination obviously, concept art drawings I've done, things that are important to me, maybe bigger issues. It's been ballooning in scope somewhat since that first seed, probably means I'm biting off more than I can hope to chew. But I've never been one to shy away from big challenges in life so maybe I'm willing to take it more in my stride than I otherwise would do.

Interestingly, what The Judge said about transforming literally was and still is what my original idea was but thought it would be too ridiculous which led me to question which age I should be looking at for my character and then who would would be reading such a thing. But hey, it is fantasy as you say, and I'll make it easy on myself by writing what is inspiring me. So, I'll revert to my original idea which may be ridiculous but I like it. If I ever get momentum going then that is what subsequent drafts would help with.

And yep, don't worry I wasn't thinking of marketing or what shelves it would appear on just yet either, it was more concerning I might be committing some kind of unpoken writing faux pas, or a common sense fatality.

The Judge- I'm also glad you added your last paragraph as it sort of pre-answered a potential new topic. How you seem to be so good at reading my mind when I'm so new here too is quite beyond me, but I thank you :). Anyway, it was about reading or not reading related things. I've always been of the mind to not look at too much as I'm afraid that someone has already done what I was thinking. Of course it wouldn't be exactly the same but maybe I'd realise my idea wasn't so special after all.

DLCroix I had to read all that more than once to make more sense of it, but I like it and makes sense, and that book you mention is in my cart as we speak. Seen it mentioned a few times in only the few weeks I've been browsing. Coincidentally, a Stephen King book was the first 'serious' / adult feeling book I was given to read when I was younger (maybe YA age- can't remember), but it really hit a chord with me so I'll take it as another sign if one was needed.

And yes I should join the challenges. I was going to last month but was too shy, but in the name of progression it must be done.

Thank you so much again.

EDIT: after seeing Joshua Jones' edit, I wanted to add that that would have been a concern for me a few weeks ago until reading a lot of blog posts and various teaching classes that talk about conflict, anticipation, suspense, character growth and change which is what stories are about. The current SF book I'm reading had a good dose of stress/ nervousness experienced by the MC last night so it's good timing to reflect on that.

Wouldn't know where to begin so after thinking about it more, I realised that was what was going to make a pointless wander through some place, have a point to it. So I think that I get you, I hope I do anyway... Thanks!
Glad we could be of assistance, and you'll get used to that feeling with The Judge. She's absolutely brilliant as a writer and a critic.

I know well your feelings of intimidation. I stalked the challenges for a few months before joining and posting a story. When I finally got up the nerve to post, I shook the challenges with my awe inspiring ability... or, well, not so much... my first story was utter crap. A speed dating, partially (inadvertently) misogynistic dwarf with grammatical errors. Wow, that story was terrible... but everyone here was gracious and patient. And, I've learned and improved over the years.

So, when you start posting in the challenges, don't be surprised if your first entries aren't well received. There are "Improving" threads on there where you can voluntarily submit your story after the challenge is over to receive critique. This part is just as important as writing the story itself if you are an aspiring author, because people can identify weaknesses in your writing which can help you develop. And, again, the reviewers are nearly always gracious and affirming, although it may not always feel that way at first when your story is being torn into ribbons and thrown into the wind.

So, my encouragement is to give it a go, and enjoy the process of developing as a writer! It's exhilarating, exhausting, frustrating, and rewarding all at once.
 
I'm a novice writer, so take ANYTHING I suggest with a grain of salt. I've not read the above suggestions yet, so forgive any repetition in my post.

Though I suspect a protagonist focused toward a target audience is a clever--perhaps even advanced--idea, there are many more characters your target audience could cue in on. As an example, in my current project, the protagonist is an extremely jaded, bitter, vulgar, early forties woman who has lived a terrible life most folks can't imagine. She's the type in fact, most people prefer to blot out of their thoughts. So irrecoverably damaged, just like real life, most people simply want to disregard her type and pretend such people don't exist.

Considering the discussion, she's everything you'd NOT want as a protagonist.

The deuteragonist, however, is a young, early twenties, vibrant, hopeful, full of life gal, who we only encounter in the first half of the novel and in the last chapter. She introduces the protagonist to many new things, ultimately influencing the protag considerably. In the end, it turns out that SHE is the novel's focus and it's namesake, the Abolitionist.

There are many other characters, both good and bad, who ALL influence and guide the protagonist one way or the other. So, in this novel's case, the protagonist is somewhat the theme item that all others work with. It's in those other characters where I suspect people will find their relatable personas. More so, where the protagonist is laid bare leaving little question regarding her, the other characters are not as defined, yet wield so much influence and insight that hopefully readers will want to read more of them (in subsequent novels, naturally ;)).

So, there's more than just one character in your story I suspect. How much weight you give them, might very well generate a character this reader or that--some looking for heroes, others villains--can relate to. Sure, it's great if your primary character meets that goal. But, considering just a tiny fragment of any group of potential overall readers can relate to that person, if that is your goal, you've already limited how many readers will relate to the characters.

Point being, a diverse group of characters increases your chances of X-reader noting someone they find similarities to, or aspire to be...increasing the number of people who relate to what you've written.

E.g.: The MANY characters of Dune...

K2
 
Steven, ignore everything Joshua says about me. He's vainly trying to keep in my good books after the most egregious theft seen on the Chrons -- he had the audacity to steal victory from me in a Challenge that should have been mine. Mine, I tell you!! ;)

Anyhow, just to add to his comment about the Challenges, if you want to practice before formally entering, you're welcome to have a go at an old Challenge and put your story up in the relevant Improving thread -- there's one each for the 75s and 300s -- and get quick feedback there. Just make it clear you're a newbie practising and confirm what the genre and theme were or the quarter and image as appropriate.
 
Steven, ignore everything Joshua says about me. He's vainly trying to keep in my good books after the most egregious theft seen on the Chrons -- he had the audacity to steal victory from me in a Challenge that should have been mine. Mine, I tell you!! ;)

Anyhow, just to add to his comment about the Challenges, if you want to practice before formally entering, you're welcome to have a go at an old Challenge and put your story up in the relevant Improving thread -- there's one each for the 75s and 300s -- and get quick feedback there. Just make it clear you're a newbie practising and confirm what the genre and theme were or the quarter and image as appropriate.
As I recall, I did vote for your story... And I would agree; if I hadn't gotten a beta read from a certain party, you would have won that challenge hands down, and I still maintain that was one of your best stories I've seen in the challenges. Who I feel sorry for, though, are the other participants, seeing as you, Teresa, and I absorbed 29 votes...

If anyone else is curious what we're talking about: July 2017 75-word Writing Challenge -- VICTORY TO JOSHUA JONES!
 
FWIW I am very much tired of young heroes--both on screen and in print. Give me grownups, with grownup problems.

That said, When I was a young reader in the 1960s, I read tons of books that were populated entirely by grownups. I never felt the need to be reading about my own age group, nor did the author have to write down to my level. I just consumed books. It was all SF, with just a sprinkling of fantasy.

I agree with others here: most of the YA I've read is middling to poor. Then again, Sturgeon's Law.
 
FWIW I am very much tired of young heroes--both on screen and in print. Give me grownups, with grownup problems.

That said, When I was a young reader in the 1960s, I read tons of books that were populated entirely by grownups. I never felt the need to be reading about my own age group, nor did the author have to write down to my level. I just consumed books. It was all SF, with just a sprinkling of fantasy.

I agree with others here: most of the YA I've read is middling to poor. Then again, Sturgeon's Law.
I hear you. I knew I was getting older when, before The Force Awakens crushed my hopes of nerd joy, my first thought of Hux was, "Who is this wet behind the ears kid and why is he playing at being a general?"
 
By and large, writers should be trying to sell the world on their story, not fitting their story to the world. I know understanding is necessary for the sell, and some are more urgent to sell widely than others, but it still stands firm.

And in any case - if Portal Fantasy is more of a YA thing, then surely there's a market for Portal Fantasy among fans who loved the idea during YA but have slightly outgrown that genre?

The deuteragonist

Well. Learned a word today.

If it's an ensemble story with no clear bad guys, just humans vs humans, does it make them all agonists? :p
 
If it's an ensemble story with no clear bad guys, just humans vs humans, does it make them all agonists? :p

Without agonizing over my response, I'd say even with bad guys, they're all engaged in a struggle...so yes!

K2
 
As such, I would argue that the age of a protagonist is less important than the conflict of the story/struggles of the protagonist connecting with something the reader can identify with.

Hi! I want to hang on to this for what I am going to expose next:
Personally, I think that in a story the most important thing is the story itself; the characters in this are just the resources that one as a writer uses to tell that story. Therefore, I think it is a mistake to plan a story based on the characters, and above all to circumscribe it to a certain reading public, that of YA, would already be a second mistake.
Because where does the impulse to write a story come from? Sometimes our imaginations make us visualize scenes from other worlds like a movie, right? We see characters doing things, obviously we imagine their conversations, or in our minds we see an action scene. But what we are seeing is a situation, something where things are happening; then our mind does NOT tell us what a certain character is like, it shows him acting, right?

This basically, and broadly speaking, is like playing with dolls, or like the puppet theater. You are already realizing that each time those dolls or those puppets were always the same, right? Because I don't know of a child who has changed toys every time. Well, I guess there must be some.
But what I'm mean to is that in each of those games, in each of those occasions, what actually changed was the situation. And only after a while do we begin to take a particular affection for one of those toys; it was usual for us to give it a name, right?
So, only there, I would say that we were in a first manifestation about what a character is. Because being children and all we transformed an object, a toy, into an entity full of meaning, we even assigned it its own personality.
But, before we got to that discovery, what were we doing all the time?
We were telling stories, right? Most of the time to ourselves when we played alone. In an unconscious way, of course, we imagined situations, adventures. Which is the other way of naming what in Literature is called Conflict. Plot.

Then, that evolution, already with what we have learned about all the aspects of a story (and it is very good that you are internalizing about them), as first thing it should lead us to a premise, a basic idea. In a short story, the premise is usually only one; on the other hand, in a novel, and even more so in a saga (The Lord of the Rings, for example), there is enough time and length to develop several premises or parallel plots. For the short story at heart equates to a one-round fight and must be won by knockout. The knockout is for the reader, obviously, because the short story should be shocking, like a photo, a hundred-meter race, the hit or single from the album. The novel, on the other hand, is like a movie; equates to a heavyweights bout in ten round. The novel is the background fight, the marathon, the complete album.

Now, let's get back to this matter of the premise. The premise is when someone asks you what your novel is about. Therefore, it is an idea that should be summarized in a few lines. In fact, almost all the premises are already written; what changes is the approach, the way in which these premises are addressed.
For example, when they ask me: "What is your saga about?", I answer: "Can evil defend good? Is something like this possible?"

Returning to the example of The Lord of the Rings, its central idea is the eternal fight of good against evil. Also in the case of Star Wars, which, obviously, Lucas changed into a Space Opera environment because, one, he loved that saga and, two, also a little because of the technical limitations of the 70's, which made it impossible at that time to have of all the immense rendering power that Peter Jackson was able to make widely available but many, many years later. In fact, Spielberg only made the miracle possible only from Jurassic World, and from there appeared Toy Story, Monsters Inc. and everything else.
But I am getting out of thread. Going back to The Lord of the Rings, what Tolkien did was extrapolate the conflict from the world wars to a fantasy setting. But looking at the villains in that story it's easy to see who he was really referring to. In fact, in Star Wars the allusions are much more obvious, the example is crystal clear.

However, since it seems to me to warn that the story you want to do points to a novel, I want to insist that you must be clear about the difference between the premise or base idea and the argument; the first is the concept behind the story; the argument, instead, is the approach, the situation through which that idea develops.
Because it will have already happened to you, I imagine, that sometimes you ask someone what the story he is writing is about, and then he starts talking with great enthusiasm that he has a character A, and he describes the character at length, and that certain things happens to him, and then he describes all that to you, also at length, such that suddenly you just say to him: “Hey, I just want to know what your story is about; not that you tell it me”.
In this regard, a more excusable case is when that same person tells you the plot of their story. In the case of The Lord of the Rings, it is obviously Frodo's journey (and there is another premise: that, no matter how small you are, you may be destined for great things), which in the background reproduces the journey of the hero, something Luke Skywalker also does in SW, Ismael in Moby Dick, and obviously Katniss in The Hunger Games. But the hero's journey is one of the classic structures for storytelling, in fact, and as such it has its characteristics, the initial world of the hero, the call to adventure, the appearance of a mentor, the maturity that the same hero experiences along his path, fellow travelers, etc.
I think that Harry Potter in a way is also an argument that obeys that approach.

However, at this point I want to make an important clarification:
This premise should not be sought (recommended), since it arises alone, and in fact knowing it beforehand, going back to the example of unearthing a fossil, would be equivalent to making a complete scan or X-ray of that fossil; that is, to know what that fossil is like before you even start digging.

This is bad. Because it may be very useful to paleontologists, but not to writers. Personally I think that the work of writing should always be more intuitive than rational. Also, what's wrong to use this hero's journey approach in all the stories you write? And furthermore, I suppose that the two main structures have also been taught to you in school about telling a story: mimesis and diegesis. Let us remember that the first is linear and follows the traditional order of presentation, development and outcome, while the diegesis alters the order: sometimes it even begins at the end or in the middle, so to explain the beginning, use is made of what we call flashback, retrospective or racconto.
There is also what some call the Pyramid of Freytag, which roughly identifies six types of structures:

Chronological: similar to mimesis.
In media res: the story begins in the middle.
Starting from the knot or climax: it is the most used in police and mystery stories, it usually starts with the murder of the victim.
The diegesis or alteration of the chronological order.
Reverse or from the end: for example in Le Pacte des Loups, where the narrator recalls the whole story as a great flashback.
No ending or open ending: the conclusion is up to the reader.

Now, all these approaches or structures should only be known in a general way, identify them when reading a story; not when you're writing it. Because at most they will be able to serve you in a later process of reviewing and writing the second draft. In fact, over the years you will see which methods serve you more than others according to the nature of each story.

But where you can mark a turning point is in the plot, in the way you tell a story.

This, in fact, should be the product of very deep meditation. Such that when you see a movie or read a book ask yourself how you would do it, what things you did not like, what would you change. Because if one happen to be a writer, I think one should at least see things with a critical eye, one should have a position on it. And beware that I am not talking about formulas, but rather that this creative concern should be present in every writer. Only then could we be talking about a position or an approach that is original to some extent.

But, as I told you in the previous post, it's one thing for you to have a clear idea about you want to write, and at most it will only serve you to propose it as an intention, an objective. Because something very different is what you write from all that. Pretending to control everything, in fact, is the easiest way to spoil everything from the beginning, because there is no true freedom to create, and here we first need to create stories; in due course we will learn how to tell those stories. :giggle:
 
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Actually I myself have no idea if it is a YA thing or not, and both portal fantasy and YA are terms new to me since I joined Chrons. Hopefully it's a good thing but I don't even like the idea of writing YA, or to any particular audience for the sake of it. It took some digging to work out what I had in mind was a portal fantasy. Sounded cheesy to me but if that's what it is then that was that.

As some background to how I find myself here, well I just had an idea which started from wanting to make more out of some concept sketches, give them more meaning, but not to write a best seller or 'be published' or anything like that (actually wanted to make a short animated series out of it with some software I'm learning, but doing 3D as my job I know how much work it is as well). Instead, and almost like gravity, was slowly being pulled elswhere and have ended up falling down an alternative rabbit hole and am still going deeper, starting to learn what is really needed to make a story a story, and seem to be entering into an expanding cave the likes of which I never imagined would be down here. This must be the wonderful world of writing fiction and is as expansive as the world I'm in during the daytime. I'm now bouncing from one cache of goodies to the next realising I may be down here for a long while, and being shown without a doubt this world has just as many technicalities, skills to learn and voice to find as its visual cousin.

Intrigue has been growing and as I'm learning that story telling is an enormous thing, so I'm learning more and have realised the worlds also needed characters, one with personality and all that and not just a figure walking around landscapes which was my initial plan. Then realised I was still missing something else, and that was an answer to the question- why is he walking? So kept on digging and discovered tunnels which led to deeper caves labelled plot, conflict, change, growth and so on. The premise thing was new to me last week too, so your reminder is as timely as ever.

Now I find myself more keen to express a story through writing more than the artwork itself, as I've had a few weekends feeling so energised and in the zone, not being able to fall asleep sometimes through all the ideas which I jot down first thing the next morning. Just a feeling of 'I should be doing this as it makes me feel so alive'. My job and the idea of making animated stories is still interesting to me, but have been coming to the conclusion that as I'm not a twenty-strong team production studio, and won't be able to execute the kind of thing I had in mind, and at the same time, discovering far more enjoyment in the thinking up of a story than I expected, that maybe I should just stay down here and see what happens. As mentioned peviously, I have to test these underground waters that it's what I really enjoy and not just the idea of it.

Eek, have gone off on a tangent again. All points taken with gratitude, liking the reflection on when we played as children and I read some stuff about premise and plot and found it very interesting. I don't ever recall mimesis and diegesis- I am totally new to this world but I was one of the few kids in my class 30 yrs ago ish that actually liked the essay homework and recovering some stories from when I was about 5 to 10yrs old, well my wife seems to think they are creative (but may be biased...) . I do need to learn a raft of new skills though, so I'll pop over to the challenges section and make a fool of myself.

EDIT: There will be other characters too.. but not YA, now I know what that means.
 
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Well, in your case it should be much easier, because since you come from a graphic environment I take for granted that you have a visual imagination as well as the concept of script should not be unknown to you.
In fact, I started drawing comics since I was little, and as a result of that study, when I became interested in literature, I already had incorporated some rudimentary concepts about what an argument was. Well, as you may already know, both in a comic and in a movie you start with the script; in fact, due to its visual nature, I would say that there, unlike in literature, it becomes more important to have the character first, especially in the case of superhero comics, and then look for them an appropriate story. And yet the comics I drew were more realistic European than superheroes type; that is to say, curiously I was interested, always talking about comics, the complete environment, perspectives, human figure, setting, etc, more than a central character.
Therefore, a priori I would say that those writers with a more visual initial training, let's say, tend to give more importance to these aspects and in some way we reflect it in our writing. But it is an advantage that you can use in your favor.
Obviously, when later I began to internalize more of the theoretical aspects of literature, I could understand how childish certain scripts were. But you can always rescue something, you can see a germ; iven quoting Harold Bloom and everything he says about the Anatomy of Influence, it can be seen in which comics are the first indications of a critical stance and also a first way of writing.
They don't call it the ninth art for nothing, right?

that as I'm not a twenty-strong team production studio, and won't be able to execute the kind of thing I had in mind

Tell me that thing to me, that at the time I wanted to draw something as ambitious as Akira, he, he. :sleep:
 
Genre is what marketers create as they try to make sense out of what readers are reading. It's not wholly invented, but it's an abstraction that is like an off-the-rack suit. It mostly fits, but is too tight here and sags a bit there.
 

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