Magician again.

[althea]

I am rereading Magician. It is a very long time since I read it for the first time, when I really enjoyed it.
I am enjoying it again, but my jaded palette is not enjoying it as much this time.
Perhaps, extensive reading of sci/fi/fan has made me more discerning than I used to be.
It feels as though it was written for young adults, as I read it now.
Feist fans, please don't think I am criticising his writing. I am just surprised how much my tastes have changed.
I have read many of his other books, including the followings on from Magician. I will read it to the end, but I will not bother with the others in this series.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I'm not a Feist fan, but I did read the Riftwar saga trilogy as a young teen, and had vague postive memories of it.

However I re-read all three books recently, just last year, and....

...yes, I am now just rather goggle-eyed at its flaws. I can see why 13-year old me probably liked it - it's full of exotic worldbuilding (in a DnD style), fast paced etc. But now it seems a tad flimsy and paper-thin, reguritated plots (between books!) and other failings.

The one thing that really stuck out for me on this re-read however, was his treatement of women. 'Good' women all seemed to turn into homemakers and wives, therefore remaining at home for these stories, wheras all other 'bad' women, were single and either whores or very quickly dead.

 

[althea]

Venusian Broon, you have articulated here, much better than I have, the problems with rereading books one enjoyed years ago.
I did get a bit fed up with certain times in the books when Feist seem to run out of ideas. His attitude to women is so prevalent in much sci/fi I have read. More modern novels do seem to be addressing this outdated view of women.

 

[biodroid]

I read Magician and found it pretty slow, loved Silverthorn, but gave up on Sethanon because of REF copping out to have cat people in his book.

 

[Ian Fortytwo]

I've read the Magician several years ago, however I read it recently and found it really dull. As you grow older your taste changes, it must be the only reason.

 

[The Big Peat]

It's fair to say that the main appeal of Magician - the sense of a big sprawling world and adventure - is something that is offered by a lot of books, and that does often appeal less to readers as they grow and read more. I don't think it's a surprise that a lot of people's tastes changes away from it - or at least, shouldn't be.

That said - to riff on something the OP said - I think saying this was written for young adults is a bit of an anachronism, as I'm not really aware of there being much of a YA market for fantasy back when this was written. And while I can see why people would think it fits under YA now, it doesn't really, because it's about young people doing adult things, rather than young adults being young adults. You could make Pug et al 28 without really changing the story. And books that have the directness and simplicity and big hooks that typify YA, but without delving too deep into the emotions/tangled personal emotions/sense of unfairness that permeates a lot of YA, appeal greatly to me as reads for when I just want to rip through a story without too many complications.

 

[Venusian Broon]

It's fair to say that the main appeal of Magician - the sense of a big sprawling world and adventure - is something that is offered by a lot of books, and that does often appeal less to readers as they grow and read more. I don't think it's a surprise that a lot of people's tastes changes away from it - or at least, shouldn't be.

I think it also doesn't help that it's origins come from a DnD background, so part of a saturated market of hoary old tropes now. But I do think the writing itself doesn't hold up on many different levels.

However these were Feist's first novels, I believe, to be fair. So I assume (hope) that he got better later on.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with liking a 'popcorn' piece of writing, for a bit of guilty pleasure on a wet Sunday afternoon. There is plenty of stuff I like, that I am sure others wouldn't touch with the proverbial excrement covered stick.

That said - to riff on something the OP said - I think saying this was written for young adults is a bit of an anachronism, as I'm not really aware of there being much of a YA market for fantasy back when this was written. And while I can see why people would think it fits under YA now, it doesn't really, because it's about young people doing adult things, rather than young adults being young adults. You could make Pug et al 28 without really changing the story. And books that have the directness and simplicity and big hooks that typify YA, but without delving too deep into the emotions/tangled personal emotions/sense of unfairness that permeates a lot of YA, appeal greatly to me as reads for when I just want to rip through a story without too many complications.

I certainly don't remember a YA subgenre for SF&F as signposted as what we have now. But I'd argue that there was a sizable chunk of all SF&F that was aimed at younger readers at the time. But I agree that I'm not sure Feist wrote it thinking of the younger demographic, as it feels more like his Dungeon and Dragons experiences being written down.

Slighty disagree about Pug. We get a lot of girl and boy stuff with him for a lot of the first book And in a way that his friend Thomas completely bypasses, by being converted into a mystical dragon lord quite early on. It's not the sort of thing you'd expect a 28 year old to start experiencing for the first time! Then when Pug grows up, we get introduced to a 15-16 year old Jimmy and we continue to get some trials and tribulations of a teen in the novels.

 

[Grimward]

Haven't done a re-read recently, also don't expect it to have aged well, and yet I too will re-read stuff of the questionably odiferous class VB's suggesting if I've liked it before. I expect the Empire series ages better, but then I'm a bit biased with regard to Janny Wurts' talents, and she collaborated with him on those. Have always liked the way Feist developed the underground and merchant themes in his later stuff, though, so a re-read is a sure thing at some point...

 

[The Big Peat]

I think it also doesn't help that it's origins come from a DnD background, so part of a saturated market of hoary old tropes now. But I do think the writing itself doesn't hold up on many different levels.

However these were Feist's first novels, I believe, to be fair. So I assume (hope) that he got better later on.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with liking a 'popcorn' piece of writing, for a bit of guilty pleasure on a wet Sunday afternoon. There is plenty of stuff I like, that I am sure others wouldn't touch with the proverbial excrement covered stick.

Nothing guilty about the pleasure

The writing isn't good it's true - at least in terms of the prose - but there's plenty of indifferent writers I enjoy because they keep the plot bumbling along with interesting set pieces.

I certainly don't remember a YA subgenre for SF&F as signposted as what we have now. But I'd argue that there was a sizable chunk of all SF&F that was aimed at younger readers at the time. But I agree that I'm not sure Feist wrote it thinking of the younger demographic, as it feels more like his Dungeon and Dragons experiences being written down.

Slighty disagree about Pug. We get a lot of girl and boy stuff with him for a lot of the first book And in a way that his friend Thomas completely bypasses, by being converted into a mystical dragon lord quite early on. It's not the sort of thing you'd expect a 28 year old to start experiencing for the first time! Then when Pug grows up, we get introduced to a 15-16 year old Jimmy and we continue to get some trials and tribulations of a teen in the novels.

28 year olds don't experience it for the first time (well... most don't), but they still experience it. Pug's inner romantic turmoil doesn't feel much different that of Harry Dresden, or Sam Vimes, or basically any of the other mature protagonists in the fantasy canon who aren't love 'em or leave 'em (which is in itself an interesting insight into the genre to be chased or another day) or totally celibate. Jimmy probably has less romantic inner turmoil than all three.

And they've all got a lot less than the characters of a Cassandra Clare book, or the Leigh Bardugo I tried reading, or etc.etc. And it's not just about the romantic stuff either - are there chapters of "My friends hate me now"? Are there chapters of "Why do my parents love the talented kid more"? YA's got 'em. Magician doesn't.

When it comes to romantic/family/friendship subplots, it's the difference between eating a slider and eating a burger the size of your head.

 

[Overread]

I think as we read more into a genre even if we were not to change as we grew older, we would find that some tropes and themes that once felt fresh and amazing, will feel tired and boring and dulled by the end. Sometimes its because those earlier books present ideas that are then taken so much further in latter ones. The result being that when we go back they appear weaker because they don't have that same development that we've grown more used to with more recently published works.

Personally I game to Magician later than my teens and I enjoyed the first series of three books. After that my impression is that Fiest ran out of steam - his books become very much more DnD styled and they feel a bit more hollow/weaker than the original. Part of it is that I think he started with an epic but then wound up writing adventures; another is that I think the "spark" was there in the first book; with many of the latter being less sparked and more formula/for the publisher.



I don't think there's any shame in saying "This book was once for me and now isn't" just like there's no shame in accepting that there are some series you can't get on with at all. Eg I really love the concept of Redwall and a younger me would likely have really enjoyed those books. Older me can't really engage with them as they feel written for a younger audience - the style of writing and story presentation just doesn't "click" with me even though the actual themes and concepts do.

 

[nixie]

No secret I have a soft spot for Magician and all the following books, I find it easier to forgive his flaws and glaring errors than I do with others.
Magician is my pick up when feeling down.

 

[althea]

I am enjoying all the views expressed here. I take most of the points mentioned. Anno Domini does play it's part in how we feel rereading stuff from long ago.
My pick me up, after reading and rereading many times, are all the books by Robin Hobb. The series featuring Fitz are my favourites.
They never seem to get old to me.

 

[The Big Peat]

The thing I like most about Magician is the sheer gonzo ambition of it. A lot of what it's done was done before and done afterwards, but very few other books slap themselves on the table and say "Hi, I'd like to tell you a tale spanning nine years, two worlds, and as much stuff as I can cram into them".

Of course, the happy thing about that is just having read the book is enough to make me happy, and I don't really need to reread it that often

 

[nixie]

I love how we all have different tastes. When I read Hobb's Farseer etc I really enjoyed them, attempting a reread a few years later I couldn't finish them. Fitz annoyed me second time round.

 

[Overread]

I love how we all have different tastes. When I read Hobb's Farseer etc I really enjoyed them, attempting a reread a few years later I couldn't finish them. Fitz annoyed me second time round.

Wait but I thought half the fun was getting annoyed at Fitz making bad choices!

 

[nixie]

My soft spot for Magician is currently arguing with my common sense, I know I can't afford it but... RAYMOND FEIST: Magician, A Signed Edition Leather Book

 

[Fiberglass Cyborg]

As a teenager, I thought "Magician" was phenomenal. But I was much less impressed with the following two books, and everything else by him I tried was a cold "meh, didn't finish" with the exception of the "Daughter of the Empire" books he co-wrote with Janny Wurts. That said, I re-read "Silverthorn" and "A Darkness at Sethanon" a couple of years ago and enjoyed them so much more than expected. So maybe I should give later Feist another shot.