Computer Games and Novels

[Toby Frost]

This is an interesting article, about the relationship between video games and literature:

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For a long time I've thought that the rules for films, games and novels are quite different, and that one way to fail is to write in one style when you really want to write in another. However, some games have got more sophisticated in terms of story (and many haven't) and a comparison with novels is fairer than it used to be. When I started trying to write fantasy, a long time ago, I couldn't find many books that were much like what I wanted to write, and the computer game Thief 2 was quite a large influence. I've no idea whether there is a general correlation between books and games, but I thought the author's comments were interesting, particularly with regard to The Last of Us and The Road.

 

[paeng]

Also, space operas like the Mass Effect series.

 

[HoopyFrood]

I used to be such an avid reader but that's really dropped off in recent years (perhaps the internet has just killed my attention span) but my interest in gaming has really increased in the last five or so years and I'd probably put it as my top hobby these days. I play a lot of RPGs and I think they fill a hole that reading couldn't, in that you insert yourself and play an active role in the story. There are obviously still limitations to this of course, and I'd love for games to continue to develop intricate story trees, more decisions, more consequences. But it is definitely wrong to write off games as having no substance or compelling narratives -- the recent Shadowbringers expansion for FF14 has got rave reviews for its storyline, and absolutely blew me away; I cheered, I laughed, I was anxious, and I shed more than a few tears, no doubt because games make you invested in that unique way.

 

[DLCroix]

Yes, that evolution is interesting. For example, the other day my brother, who since he's in the military obviously is a fan of games like that, showed me a movie called The Last Tiger or something like that, and although I saw it a bit boring at first (those games don't appeal to me), I really said astonished: "Wow, it has a plot ..."

Now, the problem that I no longer like so much is the massive obsession with writing not literature, but as if it were a movie script. Under that premise of Show vs Tell and also that of not preaching, the idea has been reached that everything has to be shown as dialogue or described in its simplest form; in fact there are almost no descriptions and forget about seeing any inner thoughts. For me this results in stories that, yes, they can be interesting but they have very little of literary.

 

[.matthew.]

I tend to stay away from tie-in material but I do appreciate good storytelling in games, either as a campaign or generated through gameplay.

Notables for the first would be games like Dishonored, Deus Ex, Bioshock.
For the second, you can't beat a good Rimworld or Crusader Kings.

I find most RPGs pretty bad on the story front, probably due to the scope. They all try to build the huge open worlds but they tend to feel empty and repetitive. Games like Divinity Original Sin had an interesting way of handling player choice, and the Witcher 3 had some truly exceptional side quests. Still, both suffered from a poor main plot.

 

[tinkerdan]

espascism ?

 

[Toby Frost]

Bioshock's an interesting one, as if does something that couldn't be done in any other medium, with the idea of the player following directions to progress in the game. Spec Ops: The Line attempts something similar, and is basically a retelling of Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now, but I think ultimately falls under the weight of its own pretentiousness.

Back in the late 90s, much was made of the concept of Virtual Reality, namely allowing you to explore a full 3D world (in practice, it was like an oculus rift helmet with visuals like the Dire Straits "Money for nothing" video). But the first game I recall that let you really interact with the world in 3D - as opposed to just shooting things in it - was Thief. I remember being fascinated by the idea of picking up objects and throwing them to distract guards. Dishonoured works on the same principles, with better graphics and mechanics (and more whisky and cigars).

I always feel cheated in a game where you, as the player, can't engineer the best possible outcome where either you become king of everything, or everyone has a happy ending. Lifelike, definitely, and a device that would work well in a novel, but not what I want from a game.

Of course, games have to be played at the player's speed, which means that the quest to stop the world has to pause to allow the player to go and bash three rats for the fighters' guild if needs be. So that pacing can't really be maintained without forcing the player down a narrow corridor.

 

[.matthew.]

Of course, games have to be played at the player's speed, which means that the quest to stop the world has to pause to allow the player to go and bash three rats for the fighters' guild if needs be. So that pacing can't really be maintained without forcing the player down a narrow corridor.

Yea, that's the main problem in a nutshell. You can either have a tightly scripted storyline that hits you in the feels, or a sprawling adventure where you spend most of the time doing side quests and upgrading gear.

That said it comes down to what you want from a game. Some of my favourite games were 10 hours of my life and done, with the memories still vivid years later. Other games I'll have played for 80 to 120+ hours and can barely remember a thing about them, yet they were also compelling at the time.

Maybe it comes down to the perspective, with first-person games offering more of an immediate sense of identity, while the isometric RPGs are more hands-off and less personal. This could explain why Skyrim was so successful too, despite it mostly falling into the same sins as other open-world RPGs.

 

[BAYLOR]

Yea, that's the main problem in a nutshell. You can either have a tightly scripted storyline that hits you in the feels, or a sprawling adventure where you spend most of the time doing side quests and upgrading gear.

That said it comes down to what you want from a game. Some of my favourite games were 10 hours of my life and done, with the memories still vivid years later. Other games I'll have played for 80 to 120+ hours and can barely remember a thing about them, yet they were also compelling at the time.

Maybe it comes down to the perspective, with first-person games offering more of an immediate sense of identity, while the isometric RPGs are more hands-off and less personal. This could explain why Skyrim was so successful too, despite it mostly falling into the same sins as other open-world RPGs.

I was playing Skyrim alot and then game fatigue/burnout set in and I stopped . Ive left quest unfinished.

 

[The Big Peat]

If I ever make it, if people are ever asking about my influences, I'm going to use the word 'Morrowind' a lot. To me, it's still one of the greatest fantasy worlds and stories I've ever seen.

 

[Toby Frost]

Absolutely. I found Oblivion really disappointing in terms of ideas. Apparently the designers of Morrowind were encouraged to make it as weird as possible, and it shows. It is excellent. I suppose a bland sub-LOTR fantasy world will sell better, as it's more familiar, but the sense of exploring somewhere really strange and different just isn't there.

 

[.matthew.]

I'm about to dive into Baldur's Gate 3 ... once it finally downloads

Hoping for a killer world, and psychic squid monsters bodes well for that.

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

Let me introduce you to a game that directly inspires stories - ladies and gentlemen, I give you...

Dwarf Fortress

Bay 12 Games: Dwarf Fortress

www.bay12games.com

where "Losing is fun"

Dwarf Fortress - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are a couple of websites dedicated to stories - here's one

Dwarf Fortress Stories

Dwarf Fortress stories. The best stories and legend about Dwarf Fortress. Awesome pictures and lots pounds of admamantine.

www.dfst.org

and at least one YouTube channel dedicated to it

Kruggsmash

Whats shakin?! Do you like Dwarf Fortress? I sure hope so! I'm lookin' to bring this fantastically unique game to people who find the gameplay difficult to h...

www.youtube.com

The owner of the above channel describes Dwarf Fortress as "not so much a game, rather a fantasy world simulator"

It won't win any prizes for its graphics, although there are tilesets available, but for sheer size, complexity and minute detail there aren't many to touch it.
Not that I've played it much, I just like generating worlds.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

For me there's definite tie ins, and I've used some of the logic of Arcanum in some of my books. But at the same time there's problems. One of the best games I ever played was Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. Brilliant fun but you can only play it once because the tightly scripted plot doesn't allow you much of an original ending. It's too book like.

Cheers, Greg.