Bronze Dodecahedron from Roman Period (Found)

[BAYLOR]

Isn't it obvious? We just need to find the others to make up the full set

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Could the Romans have been the first to invent D and D ?

 

[AllanR]

Could the Romans have been the first to invent D and D ?

I'd say the Greeks beat them to that Platonic solid - Wikipedia

 

[BAYLOR]

I'd say the Greeks beat them to that Platonic solid - Wikipedia

Wow !

 

[Dave]

Actually, I've changed my mind. It is neither a toy building system, nor a gaming dice. As for a sock knitting aid, is that the best your can come up with after a whole year?

No, I know exactly what they were used for:

 

[Dave]

However, if it is a device to knit glove fingers, then @J-WO was spot on here:

Whatever they were used for we can safely say it wasn't anything that directly concerned the writers of all the Roman literature that comes down to us. So upper class free men likely had no interest. Such a pricey object rules out slaves too. So you're looking at the military, rich free women, skilled workmen or an organised faith. Which, admittedly, is a very wide group.

 

[Montero]

I was noticing the part about northern area and in the mountains - i.e. where you need gloves.

Also 17th century re-enactment again - a metal needle was a pricey object and you'd keep it in its own wooden case and look after it very carefully. Having several needles of different sizes, again an investment. So the bronze dodecahedron would be more expensive than a needle, but potentially within reach of skilled/semi-skilled people. Or could be owned by a community - and handed round to whoever is making glove fingers this hour/half-day.

 

[Ursa major]

and handed round

I see what you did there.

 

[Montero]

If they are for knitting glove fingers, being of varying sizes works. Would also speculate that there could have been lots of wooden ones around that haven't survived.

 

[Yozh]

If they are for knitting glove fingers, being of varying sizes works. Would also speculate that there could have been lots of wooden ones around that haven't survived.

If it was really useful in this way, would expect similar object to have been in use throughout the glove-making world until Industrial Revolution.

 

[Pyan]

But saying that, if we lost running water, decent roads, central heating, proper government, brickmaking and the Pax Romana, etc, it's hardly surprising that a knitting gadget was also lost.

 

[Ursa major]

that a knitting gadget was also lost.

And saying that it is a knitting aid would have been (and apparently still is) like throwing purls before swine....

 

[Montero]

My mother, who could knit 8 needle cable stitch while watching the TV, tried to teach me to knit. It was knit one, purl one, drop one. Too young for it to be swear one. Mother nobly reined in her frustration but I could feel it radiating off her. Gave up on that pretty quickly.
However crochet, and French knitters - which the dodecahedron would fall in the category of if a knitting aid - are fine. A hook and thread is OK, two fiddly needles, not. I don't really do chop sticks either.

 

[Dave]

The father of the husband of a distant cousin of mine is credited with bringing Framework Knitting Machines to Scotland from Leicester (the story goes that the relation was actually intending to emigrate to North America, and had walked from Leicester to Liverpool, but for some reason took a boat to Scotland instead.) So, he is responsible for the entire Scottish Borders sock and stocking industry (as it once was.)

In this video from Leicester Industrial History Society at 6.16 minutes you can see rotating knitting machines to create stockings that work in a more mechanised way to a hand-held French Knitting device or to the roman dodecahedron.

 

[Elckerlyc]

It does remind me somewhat of a spool-knitter. Only one that does allow for variations in diameter, where spool-knitters today usually allow only for one size.
It has the looks of a costly tool, only fit for the elite. On the other hand, these objects have mostly been found near Roman military sites and not (afaik) near Roman villas. I wonder though whether such a tool would be tricky to make out of would, when iron is more malleable, knobs and all.
Also in favour of the finger-glove tool; these objects have only been found in NW-Europe and not in more warmer regions of the Roman Empire.

 

[Dave]

I thought we'd solved this question but this recent new report says that the object is "still baffling experts."

Roman object that baffled experts to go on show at Lincoln Museum

The 12-sided object, found in Norton Disney, is being shown as part of the Lincoln Festival of History.

www.bbc.co.uk

And then there is this:

Doctor Who (1963–1996) - Season 18: Meglos: Part 4

The Doctor must prevent Meglos from using the dodecahedron to destroy Tigella.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Doctor must convince the Tigellans of his innocence if he is to prevent Meglos from using the dodecahedron to destroy their world.

 

[Dave]

The "baffling" Roman Dodecahedron was on HIGNFY tonight. Why is a thing that makes gloves so "baffling"? I mean to say, it's all over YouTube if you happen to look for it. Don't any of these baffled "experts" have internet?

I've marked this thread (Found) as we do for book searches. If you see any "baffled experts" you can send them the link to the thread.

 

[Elentarri]

The "baffling" Roman Dodecahedron was on HIGNFY tonight. Why is a thing that makes gloves so "baffling"? I mean to say, it's all over YouTube if you happen to look for it. Don't any of these baffled "experts" have internet?

I've marked this thread (Found) as we do for book searches. If you see any "baffled experts" you can send them the link to the thread.

I suppose when the "experts" go to school they all learn that 'ancient things = religious artifacts' and any other use just doesn't occur to them. One of those "experts" should have taken the Roman thingy to grandma, who probably could have set him straight.

 

[Astro Pen]

I'm with the knitting grandma, 100%

Archaeologist: It's a ritual fertility figurine on a wooden rod.
Grandma: It's a hammer.

 

[Dave]

To be fair, the archaeologists probably aren't "baffled" at all. It will be much more likely that the journalists don't want to give up a good story. "Baffled" archaeologists sells more papers and get's more clicks that "discovered use by watching YouTube". I also think a hammer that is missing a shaft "might" be mistaken for a representation of a human form, but some lateral thinking always helps in solving any puzzle.

The main thing that baffles me is that there are videos of this all over the internet with people using them to make pretty some good gloves, and that it all makes sense that that it is for, given the evidence of the northern mountain locations and everything else that has been said already. So, a journalist sitting down to write this drivel article doesn't do any research; doesn't even do a simple internet search for "dodecahedron", instead he just copies and pastes what someone else wrote? And ditto for HIGNFY. I would expected more of their research since they frequently have funny videos and photos trawled from social media. And there was a thread on Twitter yesterday about them being for glove-making, but that was probably after the programme had been recorded. Also they were joking about Norton Disney (where it was found) seemingly unaware that Walt Disney visited the place as it being the origin of his family's name. It isn't like doing some research is that hard today when you can click a button and needn't even visit a library.

On the other hand, when I searched I did get The Doctor preventing Meglos from using a dodecahedron to destroy a world. So, you do have to be careful not to believe everything you read online.

 

[Ursa major]

'ancient things = religious artifacts'

I seem to recall (possibly from an episode of Time Team) that there were three things that might be said about an artefacts whose purpose was unknown.

The first was that its use was probably/possibly "religious", the second was that its use was probably/possibly "ceremonial"... and I can't recall what the third one was.