Bees and mobile phone masts.

[Foxbat]

My brother keeps bees and has lost hives a number of times over the years. Sometimes it’s been adverse weather and sometimes unexplained. Bee keepers often move their hives to take advantage of different plants. I know my brother has sometimes moved his (I helped him once and felt a bit nervous as we drove to a new destination with approximately 30000 bees in their hive in the back of the car).

I heard this potential problem mentioned on TV recently and so did some searching and came up with this from the ofcom site. I’m going to have to let him know about this just in case he’s putting them near phone masts.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0021/58035/andrew_goldsworthy.pdf

 

[Hugh]

I'm not qualified to make any informed comment, but it's an interesting read.

 

[CupofJoe]

Well... I've never liked mobile phones anyway

 

[Edoc'sil]

I always thought this technology would come back to bite us in the arse. Just like leaded paint/petrol and asbestos, in future years people will look back on us and laugh at the unnecessary risks we took. If people care enough to change that is.

That's not even including how mobile phones have ruined work/life balance.

 

[HareBrain]

If people care enough to change that is.

The software seems to have removed the formatting (italics, bold, underline, shadow, size 72, sparkles) you presumably placed on the word "if".

 

[Ursa major]

What has to be understood is that a balance must be struck between the "safety" of mere insects...



...and the paramount need to banish all irritating buzzing on all those vitals calls (all of them are vital, obviously) to and from mobile phones....

​

 

[Foxbat]

I remember one younger member of our messroom fretting because somebody he really needed to contact had not replied to his text. ‘Why don’t you phone him?’ came the suggestion. The look on his face showed that he’d never thought of actually using his phone as a phone.

I’d love to see a reason to banish these objects to the depths of Hell. Saving the bees would be good enough for me.

 

[Finch]

The dangers of Radio masts have been disused for years. I am slightly sceptical about the evidence. India has bypass landlines and often only phone avalble is the mobile. Indians have been studying the effects of the equipment on living things, but to date can find no concrete evidence of being dangerous. My brother also keeps bees, and he tells me the biggest problem at the moment is the warm early springs. The bees come out of hibernation, but there is insufficient food, so they starve.

 

[Foxbat]

The dangers of Radio masts have been disused for years. I am slightly sceptical about the evidence. India has bypass landlines and often only phone avalble is the mobile. Indians have been studying the effects of the equipment on living things, but to date can find no concrete evidence of being dangerous. My brother also keeps bees, and he tells me the biggest problem at the moment is the warm early springs. The bees come out of hibernation, but there is insufficient food, so they starve.

I would normally be sceptical too but this paper has been published on the ofcom site. I might be wrong but I would think the organisation responsible for regulating communications in the UK would not publish this unless they they felt the evidence was strong and compelling.

What is Ofcom?

Ofcom is the communications regulator in the UK. We regulate the TV, radio and video-on-demand sectors, fixed line telecoms, mobiles, postal services, plus the airwaves over which wireless devices operate.

www.ofcom.org.uk

On the bees point. Doesn’t your brother feed them? I know my brother uses a sugar fondant.

How to Make Fondant for Bees - Backyard Beekeeping

Fondant for bees is a little different than the fondant that you find at the bakery. Making fondant for bees is a lot like making candy.

backyardbeekeeping.iamcountryside.com

 

[Finch]

I would normally be sceptical too but this paper has been published on the ofcom site. I might be wrong but I would think the organisation responsible for regulating communications in the UK would not publish this unless they they felt the evidence was strong and compelling.

What is Ofcom?

Ofcom is the communications regulator in the UK. We regulate the TV, radio and video-on-demand sectors, fixed line telecoms, mobiles, postal services, plus the airwaves over which wireless devices operate.

www.ofcom.org.uk

On the bees point. Doesn’t your brother feed them? I know my brother uses a sugar fondant.

How to Make Fondant for Bees - Backyard Beekeeping

Fondant for bees is a little different than the fondant that you find at the bakery. Making fondant for bees is a lot like making candy.

backyardbeekeeping.iamcountryside.com

Ok It's all true, and the human race, as stated in the opening of the document, is in danger. What is Ofcom doing about it?

 

[Foxbat]

Ok It's all true, and the human race, as stated in the opening of the document, is in danger. What is Ofcom doing about it?

There are recommendations at the end of the document on what can de done. Whether or not these will be implemented remains to be seen.

 

[hitmouse]

It is in an obscure corner of the offcom site and the status of that paper is unclear to me.

 

[Finch]

It is in an obscure corner of the offcom site and the status of that paper is unclear to me.

My objection to it is, it's not a science paper backed by research. It is someone's opinion of mobile masts. Written in a rambling style and pulling in breast cancer and some sickly trees in a London park. None of his supporting evidence actually supports his opinions. To say flys are harmed by strong radio signals doesn't prove his argument. It was not that long ago some people claimed mobile phones caused brain tumours. Another thing many people refuse to believe is, I don't have a mobile and I don't need one.

 

[hitmouse]

My objection to it is, it's not a science paper backed by research. It is someone's opinion of mobile masts. Written in a rambling style and pulling in breast cancer and some sickly trees in a London park. None of his supporting evidence actually supports his opinions. To say flys are harmed by strong radio signals doesn't prove his argument. It was not that long ago some people claimed mobile phones caused brain tumours. Another thing many people refuse to believe is, I don't have a mobile and I don't need one.

Agreed. This does not appear to be official Offcom guidance, and, crucially, it is not a scientific paper either. The brain tumour thing was based on some questionable statistics, as was the suggestion that excess teen suicides in Bridgend were linked to a nearby mast. Ben Goldacre dissected this in the Bad Science book and in his Guardian column ( although not specifically about bees.)

electrosensitivity – Bad Science

www.badscience.net

 

[Venusian Broon]

I would normally be sceptical too but this paper has been published on the ofcom site. I might be wrong but I would think the organisation responsible for regulating communications in the UK would not publish this unless they they felt the evidence was strong and compelling.

This document was sent in by Dr Goldsworthy (retired lecturer) as part of an open consultation in 2010 that allowed any person or party to comment on a proposal to increase the power of 3G networks in the UK.

It is not the opinion of Ofcom, it is merely an individuals opinion. Here is "the register"'s view of the whole process: Ofcom consultation brings out the tinfoil hatters

I'd also suggest, after a cursory google that Dr Goldsworthy does not like current wireless technology developements. Is he correct?

There may be health implications indeed, as one must keep an open mind on such matters, although I haven't seen proper studies on the long-term effects of living with increased power mobile phone sites. However a great deal has been claimed by certain groups that seem OTT and similiar to anti-vax and other unscientific movements - there has been no evidence for these claims as far as I can remember.

I'd have to dig deeper with this Dr G, but frankly he seems to be tying in everything to the advent of mobile phone/WiFi radiation: autism, obesity, ADHD, fatigue. And of course bee decline.

That screams a bit 'tinfoil hat' to me, I'm afraid.

The peak year for colony collapse disorder (CCD) in honey bees, at least according to this article: Are honey bees endangered? Here's the truth of the matter | AGDAILY was around 2010-ish - the journalist states that the American Council on Science and Health reported that it had abated by 2011. Since then., apparently, honey bee populations have (at least in the US) gone to historic highs and that CCD is no longer put forward as the main threat to bees. However I am no beekeeper, neither do I follow this too closely, so I will willingly be corrected by someone with better data on this issue.

However, I would suggest @Foxbat that you have pulled up a document out of context and, of course interested because of familial concerns, have been a bit blinded by the scientific language used. As others have pointed out this is not a peer reviewed scientific paper. We must be careful, as this is how bad ideas are allowed to propogate in the internet. (I have no problems discussing any of the ideas in Dr G's paper, but we must attribute the correct weight to his arguments - that he probably does not have strong or compelling evidence.)

 

[Robert Zwilling]

I think the impact of the phones on everyday mental health is highly under rated and should not be left out of the damage done list.

 

[Foxbat]

This document was sent in by Dr Goldsworthy (retired lecturer) as part of an open consultation in 2010 that allowed any person or party to comment on a proposal to increase the power of 3G networks in the UK.

It is not the opinion of Ofcom, it is merely an individuals opinion. Here is "the register"'s view of the whole process: Ofcom consultation brings out the tinfoil hatters

I'd also suggest, after a cursory google that Dr Goldsworthy does not like current wireless technology developements. Is he correct?

There may be health implications indeed, as one must keep an open mind on such matters, although I haven't seen proper studies on the long-term effects of living with increased power mobile phone sites. However a great deal has been claimed by certain groups that seem OTT and similiar to anti-vax and other unscientific movements - there has been no evidence for these claims as far as I can remember.

I'd have to dig deeper with this Dr G, but frankly he seems to be tying in everything to the advent of mobile phone/WiFi radiation: autism, obesity, ADHD, fatigue. And of course bee decline.

That screams a bit 'tinfoil hat' to me, I'm afraid.

The peak year for colony collapse disorder (CCD) in honey bees, at least according to this article: Are honey bees endangered? Here's the truth of the matter | AGDAILY was around 2010-ish - the journalist states that the American Council on Science and Health reported that it had abated by 2011. Since then., apparently, honey bee populations have (at least in the US) gone to historic highs and that CCD is no longer put forward as the main threat to bees. However I am no beekeeper, neither do I follow this too closely, so I will willingly be corrected by someone with better data on this issue.

However, I would suggest @Foxbat that you have pulled up a document out of context and, of course interested because of familial concerns, have been a bit blinded by the scientific language used. As others have pointed out this is not a peer reviewed scientific paper. We must be careful, as this is how bad ideas are allowed to propogate in the internet. (I have no problems discussing any of the ideas in Dr G's paper, but we must attribute the correct weight to his arguments - that he probably does not have strong or compelling evidence.)

Fair enough. I didn’t set out to propagate a myth or tin foil propaganda and, just to put it in context from my point of view. I did a search because I’d read some stuff on hive collapse and wanted to delve a bit deeper (my brother lost another five hives last year). I simply thought it might be of interest here.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Fair enough. I didn’t set out to propagate a myth or tin foil propaganda and, just to put it in context from my point of view. I did a search because I’d read some stuff on hive collapse and wanted to delve a bit deeper (my brother lost another five hives last year). I simply thought it might be of interest here.

I must apologise Foxbat. I should have made it clear, that from your previous comments, I would never believe that you would knowingly "go rogue" on some potentially tinfoil hat stuff. (I am sure I have unwittingly done the same on occasion. Sometimes I read something so in tune with my thinking , I easily succumb to its charms!)

I would say that the biggest danger was because you are such a respected and knowledgable person on the forum, your positive comments themselves on such topics add weight to the original story. ("with great power comes great responsibility" spidey )

Totally understand your motives for searching for such information, however a little more delving into the guy making the claim made my alarm bells ring.

 

[Foxbat]

I am humbled by your kind words
I should probably have done a bit more delving myself and really need to educate myself more on this age of misinformation.

 

[HareBrain]

Hey, this should have spiralled into a vituperative, polarised argument. You're not doing the internet right.