Swearing/Profanity in Fantasy for or against?

[Magic_Muscle]

I have been self evaluating my own work and have never was shy to write with profanity where it was suitable for the character and setting. However censorship is a concern to a small degree and it seems many writing communities have various reasons for and against its use.

Hows the rest here feel about it?

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

These threads popped up in the suggestions, which may or may not help

Swearing in Fiction

I'm not a sweary person - I don't disapprove of it, but it's just not me. I don't usually feel the need to include it in my writing, using non sweary curses, made up fantasy curses and other language instead. What are your thoughts? Does it have a place? It's in genuine situations of shock and...

www.sffchronicles.com

Swearing in books

Hello, first post here at the forums, though I am a long time reader. I was curious to know people's position on swearing in books. Personally, I think it's acceptable and I don't mind it at all, if it seems real. I don't like it when those words are used just to use them, it doesn't seem...

www.sffchronicles.com

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think it is fine if it is in character, but for me (speaking as a reader here) a little can go a long way. If the character uses profanity in every other sentence, even if they are the type of person who would do so in real life, it quickly becomes boring. It doesn't take much to establish that a character is rough and profane, or cool and rebellious, or whatever it is the author wants to demonstrate with the swearing, and after that it becomes tedious if repeated over and over and over. Worst of all, when you need them to swear in order to show real emotion or distress it won't work because it's become their commonplace way of speaking and it's lost its impact. They might as well be saying "corn flakes" for all the power their words will have.

On the other hand, any person, real or fictional, if put under enough stress will probably come out with a profanity or two. And if they are are a character who doesn't ordinarily swear, if they find themselves in a situation where they suddenly come out with a string of profanity, that will have impact. Readers will know exactly how they are feeling and how serious the circumstances are.

 

[atsouthorn]

I don't include it personally, just because I don't think it adds to my style or what I'm trying to achieve. However, I'm well aware that if I was to write something a bit grittier, then I'd probably include profanity to fit the style/characters. You see it can really boost the style of someone's writing e.g. Joe Abercrombie.

Also, it goes without saying Thomas the Tank Engine never belted down the tracks shouting "choo choo motherf*****s", and Sam never told Gollum to go "f*** himself" because that's obviously completely against that market and the style of stories (although wasn't the word b***h in Harry Potter?). Beyond that, people appealing to Young Adult/New Adult probably have a choice to make over whether profanity would decrease their marketability if there's a swear word on every page, or if it's vital for the characters.

 

[Overread]

The only other time it stands out to me is if the word feels out of place within the setting itself and that has less to do with swearing and more to do with the style of setting. Eg it seems abnormal to me to read a fantasy story and have characters saying "cool".

Another way to get around it is to have swear words that are based on your setting. Eg The Black Library books for Warhammer 40K often use "throne" as a swear word. Which is in references to the Golden Throne and the Emperor of Mankind in that setting. Within the stories it makes sense as a swear word.

Of course you still have to use it like its a swear word, so again you don't need it every other words from your "swears like a sailor" character. At the same time it does mean that it might pass for young adult and such because its not got "real" swearing in it.

 

[AllanR]

It is related to the use of filler words (umm), bad grammar and quirky sayings.
These all exists far more in real life than in literature, yet if you try to depict accurately you risk bogging down your reader. Peppered appropriately swearing can add, done poor it can make something unreadable.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Definitely for. I think it lends realism to the characters. Unless it's third person and you're narrating. That's just uncouth.

 

[JS Wiig]

Check out Kiva Lagos in Scalzi’s Interdependency series…

*edit* oops you said fantasy

 

[Flaviosky]

On the other hand, any person, real or fictional, if put under enough stress will probably come out with a profanity or two. And if they are are a character who doesn't ordinarily swear, if they find themselves in a situation where they suddenly come out with a string of profanity, that will have impact. Readers will know exactly how they are feeling and how serious the circumstances are.

These can be quite useful to strengthen certain moments in the story. I find swearing to add some realism in characters, including those who swear a lot because of being low-end bandits and such.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Unless it adds something to the character, I would leave it out. We all stumble over words, stutter, mispronounce etc from time to time - it doesn't have to be incorporated into text to make it authentic.

 

[Phyrebrat]

The only other time it stands out to me is if the word feels out of place within the setting itself and that has less to do with swearing and more to do with the style of setting. Eg it seems abnormal to me to read a fantasy story and have characters saying "cool".

I think this is right on the money.

I'm not scared of using swearing (in my horror and weird fic) but my second book is set in 1860s East London and although there was the use of certain expletives that are common today, reading them in that era seemed awkward in the way that 'cool' does above, too. Plus there are far more enjoyable words and terms of phrase to use that were genuinely in use at that time.

Fantasy? Hmm, I don't know. Something about GOTs makes the foul langauge acceptable, and the alternative of making up your own is fine, but can come across as a bit naff; "Tanj" in Ringworld springs to mind, but I've read little fantasy so I can't think of an example.

 

[AllanR]

Deadwood did this well, they made up swear words and took some from history.

my second book is set in 1860s East London and although there was the use of certain expletives that are common today, reading them in that era seemed awkward in the way that 'cool' does above, too. Plus there are far more enjoyable words and terms of phrase to use that were genuinely in use at that time.

 

[Wayne Mack]

I would place myself near to the not use it end of the scale. For my writing, I use only the mildest of profanities and even use those very sparingly. When reading, I feel most profanity usage seems gratuitous and does not really aid the story nor build the characters. One of the lessons I learned in my childhood was that the use of profanity was inarticulate expression and so I try to have characters find a better way to express themselves.

 

[Biskit]

It depends on who and what I'm writing. The narrator in my urban fantasies doesn't swear (not sure if that's 100% true, but close) but will quote others swearing. Since the general tone of the books is distinctly vulgar a bit of swearing ought to disappear into the background.

My current WIP, which is technically sci-fi, has four main characters in 1st person, and one swears, extensively, and even refers to himself as "potty-mouth". However, in the bit that I've just finished the first draft of, he is working undercover and has a doodad in his head to maintain his cover story and block his swearing which would otherwise be utterly inappropriate in the circumstances. As a result, he still swears in the narrative to the reader, but not in direct quotes of his own speech where he has a stuttering speech impediment.

Perhaps I could write him without the swearing, but he is a foul-mouthed, foul-tempered ******* and I suspect I would then lose the contrast with one of the other characters who his "prim and prissy" verbal nemesis. Overall, I don't think it would be credible to tone him down to a "gosh darn it" when he has a life that is a continuous sequence of set-backs akin to hitting himself on the finger with a hammer twice, again and again...**

As a final thought, writing a character who almost lives in a permanent state of boiling frustration and fury, with full-blown profanity, is tremendously cathartic.

@Wayne Mack makes an interesting point

One of the lessons I learned in my childhood was that the use of profanity was inarticulate expression

and there are places where I've given a character profanity laden dialogue because he is seriously inarticulate, and certainly not a nice lad. I could just try to describe him and an uncouth and inarticulate chap, but I don't think that would really cut it. (In contrast, I have worked with a few people over the years who could deliver outstandingly articulate profanity.)

As with so many writing issues, it depends on the story, the character, the intended readership and how you want to write it.



** I have hit myself on the finger with a hammer. Gosh darn it certainly didn't cover the situation.

 

[BAYLOR]

I don't have a problem with swearing and profanity in fantasy .

 

[DAgent]

If it's overdone, then swearing can either end up becoming ineffective or maybe the subject of humour, but might still be the subject of the censors favourite sniping scissors. In some cases some language that isn't swearing but might be offensive to certain audiences has been edited out, like the renaming Aunt Fanny (which means different body parts in both the UK and the USA) apparently had in the Famous Five books (I've never read them) and how Hasbro decided to rename one of the Transformers from Slag (because of his ability to breath fire so hot he could melt other robots into slag) into Slug because after about 25 years of this character being around they finally found out about the sexual coronations of calling a woman a slag in the UK.

Bizarrely, Fanny as a name was well in use for along time.

With that said several sci fi shows and comics have made up their own swearing, Judge Dredd's "Drokk" and "Grud on a Greenie", Red Dwarfs "Smeg" (which apparently isn't derived from Smegma), Battlestar Galactica (both versions) have "Frak" and Farscape gave us "Frell" (both of these last ones are of course their versions of the F word). If you've heard of the UK sitcom Porridge they came up with the phrase "Naff Off" to get around the censorship of the 70's, and a lot of these terms all sound like proper swearing, even if some terms like "Smeg" and "Naff" area bit multipurpose. Naff by itself just means something is rubbish or bad in UK slang.

I guess it depends on who the publishers are and their stance on it, in which case making up your own swear words could be fun.

 

[Toby Frost]

I think it depends a lot on the circumstances. A story where people say "Have at you, villain!" will feel different to one where they say "F*** off and die!". There's also the fact that some swear words feel overly modern or specifically British or American. I remember finding it slightly ridiculous when Locke Lamora called the villain "motherf***er". A lot of fantasy is mock-medieval European, so obvious Americanisms are probably out. I suppose if you're really going for accuracy, people would be more bothered by blasphemy and less bothered by crude descriptions in the medieval era (generally).

(That said, I was watching The Wire yesterday and there's something quite good about some of the swearing. It's amusingly ingenious in parts.)

 

[M. Robert Gibson]

which apparently isn't derived from Smegma

I find that hard to believe (despite what Grant and Naylor say) given this reaction when Lister and Kryten are asked, quite innocently, "What does smeg mean?"

 

[farntfar]

Yes make you're own gorram language up. But do it for other things as well as swear word to keep it shiney.

 

[The Big Peat]

I am all for swearing in theory - have your character Malcolm Tucker the the living s**tlights out of everyone - but the practice rarely seems to work out.