The Big Sleep slang question

[Danny McG]

I've got to this passage of the 1939 novel, what on Earth is a 'torcher'?

Conversation Quote:-

“What did the girl do before she married Eddie Mars?”
“Torcher.”
“Can’t you get any old professional photos?”

 

[hitmouse]

A singer of torch songs, which were sentimental love songs.

We used to use it to refer to the bathroom effects the morning after a particularly spicy vindaloo, usually ingested late on a Friday night after a proper skinfull. Aka a real ring-stinger.

 

[Danny McG]

A singer of torch songs, which were sentimental love songs.

Never heard of such like.
Cheers

 

[Randy M.]

Torch singers (as in, "carrying a torch for"; that is, being in love with sometimes with the connotation of it being hopeless or unrequited): see also Jo Stafford, also Julie London, among many others. In the '80s Carly Simon put out a cover album, Torch; Linda Rondstadt put out a cover album, For Sentimental Reasons. Not sure if Judy Garland was ever considered a torch singer, but she could deliver a torch song: But Not for Me.

 

[Dave]

as in, "carrying a torch for";

I never knew where that expression came from, I thought it was a flaming torch to represent "flames of love." I learn something new here everyday!

Clearly I'm very wrong but I was going to suggest something else... that she was a cinema usherette. Those that carried the red torches with bullseye lens, and pointed people to the empty cinema seats.

 

[Extollager]

Here's a Top 40 torch song for ya.

 

[dask]

Never heard the expression either. Wonder if it made it into the film?

 

[paranoid marvin]

I never knew where that expression came from, I thought it was a flaming torch to represent "flames of love." I learn something new here everyday!

Clearly I'm very wrong but I was going to suggest something else... that she was a cinema usherette. Those that carried the red torches with bullseye lens, and pointed people to the empty cinema seats.

I immediately thought of usherette with the term 'torcher'.

But in context with the conversation, if there could be professional photos, this would make her a member of the entertainment or fashion industry.

 

[tinkerdan]

This can have several meanings; but I think it might be wise to consider that what you would start from is the idea of carrying a torch for someone.
This usually means someone loves someone who doesn't love them--unrequited love. It is easy to go from there to being the mistress of a married man; possibly one that has money.

What usually happens in that dynamic, is that the woman falls in love even though initially it started as a fling. The woman then will hold onto the notion that maybe some day the marriage will end--somehow.

From that it might be that the woman was living the lifestyle of a rich man's mistress--not really working--but having a rather high lifestyle.
That might fit in the context to the narrative and dialogue at that spot.

 

[JunkMonkey]

According to my copy of Cassell's Dictionary of Slang:

torch for v. [1940s+] [orig. US] to mourn a dead love affair: to offer unrequited love. [CARRY A TORCH]
torchy adj. [1940s ] (US) suffering unrequited love.

 

[Astro Pen]

A torch mercilessly extinguished in You're so Vain.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Can't say I've ever heard the term "torcher" before either. Carrying a torch for someone is obviously familiar. But not knowing the book or anything about it, I can't be certain that that's what it's about. Two other possibilities immediately occurred to me. That she was a torturer - and the speaker has a bad lisp! Or she was an arsonist! But who knows? Maybe she was just a long suffering lost in love dreamer who finally got her man - or sang songs about such people!

Cheers, Greg

 

[Dave]

I think this has been answered. The quote about "professional photos" of her suggests she was an artiste, and a singer of "torch" songs makes the most sense. The question is whether it was a word in common usage, or a word made up by Raymond Chandler?

 

[The Judge]

Per the Online Etymology Dictionary:

torcher (n.) "torch-carrier," c. 1600; see torch (n.). Meaning "torch singer" attested by 1940.​

So as The Big Sleep was published in 1939, it's one of the first references in print, but also from the OED

​

Torch song is 1927 ("My Melancholy Baby," performed by Tommy Lyman, is said to have been the first so called), from carry a torch "suffer an unrequited love" (also 1927), Broadway slang, but the sense is obscure.​

I doubt it took 22 years for someone in the Broadway theatres to go from "torch song singer" to "torch singer" to "torcher" so my money is on it being common slang long before Chandler used it.

 

[JunkMonkey]

If I knew how to drive this better I'm sure it would provide some interesting insights into this conversation.

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Ngrams: torcher, 1800-2019

books.google.com

 

[tinkerdan]

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Ngrams: torcher, 1600-2019

books.google.com

You didn't go back far enough.
Seems to have birthed somewhere near 1720 and met it's peek around 1745.

I'm betting that that's someone who carries a real touch with intent to use it.

Somewhere there with pitch-forkers.
Oh good the auto censor didn't object to that one.

sixty years after the peek some wiseguy thought immolator sounded better.

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Ngrams: immolator, 1600-2019

books.google.com

Oh:
Sorry.
Pitchforker came much later.

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Ngrams: pitchforker, 1600-2019

books.google.com

by the way--the annotated version of Big Sleep has this.
Torcher: torch singer was one of the female singers who sang mostly in nightclubs.
Did not even know there wan an annotated version.

 

[JunkMonkey]

by the way--the annotated version of Big Sleep has this.
Torcher: torch singer was one of the female singers who sang mostly in nightclubs.
Did not even know there wan an annotated version.

There's an annotated version of everything" (1)



(1) Including this post.

 

[tinkerdan]

I have yet to see an annotated version of my novel.