[x] of the [y] or [y]'s [x]?

Mon0Zer0

Mon0Zer0

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I'm having a brain fart. Are there any style conventions around the use of possessive sentences like the below?

a: The walls of the cargo area were pressed firm against his hunched shoulders...

b: The cargo area's walls were pressed firm against his hunched shoulders...
 
The only rule or convention is to use the one that's best in the circumstances. If, for instance, this was dialogue or very close POV narrative and the character never used contractions then I'd use style (a), but otherwise, unless the rhythm of the surrounding text or the words themselves required something longer, I'd go for style (b). Here I'd likely go for (a) as (b) sounds too awkward to my ears when read aloud with that "walls were".

(However, while I'm here, the "were pressed firm" isn't right unless there is some force that is pressing them -- if they're just ordinary walls, then he's pressing himself against them, and it's "firmly". And to be even more pedantic, if his shoulders are hunched, it's more likely his back which is pressing, not the shoulders themselves.)
 
Thanks both.

The Judge said:
(However, while I'm here, the "were pressed firm" isn't right unless there is some force that is pressing them -- if they're just ordinary walls, then he's pressing himself against them, and it's "firmly". And to be even more pedantic, if his shoulders are hunched, it's more likely his back which is pressing, not the shoulders themselves.)
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Good point. The situation is a very, very large (non-human) person in a small space (like the cargo area of a transit van), so they have to hunch forward to fit. I originally thought the non-rigidity of the walls would create pressure - but I guess you're right, it's the shoulders doing the pushing.

Back pressing makes me think of sitting against something, rather than between - backs of his shoulders? I'm thinking of the shoulder as being the 180-ish degrees from front to back around the joint, and the back proper as being from one underarm to the other. Wouldn't shoulder still apply in this instance?

"His shoulders were hunched, pressed firm against the [side] walls of the cargo area..." ?
 
Re the shoulder issue, it probably depends on what you mean by "hunched" and how you think he's sitting. I was envisaging him shaped like a C, ie very rounded shoulders, head very lowered, so his shoulder blades aren't in contact with the walls, though if he's very large they might be in contact with the ceiling! But I only raised it as I was looking closely at the sentence, and if I'd read it as part of a story I might not even have noticed it.

Just to repeat though, it's "firmly" -- it's describing a verb so the adverb is needed.

(However, I have to say that for me it's not a particular inviting sentence, the "were hunched" gives it a passive feel, the descriptor adds nothing, and it's lacking in energy and feeling. Something simple like "He sat hunched against the wall of the cargo area" gives not only his posture, but as it's him that's hunched, not the shoulders, it adds a layer of emotion since we hunch up if we're worried or frightened. Of course, if he's neither then that doesn't work, but something like "Shoulders hunched, he squeezed into the space" or "Having to hunch his shoulders to fit, the wall panels digging into his back" makes him active and the focus of the sentence.)
 
A couple of thoughts:
I agree with @The Judge and might press on further.

Is this the first time that the cargo area is mentioned.
If it is then it's fine to mention it now; however...

If it is already established that he's in the cargo area then clean up the sentence much like this.

The confining walls pressed against his body.
or
The walls pressed against his body.

The cargo area walls pressed against his body.

I'm not sure we need to show possession here.

Unless somewhere down the line there is a problem with his shoulders because of the walls pressing, you might not need that much detail.
Don't you hate it when you ask for help on one part of the sentence and get critique on the whole thing?
 
The Judge said:
Just to repeat though, it's "firmly" -- it's describing a verb so the adverb is needed.
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Fair point - I preferred the sound of "pressed firm" to "pressed firmly" (or "firmly pressed"). I can probably use a better verb though to avoid the use of an adverb.

The Judge said:
(However, I have to say that for me it's not a particular inviting sentence, the "were hunched" gives it a passive feel, the descriptor adds nothing, and it's lacking in energy and feeling. Something simple like "He sat hunched against the wall of the cargo area" gives not only his posture, but as it's him that's hunched, not the shoulders, it adds a layer of emotion since we hunch up if we're worried or frightened. Of course, if he's neither then that doesn't work, but something like "Shoulders hunched, he squeezed into the space" or "Having to hunch his shoulders to fit, the wall panels digging into his back" makes him active and the focus of the sentence.)
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tinkerdan said:
Unless somewhere down the line there is a problem with his shoulders because of the walls pressing, you might not need that much detail.
Don't you hate it when you ask for help on one part of the sentence and get critique on the whole thing?
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hahaha - no, it's fine. What doesn't kill you only leaves you with ptsd... or something. If it improves the prose then it's worth it.

For context, this is the third sentence in an opening paragraph of a chapter, and the first time the character is featured in the book (although readers will know his identity from previous books). The purpose of the paragraph is to emphasize the character's size (and bulk - they're a mutant warmachine) and give the location / situation.
 
I would suggest 'tightly' rather than 'firmly'. I would also consider using a 'cargo bay' or 'cargo hold' as 'cargo area' doesn't suggest that it is confined. And also perhaps 'between' rather than against, as this would indicate a confined space? And as the cargo walls are inanimate, I would switch the sentence the other way around, so :

His hunched shoulders pressed tightly between the cargo bay walls.
 
Sorry for reviving an old discussion, but this topic got me thinking about an old rule taught by my highschool English teacher long ago:
"Use [y]'s [x] only if [y] is an animate object, and use [x] of the [y] otherwise."
Are there some veracity to this rule?
 
Travalgar said:
Are there some veracity to this rule?
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Interesting. I've never heard of such a rule, but I think it must be (or must have been) in quite widespread use, because when I think of examples, it does seem to instinctively follow (which suggests I've picked it up subconsciously from decades of reading).
 
I've never heard of such a rule, and quickly checking my Oxford English published by OUP in the 1980s there's nothing about it.

I'd certainly say eg "The car's radiator" or "The bike's brakes" and the OE itself has "Your money's worth" as an example.

If there were such a rule in the past, I wonder if it came about because an inanimate object can't possess things in the same way as a person or animal can. Dunno. Anyhow, I'd counsel that you ignore it as a rule and just use whatever feels right in the circumstances eg I wouldn't say "The house's door" because it feels clumsy, but I wouldn't have "of the" either in that case, but probably "The door to/into the house".
 
Travalgar said:
Sorry for reviving an old discussion, but this topic got me thinking about an old rule taught by my highschool English teacher long ago:
"Use [y]'s [x] only if [y] is an animate object, and use [x] of the [y] otherwise."
Are there some veracity to this rule?
Click to expand...
I'd comment but I wouldn't want to make a y's x of myself.
 
The thought of actual rules applying to the English language is amusing… I like the idea of animate/inanimate things determining which to use but in practice English obeys its own prescribed rules as—never mind, no current affairs.

Also, pick up any book and you’ll find all the rules so cherished here in Chrons mean nothing really and are broken as often as kept.
 
Well, I think the issue of shoulder vs wall (and which is doing the pressing) has been well and truly overthought. And I heartily approve, being a lover of excessive pedantry myself. As my contribution, I will remind you of Newton's Third Law; for every force there is an equal and opposite force.
 
I vote for:
b: The cargo area's walls were pressed firmly against his hunched shoulders...
No idea about the grammar, but it sounds much better to me.
 
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