2.04: Star Trek: Picard - Watcher
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ctg
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A lot of political backlash in the comments, I haven't watched. I just chose a proper picture for the title, but people are also slashing out on Discovery, and since I haven't watched the last season, I can only assume that the show became somewhat polarised and connected to the current political climate.
It did, which made it an outstanding episode, in my opinion.
All political posturing aside, I got more than one laugh from Raffi's and Seven's escape in the stolen police SUV. The look on the policewoman's face after they beamed out was hilarious.
The Borg Queen is proving surprisingly useful, although I imagine she wants more from Agnes than casual conversation. I expect that relationship to go terribly wrong soon.
Rios' budding romance with Teresa is puzzling. I doubt that she would leave her calling to go with him, but would he remain in 2024 for love? That would do a number on the timeline.
I feel like there was a deleted scene in episode 1 where Agnes grumbled "Why can't I meet someone who appreciates my mind?" and Q snapped his fingers with an evil grin in the background ...
ctg
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It is hard for me to not to be biased, when I've read a few pieces that has been negative on the current ST production. However, we have to keep in mind that ST Picard is especially aimed for the Trekkies. Nevertheless, it seems to be slightly dividing the fans as we have seen from the Orville that the general audience likes the classical space-opera.
To me the Q-centric episodes were a lot of fillers, even though I should think them as the ST showing a face of deities that are certainly a possibility in the infinite universe. It's kind of funny that they'll never talk about God, or religions even though they show occasionally god-like persons. Q being one of them, but if you compared it to B5, ST falls far behind in the scope and in the magnitude. Q and the other anomalies just aren't there, in my honest opinion.
In the regards of the Picard and the current season, we also have to remember that they are showing Alt Reality and not the Prime timeline. And in this version, the extreme happens.
Now that I've reset my brain and hopefully yours, let's see how they did fare.
"I know how to read tricorder," Raffi said. That might be so, but doing actual, actionable science with it at 21st century is slightly questionable, because there should so many signals and filtering out all the false-positives is a lot of work.
I also loved that nurse in charge acted naturally, as if the immigration officers had raided the office and moved the illegals to a storage. I get that it might wind some people, because it too is a political context that only has been magnified with all sorts of political movements in the past ten years.
I liked that like any other admiral or military officer, Picard not only took the Alt Reality La Sirena to a spin through a combat, he also went and checked things. I can imagine he has been all over the ship and checked its tech against his knowledge, but I felt cheated about the cloaking device until I remember that the dark Alt Reality had conquered a lot of species, including the Borg's.
So, using it to mask the ship's signature should have been the first thing they should have done, because of all the satellites at above. You only need one geek looking at the spot, and it'll be obvious. Even then, one thing that the cloaking cannot mask is the trail of destruction behind the ship that somehow got fixed in this episode. Not that it really mattered as Château Picard has been abandoned for nearly a century at 2024.
It feels weird, especially as it is a winery and I cannot think any rich people, who wouldn't want their own winery at France in the past forty years. It is one of those luxury things. But in the ST universe, it is so.
What didn't surprise me was Picard falling into his memories. But I loved that Agnes did imagine little Picard wandering around the halls and ordering, "Milk, Chocolate, hot." It is quite a thing to put the shadow of the admiral over the little man, when he was still so innocent.
Picard looked at the bottle and said, "Fascinating. You moved 15 beads on the abacus. You chose the 15th volume of the Britannica. And a pinot noir. 1915." Pinot Noir, 1915, unobtanium, price ridiculous. Man, you can see it on Admiral's face that he's delighted and frightened.
"Agnes, I think your marvellous mind is trying to tell us something."
Yes, but in a super freaky way and it is a marvel that Indiana Picard did made the connections, so easily, because not that many would have made the observations. Getting the 15th edition of the Britannica from the cover is quite something. But at least it showed the information they needed for the Watcher. That they had three days to solve the time paradox, before the splinter would happen in this quantum universe.
I loved that Picard teleported to save the future, and Agnes stayed in the ship, guarding the Borg Queen. What surprised me was that the Queen chose to first acknowledge Agnes brilliance and than on the next turn she tried to turn her to the Borg side.
Are the punk rockers and boom boxes with double cassette slots, still a thing in the old US of A? Besides that point I find it funny how that punk is sitting with half of his arse hanging on nothing. At London it never happens and we still have a fair share of very active punk rockers, and while they might be occasionally loud and somewhat anarchic, they don't want to look like idiots in the public transport service. Maybe 'murica is different?
I also don't get why Raffi was on verge of tears for losing Cpt Rios? She, herself is a bloody captain. Why she isn't acting like one? A sailor going awol at shore leave, should be a very normal thing, and yet, she was weeping as if she'd lost a child and not a grown up, adult male FFS. With all respect, grow some cojones, ma'am.
She did show them on the next scene in the police station, but yet, they weren't connected to her brain. It was a lot of growl and nothing really happened.
Yeah, I'm feeling the same, and I should have also guessed. Guinan, three hundred years youngs and many kilos lighter. Still the same attitude. Picard said, "I thought Ten-Four was always open," and I thought he'd lost his mind, before I realised that he was trying to make a connection by using a reference that has happened yet.
Stupid move that got handed back when Guinan shoved a shotty on his face. But I loved that they continued the conversation with a bottle of bourbon and a shotty. The smart move was to use the dog to ease the tension and Picard did it without treats. Just a few scratches and showing love to Luna.
The most surprising thing was that Guinan chose to send Luna away, thus finalising her decision to shut down the business. It kind of proves that all the important things happens in the pub and closing them can have a huge ramifications in the future.
Guinan told that her motivation for leaving was because humans are killing the planet and not even knowing it being alive. "Because their greatest fear is having less. They got one tiny ball in the entire galaxy, and all this species wants to do is fight."
Now, I'm saying that it is changing. We don't want to fight in the endless wars. Not for anyone. But we also have to remember that this is Alt Reality, even if it is hitting very close to home. ST has always been saying these things in the right timeslots to hit the nerve. Just like how Picard made Guinan to throw up by repeating the future message back to her, thus making a quantum connection.
"Distance offers no protection from time," Picard said. "This wrong must be righted, something which only you, can help me do."
Guinan's face looked as if she needed another drink. She wasn't much more convinsed by Picard's promises of better future when the streets full of homeless people are everyday presence. Not talking about the wars and conflicts.
Not the most brilliant move, senor Rios. I get the hot blood and the culture, but telling the officer to piss off, stupidity. A smart would have kept his mouth shut and learned the game, like for example what they did in the TWD's Commonwealth holding cells.
Nevertheless, the girls made a great move by nicking a police cruiser. I loved them doing a full blown GTA in the ST style and it made me giggle so much. The best line came from Agnes, when the girls contacted her and told Rios was in the detention centre.
"So things are going well."
The good thing is that they couldn't use the teleporter to save the poor Cpt. GTA style drive around the town was too good to be cut away with a mere teleport trick. Done that and we wouldn't have had a story of Rios telling a TT story to an ICE officer or Seven asking about the yellow light, and Raffi telling her, "It means go faster." And then screaming at her to "stop," when the light turned red.
Women, always right in wrong moment, and then doing the wrong thing. Luckily Seven is a better driver than she gives out, but speeding across the LA in a stolen police cruiser, pure brilliance. Why there weren't hundred other popo's following them in 'murica style with the news helicopters whirling at above?
Only three showed up. Thanks to the Queen's deal, the teleport trick made the escape real and the girls didn't had to bust down a prison transfer with the police on their tail. That dashcam footage however is going to be a great, especially connected to the cockpit voice recorder. LEO is going to be talking about that escape for a long time, at a various drinking establishments.
How can you say no to that face woman? Give him some tea and biscuits, and listen to his tale. Funnily Picard had to use his name and the 400-year reference to get Guinan to spill on the Watchers. "You're looking for a Supervisor, otherwise known as a Watcher. They're peppered through the galaxy, assigned to protect the destiny of certain individuals. They are not big explainers. They see themselves as kind of guardian angels. Anyway, I-I can get you a face-to-face... sort of."
"Uh..." Picard squinted his eyes. "What do you mean sort of?"
Guinan squirmed and spilled, "Let's just say I suspect she's very much gonna want to meet you."
"Thank you." Picard smiled.
"Oh, don't thank me yet, (mon cheri)." LOL "Trust me, she's a pill."
What surprised me was that they went to same park, where I have watched people magnet fishing murder weapons and a fleet of electric scooters, amongst other things. And it looked clean. The watcher however, different beast.
I especially liked that she showed telepathic powers, giving psionics a much needed turn, because the theory is that telepathy is a major communications method in the universe. We just haven't developed it, yet.
Who the bloody hell is Laris? And why Q lost his powers?
To me the Q-centric episodes were a lot of fillers, even though I should think them as the ST showing a face of deities that are certainly a possibility in the infinite universe. It's kind of funny that they'll never talk about God, or religions even though they show occasionally god-like persons. Q being one of them, but if you compared it to B5, ST falls far behind in the scope and in the magnitude. Q and the other anomalies just aren't there, in my honest opinion.
In the regards of the Picard and the current season, we also have to remember that they are showing Alt Reality and not the Prime timeline. And in this version, the extreme happens.
Now that I've reset my brain and hopefully yours, let's see how they did fare.
"I know how to read tricorder," Raffi said. That might be so, but doing actual, actionable science with it at 21st century is slightly questionable, because there should so many signals and filtering out all the false-positives is a lot of work.
I also loved that nurse in charge acted naturally, as if the immigration officers had raided the office and moved the illegals to a storage. I get that it might wind some people, because it too is a political context that only has been magnified with all sorts of political movements in the past ten years.
I liked that like any other admiral or military officer, Picard not only took the Alt Reality La Sirena to a spin through a combat, he also went and checked things. I can imagine he has been all over the ship and checked its tech against his knowledge, but I felt cheated about the cloaking device until I remember that the dark Alt Reality had conquered a lot of species, including the Borg's.
So, using it to mask the ship's signature should have been the first thing they should have done, because of all the satellites at above. You only need one geek looking at the spot, and it'll be obvious. Even then, one thing that the cloaking cannot mask is the trail of destruction behind the ship that somehow got fixed in this episode. Not that it really mattered as Château Picard has been abandoned for nearly a century at 2024.
It feels weird, especially as it is a winery and I cannot think any rich people, who wouldn't want their own winery at France in the past forty years. It is one of those luxury things. But in the ST universe, it is so.
What didn't surprise me was Picard falling into his memories. But I loved that Agnes did imagine little Picard wandering around the halls and ordering, "Milk, Chocolate, hot." It is quite a thing to put the shadow of the admiral over the little man, when he was still so innocent.
Picard looked at the bottle and said, "Fascinating. You moved 15 beads on the abacus. You chose the 15th volume of the Britannica. And a pinot noir. 1915." Pinot Noir, 1915, unobtanium, price ridiculous. Man, you can see it on Admiral's face that he's delighted and frightened.
"Agnes, I think your marvellous mind is trying to tell us something."
Yes, but in a super freaky way and it is a marvel that Indiana Picard did made the connections, so easily, because not that many would have made the observations. Getting the 15th edition of the Britannica from the cover is quite something. But at least it showed the information they needed for the Watcher. That they had three days to solve the time paradox, before the splinter would happen in this quantum universe.
I loved that Picard teleported to save the future, and Agnes stayed in the ship, guarding the Borg Queen. What surprised me was that the Queen chose to first acknowledge Agnes brilliance and than on the next turn she tried to turn her to the Borg side.
Are the punk rockers and boom boxes with double cassette slots, still a thing in the old US of A? Besides that point I find it funny how that punk is sitting with half of his arse hanging on nothing. At London it never happens and we still have a fair share of very active punk rockers, and while they might be occasionally loud and somewhat anarchic, they don't want to look like idiots in the public transport service. Maybe 'murica is different?
I also don't get why Raffi was on verge of tears for losing Cpt Rios? She, herself is a bloody captain. Why she isn't acting like one? A sailor going awol at shore leave, should be a very normal thing, and yet, she was weeping as if she'd lost a child and not a grown up, adult male FFS. With all respect, grow some cojones, ma'am.
She did show them on the next scene in the police station, but yet, they weren't connected to her brain. It was a lot of growl and nothing really happened.
Yeah, I'm feeling the same, and I should have also guessed. Guinan, three hundred years youngs and many kilos lighter. Still the same attitude. Picard said, "I thought Ten-Four was always open," and I thought he'd lost his mind, before I realised that he was trying to make a connection by using a reference that has happened yet.
Stupid move that got handed back when Guinan shoved a shotty on his face. But I loved that they continued the conversation with a bottle of bourbon and a shotty. The smart move was to use the dog to ease the tension and Picard did it without treats. Just a few scratches and showing love to Luna.
The most surprising thing was that Guinan chose to send Luna away, thus finalising her decision to shut down the business. It kind of proves that all the important things happens in the pub and closing them can have a huge ramifications in the future.
Guinan told that her motivation for leaving was because humans are killing the planet and not even knowing it being alive. "Because their greatest fear is having less. They got one tiny ball in the entire galaxy, and all this species wants to do is fight."
Now, I'm saying that it is changing. We don't want to fight in the endless wars. Not for anyone. But we also have to remember that this is Alt Reality, even if it is hitting very close to home. ST has always been saying these things in the right timeslots to hit the nerve. Just like how Picard made Guinan to throw up by repeating the future message back to her, thus making a quantum connection.
"Distance offers no protection from time," Picard said. "This wrong must be righted, something which only you, can help me do."
Guinan's face looked as if she needed another drink. She wasn't much more convinsed by Picard's promises of better future when the streets full of homeless people are everyday presence. Not talking about the wars and conflicts.
Not the most brilliant move, senor Rios. I get the hot blood and the culture, but telling the officer to piss off, stupidity. A smart would have kept his mouth shut and learned the game, like for example what they did in the TWD's Commonwealth holding cells.
Nevertheless, the girls made a great move by nicking a police cruiser. I loved them doing a full blown GTA in the ST style and it made me giggle so much. The best line came from Agnes, when the girls contacted her and told Rios was in the detention centre.
"So things are going well."
The good thing is that they couldn't use the teleporter to save the poor Cpt. GTA style drive around the town was too good to be cut away with a mere teleport trick. Done that and we wouldn't have had a story of Rios telling a TT story to an ICE officer or Seven asking about the yellow light, and Raffi telling her, "It means go faster." And then screaming at her to "stop," when the light turned red.
Women, always right in wrong moment, and then doing the wrong thing. Luckily Seven is a better driver than she gives out, but speeding across the LA in a stolen police cruiser, pure brilliance. Why there weren't hundred other popo's following them in 'murica style with the news helicopters whirling at above?
Only three showed up. Thanks to the Queen's deal, the teleport trick made the escape real and the girls didn't had to bust down a prison transfer with the police on their tail. That dashcam footage however is going to be a great, especially connected to the cockpit voice recorder. LEO is going to be talking about that escape for a long time, at a various drinking establishments.
How can you say no to that face woman? Give him some tea and biscuits, and listen to his tale. Funnily Picard had to use his name and the 400-year reference to get Guinan to spill on the Watchers. "You're looking for a Supervisor, otherwise known as a Watcher. They're peppered through the galaxy, assigned to protect the destiny of certain individuals. They are not big explainers. They see themselves as kind of guardian angels. Anyway, I-I can get you a face-to-face... sort of."
"Uh..." Picard squinted his eyes. "What do you mean sort of?"
Guinan squirmed and spilled, "Let's just say I suspect she's very much gonna want to meet you."
"Thank you." Picard smiled.
"Oh, don't thank me yet, (mon cheri)." LOL "Trust me, she's a pill."
What surprised me was that they went to same park, where I have watched people magnet fishing murder weapons and a fleet of electric scooters, amongst other things. And it looked clean. The watcher however, different beast.
I especially liked that she showed telepathic powers, giving psionics a much needed turn, because the theory is that telepathy is a major communications method in the universe. We just haven't developed it, yet.
Who the bloody hell is Laris? And why Q lost his powers?
ctg
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The plot seems to be heading that way, plus she's the ultimate control freak.
ctg
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Vladd67
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Watching this I wondered how Guinan didn't recognize Picard being as they met with Mark Twain, but then I reasoned if the future had been changed then Picard hadn't traveled back to the 19th century looking for Data. Time travel gives me a headache.
ctg
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Yep, that I do agree. Thing is with the TT is that you'll have to follow the prime timeline and know where it's diverging, and to be honest, they're still in the alt reality even though the past is the same, because the divergence hasn't happened. But since we are in the episode 4, and there's two and half days before the event, I'm pretty certain that they're going to cut it close and escape back to the future ... probably leaving Q in the past, because he deserves it.
A great episode which definitely gave a lot of fan service!
So, very clearly this is already set in an alt timeline that has not taken place. It isn't a documentary! Any complaints about comparisons to present politics is only people seeing what people want to see.
I hadn't appreciated it last week, but reference was made to Sanctuary Districts last week as that was where Raffaela almost got mugged. There was a sign there with "Europa Mission" on one of the buildings. Just one on the many Easter Eggs that also appeared this week.
They also had Guinan's bar situated at #10 on Forward Street. They had Q siting in Jackson Roykirk Plaza (Jackson Roykirk developed the Nomad space probe seen in the ST: TOS, The Changeling) and the mysterious woman was reading a Dixon Hill Mystery book called "The Palid Child" written by Tracey Torme (scriptwriter on ST: TNG). I'm pretty sure that there was much more that I didn't notice too.
Ah! Well! Back to the actual plot...
I disagree with @REBerg here. I've seen ST: Discovery and I didn't think it was very political, at least not in the same way that this episode of ST: Picard was. I appreciate that there are reports that immigrant children have been taken from parents and locked in cages in the US, and people denied some basic rights and health care products, but are all ICE officers really so brutal and violent as a matter of fact? Also, there was talk of "Sanctuary Districts" that were first seen in a time travelling episode of ST: DS9 called Past Tense pts I & II. it was said that by the early 2020's every major city in the USA has Sanctuary Districts, and the "Bell Riots" took place in 2024 (same time as this was set.)
So, very clearly this is already set in an alt timeline that has not taken place. It isn't a documentary! Any complaints about comparisons to present politics is only people seeing what people want to see.
I hadn't appreciated it last week, but reference was made to Sanctuary Districts last week as that was where Raffaela almost got mugged. There was a sign there with "Europa Mission" on one of the buildings. Just one on the many Easter Eggs that also appeared this week.
Yes, that was one of the Easter Eggs. It was the same song! It might have even been the same actor!
They also had Guinan's bar situated at #10 on Forward Street. They had Q siting in Jackson Roykirk Plaza (Jackson Roykirk developed the Nomad space probe seen in the ST: TOS, The Changeling) and the mysterious woman was reading a Dixon Hill Mystery book called "The Palid Child" written by Tracey Torme (scriptwriter on ST: TNG). I'm pretty sure that there was much more that I didn't notice too.
Ah! Well! Back to the actual plot...
That would have made much more sense, but didn't serve the story. Also, the Transporter not working, and then working but not on moving targets, was a very convenient plot device.
It was Janeway who said Temporal Mechanics always gave her a headache. While they didn't travel back in the end, I would have still thought that Guinan would somehow recognise Picard. She always seemed to exist "out of time."
That, I can't answer. I didn't understand the end at all, and that was probably because I was too busy looking at all the things in the plaza that I mentioned earlier.
My reference was to Picard, not Discovery. I don't recall anything overly political in Discovery.
Okay. Sorry, I misunderstood.
Thinking on this overnight, the "Watchers" could still be "Gary Seven" people, "watching specific people," although they now sound more like The Adjustment Bureau. I'm actually puzzled why Captain Braxton and his Timeship haven't arrived yet to prevent and correct this temporal disruption. There do seem to be an awful lot of different sets of "Time Police" and time manipulators in the future, and yet somehow they never step on each other's toes.
The Bell Riots happen in 2024 and are led by Gabriel Bell (who looks remarkably like Benjamin Sisko.) Could these riots be the pivotal event that happens or doesn't happen in three days time? I wondered why the story has centred so much on the poor treatment of immigrants and Sanctuary Districts, and can't believe that it is only to make some unrelated political point, but I could see that you could draw a line from those things to the different future that they saw.
Why did Q lose his powers? Something happened/changed that was more powerful than a Q. I don't know what or why. It could be to do with the "Watchers." For many years, I expected them to reveal that Gary Seven was in fact a Q himself, but then the writers decided to make the Q more interfering, more juvenile, intervening in events merely for the fun of it.
Thinking on this overnight, the "Watchers" could still be "Gary Seven" people, "watching specific people," although they now sound more like The Adjustment Bureau. I'm actually puzzled why Captain Braxton and his Timeship haven't arrived yet to prevent and correct this temporal disruption. There do seem to be an awful lot of different sets of "Time Police" and time manipulators in the future, and yet somehow they never step on each other's toes.
The Bell Riots happen in 2024 and are led by Gabriel Bell (who looks remarkably like Benjamin Sisko.) Could these riots be the pivotal event that happens or doesn't happen in three days time? I wondered why the story has centred so much on the poor treatment of immigrants and Sanctuary Districts, and can't believe that it is only to make some unrelated political point, but I could see that you could draw a line from those things to the different future that they saw.
Why did Q lose his powers? Something happened/changed that was more powerful than a Q. I don't know what or why. It could be to do with the "Watchers." For many years, I expected them to reveal that Gary Seven was in fact a Q himself, but then the writers decided to make the Q more interfering, more juvenile, intervening in events merely for the fun of it.
Not a problem. My wording could have been more precise.
Out of interest, where do you read this discussion? I'm not interested in the "political backlash," but I would be in the speculation about the "Watcher" and what happened at the end of this episode. This forum here, itself used to be the best place to find that, but there appears to be just the four of us!
I did take a look at Reddit. The theory there was that the Watcher would be Guinan. That was a very good call. Even Picard himself thought it was her, but we now know that it isn't. A second theory was that it would be Benjamin Sisko. That would fit with the Bell Riots, but unlikely. If Avery Brooks was involved in the show at all that would have leaked weeks ago.
I don't think it is actually Laris, but that is the form taken by the Watcher in order to appear most comfortably to Picard.
One thing mentioned on Redit concerned the time that Q met Guinan before. Q said Guinan was "dangerous," while Guinan told Picard that she's dealt with the Q Continuum before. She has a particular dislike for this Q, whom she called an "imp" and a "trouble-maker". Q appeared to be scared of Guinan, and most people are expecting that we may now finally find out why that is.
ctg
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Thanks! Not a lot there, though, is there? Redit and The Trek BBS obviously have all the Star Trek nerds. I laughed at this though:
"light touch agenda!" So, they never watched The Omega Glory or Patterns of Force then?
Vladd67
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Having seen an article that quoted the show runner confirming my theory as to why Guinan didn't recognize Picard it does raise the question as to how there is still life on earth, no federation means no Kirk's trip back in time to bring back the whales that sang to save the earth from the probe. But I guess that is just me being awkwardly pedantic.
Elckerlyc
"Philosophy will clip an angel's wings."
But at the time Picard met Quinan in the bar the future had not been changed yet. That crucial moment still lies 3 days in the future.
You're right though about the headaches...
