What is 'literature' and what SF qualifies?

[Orcadian]

I've searched this thread but failed to find a question on something I'm curious about. Actually the question has two parts. Feel free to respond to either or both!

- What do we mean by 'literature', when we say that a work is amongst the world's great literature (cf Ulysses, Inferno, Pilgrim's Progess, Don Quixote, A Passage to India)?

- Which science fiction books would you seriously class as literature. Not merely something you've enjoyed, or read mulitiple times, and not books we loved when we were children. More importantly, why? What justifies the label 'literature'? I suggest we concentrate on our own nominations rather than criticising each other's suggestions. With luck, we'll all get some excellent additions to our 'to read' list.

I'll start us off by proposing Le Guin's often-overlooked The Dispossessed. This is one of a handful of books that shaped me and deepened my understanding of the human condition. Despite winning both the Hugo and Nebula awards, it is less famous than The Left Hand of Darkness - but is a work of far greater depth, scope and power. We are shown what a communist society could be like if the ideal worked, and the sacrifices people are prepared to make, freely, because they believe their society is good and just. And we come to see that capitalism and communism can each exist only by setting itself apart from the other. As a bonus, through the novel weaves the gold thread of a heartbreaking love story - not the shallow, passionate kind we may be accustomed to reading about, but real, adult love.

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

There is an interesting article here which attempts to define great literature (or at least identify some of its characteristics):

Four Qualities that Make Great Literature Special - Read Great Literature

Classic Literature—truly Great Literature—is something especially worth learning about and treasuring.These four qualities make it unique.

readgreatliterature.com

Within contemporary SF there are many fantastic novels, but I would argue that you rarely feel as though you are reading 'great literature'. Go back a little further and writers like HG Wells, Jules Verne and Jack London would fit the bill.

I think it is fair to say that some contemporary SF is written in a 'literary style'.

 

[alexvss]

- What do we mean by 'literature', when we say that a work is amongst the world's great literature (cf Ulysses, Inferno, Pilgrim's Progess, Don Quixote, A Passage to India)?

Do you mean the classics? A classic is a work of art which all subsequent works depend on. For instance, you know that a book is cyberpunk by comparing it to Neuromancer. Because that’s the standard, and if your so-called cyberpunk novel differs too much from it, it’s not cyberpunk enough. That’s what people who say that the classics were arbitrarily selected get wrong.

 

[hitmouse]

I've searched this thread but failed to find a question on something I'm curious about. Actually the question has two parts. Feel free to respond to either or both!

- What do we mean by 'literature', when we say that a work is amongst the world's great literature (cf Ulysses, Inferno, Pilgrim's Progess, Don Quixote, A Passage to India)?

- Which science fiction books would you seriously class as literature. Not merely something you've enjoyed, or read mulitiple times, and not books we loved when we were children. More importantly, why? What justifies the label 'literature'? I suggest we concentrate on our own nominations rather than criticising each other's suggestions. With luck, we'll all get some excellent additions to our 'to read' list.

I'll start us off by proposing Le Guin's often-overlooked The Dispossessed. This is one of a handful of books that shaped me and deepened my understanding of the human condition. Despite winning both the Hugo and Nebula awards, it is less famous than The Left Hand of Darkness - but is a work of far greater depth, scope and power. We are shown what a communist society could be like if the ideal worked, and the sacrifices people are prepared to make, freely, because they believe their society is good and just. And we come to see that capitalism and communism can each exist only by setting itself apart from the other. As a bonus, through the novel weaves the gold thread of a heartbreaking love story - not the shallow, passionate kind we may be accustomed to reading about, but real, adult love.

The question "what is literature?" is analogous to "what is art?" or "what is erotica?" or "what is SF?" in that it is basically impossible to define objectively. It also reduces a work down to a single word, which seems pointless and lazy in lieu of more argued criticism, and there is a tendency for snobbishness in its use.

WRT to The Disposessed, I don't think it is really overlooked. It is regarded, love or loathe it, as a landmark piece of SF. It is less accessible than LHOD, but this is not a competition. I thought it describes an anarchist society rather than a communist one, but then I read it 40 years ago so I may be forgetting.

 

[Orcadian]

Do you mean the classics? A classic is a work of art which all subsequent works depend on. For instance, you know that a book is cyberpunk by comparing it to Neuromancer. Because that’s the standard, and if your so-called cyberpunk novel differs too much from it, it’s not cyberpunk enough. That’s what people who say that the classics were arbitrarily selected get wrong.

I don't think I mean the 'classics'. AIUI that word is usually used for works that have stood the test of time, that remain popular after decades of even centuries. But things that are popular are not necessarily literature. IMO literature is something rich and stimulating, provoking soul-searching, examination of things you previously thought were simple or agreed-on - or that you hadn't thought about at all.

 

[Orcadian]

There is an interesting article here which attempts to define great literature (or at least identify some of its characteristics):

Four Qualities that Make Great Literature Special - Read Great Literature

Classic Literature—truly Great Literature—is something especially worth learning about and treasuring.These four qualities make it unique.

readgreatliterature.com

Within contemporary SF there are many fantastic novels, but I would argue that you rarely feel as though you are reading 'great literature'. Go back a little further and writers like HG Wells, Jules Verne and Jack London would fit the bill.

I think it is fair to say that some contemporary SF is written in a 'literary style'.

Interesting link, thanks.

I agree that Jack London's science fiction novels are exceptional (also little known), and they probably do qualify, since they broke new ground as well as inviting us to reflect on the animal within us. I won't say more on the other authors you name or I will already be breaking the rule I suggested we adhere to.

The writing is indeed of a high standard in many science fiction novels. I think it takes more than this, though, to deserve the L badge. What do you mean exactly by 'literary style'?

 

[Orcadian]

The question "what is literature?" is analogous to "what is art?" or "what is erotica?" or "what is SF?" in that it is basically impossible to define objectively. It also reduces a work down to a single word, which seems pointless and lazy in lieu of more argued criticism, and there is a tendency for snobbishness in its use.

WRT to The Disposessed, I don't think it is really overlooked. It is regarded, love or loathe it, as a landmark piece of SF. It is less accessible than LHOD, but this is not a competition. I thought it describes an anarchist society rather than a communist one, but then I read it 40 years ago so I may be forgetting.

I think we should both re-read it, Hitmouse. In my memory the 'anarchist' society of Annares is in fact a Communist utopia! I read the book in 1991. I'm left with its powerful impact, plus impressions of characters and world pictures. The insights I gained about both capitalism and communism remain with me.

 

[Dave]

Do you mean the classics?

When you said that, all I could think about is James T Kirk's and Spock conversation when they go back in time to 1980's San Francisco in Star Trek: The Voyage Home:

SPOCK: Your use of language has altered since our arrival. It is currently laced with, ...shall I say, ...more colourful metaphors. 'Double dumb ass on you' ...and so forth.
KIRK: You mean profanity. That's simply the way they talk here. Nobody pays any attention to you if you don't swear every other word. You'll find it in all the literature of the period.
SPOCK: For example?
KIRK: Oh, the collective works of Jacqueline Susann. The novels of Harold Robbins.
SPOCK: Ah! ...'The giants'.

Literature is any collection of written work but there is a good quote by Susan Sontag:

If I were to give a definition of literature as opposed to everything else that is written—because there are many, many, many books, of course, which are not literature—I would say that literature is what you should re-read, and no book is worth reading once if it is not worth reading twice, or three times.

 

[Valtharius]

Literature means writing. Shakespeare? That's literature. Hemingway? Literature. Edward Gibbon? Literature. Stephen King? Literature. Asimov? Literature. The flat earth pamphlets tinfoil hat wearers pass out in the park? It's literature. The stuff on fanfiction.net? That's literature too. So are all the self-published eBooks on Amazon and the 15,000 page handwritten epic poem that some janitor has stashed in his attic. It's all literature. You wrote a sentence on a napkin? That's literature.

 

[Orcadian]

Literature means writing. Shakespeare? That's literature. Hemingway? Literature. Edward Gibbon? Literature. Stephen King? Literature. Asimov? Literature. The flat earth pamphlets tinfoil hat wearers pass out in the park? It's literature. The stuff on fanfiction.net? That's literature too. So are all the self-published eBooks on Amazon and the 15,000 page handwritten epic poem that some janitor has stashed in his attic. It's all literature. You wrote a sentence on a napkin? That's literature.

Perhaps "literature with a small 'l' " could cover all of writing, Valtharius. I mean Literature, such as the examples I gave in my original post.

 

[hitmouse]

I think we should both re-read it, Hitmouse. In my memory the 'anarchist' society of Annares is in fact a Communist utopia! I read the book in 1991. I'm left with its powerful impact, plus impressions of characters and world pictures. The insights I gained about both capitalism and communism remain with me.

To quote le Guin: So, when I realised that nobody had yet written an anarchist utopia, I finally began to see what my book might be.

Probably due a re-read. I lent my copy to someone in the 1980s.

 

[BAYLOR]

Perhaps "literature with a small 'l' " could cover all of writing, Valtharius. I mean Literature, such as the examples I gave in my original post.

You might want to look up Islandia by Austin Tappan Wright Not a science fiction or fantasy but a utopian novel of land that never was .

Of further interest

Limbo by Bernard Wolfe a great Dystopian science fiction novel , often overlooked by many readers
The Heads of Cerberus by Francis Steven has time travel to dystopian future.
In Caverns Below by Stanton Coblentz He was historian, a satirist and Science fiction writer . This about tow prospector exploring the deep caverns in Nevada in which they encounter two waring super civilization of Albino Human fight an endless war. In literary terms Coblentz is not a great writer but he its a terrific satirist. He's largely forgotten.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Anything that moves from the sci fo section to the lit section in shops. 1984, Frankenstein, Clockwork Orange all Spring to mind. HG Wells, too.

 

[Elckerlyc]

I am tempted to count several of Gene Wolfe's novels as literature. Peace and the Latro books for sure.

 

[Swank]

Pessimist definition: When the primary object is navel gazing about the "human condition", that's Literature.

 

[alexvss]

And don't forget that comics are also literature!

 

[Astro Pen]

Literature is whatever they are burning or banning tomorrow.
Best not to be literature.
Sunday they'll come for Orwell and Montag for Bradbury.

 

[The Big Peat]

The Handmaid's Tale seems the most obvious example of a sci-fi book that also qualifies as literature.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Anything that moves from the sci fo section to the lit section in shops. 1984, Frankenstein, Clockwork Orange all Spring to mind. HG Wells, too.

The thing is, the three books you first mention were never written as 'SF': they have been claimed afterwards by others as being of the genre. hence 'moving from the sci-fi section to the lit' feels a bit wrong. They never really moved in the first place.

HG Wells - definitely one of the fathers of SF, mentioned directly by Hugo Gernsback and still popular and influential today - so does deserve to be part of literature.

 

[Elckerlyc]

Jules Verne? Not one particular novel per se but his Complete Works.