Who is correct? Tolkien or Marvel comics?

[farntfar]

As we all know, Frodo was stung by Shelob.
As we also all know Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider.

So what is it, Do spiders sting or do they bite? One of you clever lot must know.
(PS. I also note that the poison went into the two trees from Ungoliant's black beak rather than her rear-end. So JRRT seems a little unsure on this one.)


...................................
My wife used to say that when you woke up with an itch on your leg, if there was one spot it was probably a mosquito or something, but if there were 2 spots together, it was a spider.
Almost certainly some old wives tale, but I used to reckon she thought it was the spider's 2 fangs, which I could never believe, because the spider would have to have a great big mouth to leave 2 clearly separate wounds. This is France; not %%%%dy Australia.

 

[Lumens]

Since you posted this in the science section, they were both wrong.

 

[BAYLOR]

Its Hard to picture Frodo Baggins with his trusty web slingers doing battle with Orcs and Goblins.

 

[Bramandin]

As we all know, Frodo was stung by Shelob.
As we also all know Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider.

So what is it, Do spiders sting or do they bite? One of you clever lot must know.
(PS. I also note that the poison went into the two trees from Ungoliant's black beak rather than her rear-end. So JRRT seems a little unsure on this one.)


...................................
My wife used to say that when you woke up with an itch on your leg, if there was one spot it was probably a mosquito or something, but if there were 2 spots together, it was a spider.
Almost certainly some old wives tale, but I used to reckon she thought it was the spider's 2 fangs, which I could never believe, because the spider would have to have a great big mouth to leave 2 clearly separate wounds. This is France; not %%%%dy Australia.

I have a lot of paired itchy spots and the spiders aren't that big here either. Then again we have finger-length centipedes that could make a bite that large without tissue-swelling pushing the wounds apart.

As I recall, spiders inject digestive juices into their prey and suck it back out, so fangs might be equivalent to a stinger?

 

[BAYLOR]

I have a lot of paired itchy spots and the spiders aren't that big here either. Then again we have finger-length centipedes that could make a bite that large without tissue-swelling pushing the wounds apart.

As I recall, spiders inject digestive juices into their prey and suck it back out, so fangs might be equivalent to a stinger?

There are some south American species of Centipede that can reach a length of 12 inches and there is asotuy about man in Hawaii who cuath and killed a giant Centipede measuring 14 inches long. They've been known to take down giant spiders, snakes, and small mammals. Their bite can be very nasty to humans.

 

[Wayne Mack]

I would give a slight edge to bite, but mainly because of popular usage. Although spiders do not have a stinger in their abdomens for injecting venom into prey, they do have 'fangs' that are located near, but not in, their mouths. The fangs function in a similar manner to stingers and inject venom and digestive enzymes into their prey. They then simply suck the dissolved material into their mouth orifices. Spiders lack teeth and do not chew their food.

The actual mechanics would seem to indicate that sting is the appropriate term. As the action is part of feeding and occurs adjacent to the mouth area would seem to justify bite.

Reference: Do Spiders Use Their Fangs To Sting Or Bite? Waco Pest Control | Waco Exterminator & Termite Control | iPest Solutions.
(There are many more to be found, some from better sources, but I found this description to be the most concise.)

 

[farntfar]

Reference: Do Spiders Use Their Fangs To Sting Or Bite? Waco Pest Control | Waco Exterminator & Termite Control | iPest Solutions.
(There are many more to be found, some from better sources, but I found this description to be the most concise.)

Thank you for that, Wayne. It's very clear.
The next thing to know is how far apart they would be on a pretty small spider, but it would certainly seem the Farovna may well have been right about the 2 puncture marks after all.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Enquiring spiders want to know.

 

[Swank]

I think it is a mistake to assume that what the people of Middle Earth call a "spider" is what an entomologist would.

 

[farntfar]

So your suggestion is that whether or not MC or correct, Tolkien is clearly wrong, because he's not describing a real (in our reality) spider.
I think you may be correct.

Ungoliant is described as taking on the shape of a spider in monstruous form but she was actually some sort of Maia. And Shelob as the last child of Ungoliant. Not that they were very big common spiders.

Are radioactive spiders anatomically the same as ordinary spiders? Another question for the scientists amongst us, although I suspect that any who actually know are contractually bound not to tell us

 

[Foxbat]

Interestingly (at least I think so) insects, arachnids etc are more resistant to radiation than humans because most of the damage done by ionisation is when the cell is in the process of dividing. Creatures such as spiders and insects go longer between cell division stages. This makes them much more resistant to radiation than a human being (whose more complicated and numerous cells cycle through this process much more rapidly--making them much more susceptible to damage).

With all this in mind, I'd say that there is no real difference between an irradiated spider or one not exposed to ionising radiation..if..they are both still alive

 

[Extollager]

They bite.

But Shelob was not a spider. Shelob was spawned by Ungoliant, who may have been a Maia. Shelob may have resembled a spider, and spun webs of some sort, but is not to be classed among the arachnids but rather, I suppose, among the (fallen) angeloi ἄγγελοι. Her kinship thus apparently was with Sauron rather than Charlotte.

 

[farntfar]

It's actually probably a lousy life being a radioactive spider. Every fly you bite, instead of just being paralysed and waiting to be digested, suddenly becomes super strong; able to leap tall webs at a single bound and stuff. Not to mention them suddenly having a spidey-sense.

No fun for the fly's uncle though.

 

[Alex The G and T]

According to The Harvard Lampoon, Schlob was the embittered ex-wife of Sorhed. A Hundred thousand years or so ago, when they were first married, she was a gorgeous Troll-maiden. While hatred and bitterness had transformed her into a hideous monster; she was not, technically arachnid.

 

[Fiberglass Cyborg]

There are some south American species of Centipede that can reach a length of 12 inches and there is asotuy about man in Hawaii who cuath and killed a giant Centipede measuring 14 inches long. They've been known to take down giant spiders, snakes, and small mammals. Their bite can be very nasty to humans.

I stumbled across a nice fact about centipdes: their "fangs" are a pair of modified forelegs, known as "toxicognaths" or "forcipules"

 

[BAYLOR]

I stumbled across a nice fact about centipdes: their "fangs" are a pair of modified forelegs, known as "toxicognaths" or "forcipules"

Arthropleura which lived from 345 to 290 million years ago was the ancestor of Centipedes and Millipedes and could reach a length go over 8 feet long .


.