What are Your Thoughts on Disney's Ownership of the Marvel And Star Wars Franchises ?

[paranoid marvin]

I found Rogue One to be surprisingly good .

Apart from the first 5 minutes of confusingly planet hopping, and the dodgy CGI of Leia (surely this could have been updated quite easily and cheaply now with newer technology?) the movie is as perfect as it could be. In fact second only to ESB. And yes, after the disappointment of the prequels, I too had very low expectations when I saw it at the cinema - which is perhaps why I found it so good. It's one of the very, very rare films that I have watched twice within a short period of time.

 

[BAYLOR]

Apart from the first 5 minutes of confusingly planet hopping, and the dodgy CGI of Leia (surely this could have been updated quite easily and cheaply now with newer technology?) the movie is as perfect as it could be. In fact second only to ESB. And yes, after the disappointment of the prequels, I too had very low expectations when I saw it at the cinema - which is perhaps why I found it so good. It's one of the very, very rare films that I have watched twice within a short period of time.

It's by far , the best Disney Star Wars movie.

I did like the Moff Tarkin scene .

 

[BAYLOR]

I lost confidence in George Lucas after the Prequel films.

 

[JunkMonkey]

Am I the only person on the planet who doesn't like Star Wars?

I'll qualify that - I used to like it. I was blown away by the original when I was a kid. (Saw it in the cinema on its first run aged 16 or so.) Like nothing I had ever seen before - big WOW! factor. Nowadays, I can see past the special effects, and stripped of any nostalgia value, I've come to realise it's not really that good a film. In fact I fell asleep the last time I watched it.

His best film was American Graffiti which actually does get better on repeated viewings.

 

[Swank]

But he's playing a Luke clone--he's the reluctant unlikely hero.

When is Luke ever reluctant? Luke is Martin Blank, trying to get off Tatooine so he can go kill people. People like to say that Luke is a Campbellian hero when he's really a subversion of that trope - brave and skilled robotics tech who can't wait to go into combat.

Wouldn't you say that Rogue One was pretty edgy (well, at least as edgy as a SW movie could be)?

It's also a movie that is basically a backstory to a 40+ year old movie, so it doesn't have a 'proper' ending. If ever there was a 'for the fans' movie, then this was it. And Darth has never been more portrayed more spectacularly than he was at the end of the film.

No, I would not say it is edgy in any way. It is ham-fisted retcon of Star Wars back story, full of un-SW sentimentality and mostly serves as an Easter Egg hunt - right down to having two incredibly 'uncanny valley' zombie guest appearances. It is not supposed to be about Jedi, yet has Jedi replacement characters. And the design of the props and ships violate the aesthetics established in the other films.

It isn't a bad film on its own. I like Erso (despite the silly backstory) and the droid - but it is a SW movie squeezed through a post-2000 filmmaking filter. The fact that the protagonists die isn't edgy - its what we were told on Yavin 45 years ago. It is a story much more like Edge of Tomorrow or Hunger Games.

I've come to realise it's not really that good a film.

I don't think there has ever been a film(s) that is so immersive - there is almost nothing in SW or ESB to remind the viewer of real life and real people.

 

[Swank]

I felt exactly the same about the story he created for Crystal Skull. How could the same bloke who wrote the story for Last Crusade have written this?

How could the man who felt the need to provide backstory explanations for absolutely every Indy characteristic (whip, hat, jacket, snakes, chin scar, name, etc) write something as silly as CS? Seems like the same bloke to me?

Raiders was so good because Lawrence Kasden wrote it - not Lucas. But the screenplays of Skull and LC are different writers as well. "Story by" is a rough idea.

 

[BAYLOR]

Am I the only person on the planet who doesn't like Star Wars?

I'll qualify that - I used to like it. I was blown away by the original when I was a kid. (Saw it in the cinema on its first run aged 16 or so.) Like nothing I had ever seen before - big WOW! factor. Nowadays, I can see past the special effects, and stripped of any nostalgia value, I've come to realise it's not really that good a film. In fact I fell asleep the last time I watched it.

His best film was American Graffiti which actually does get better on repeated viewings.

I Saw Star Wars as teenager in 1977 . It was totally unlikely anything id ever seen before. I loved it and like the two subsequent sequels Eplire and Jedi . But the Prequel s were a huge disappointment. Lucas should have let someone else write and direct those films. I liked t he Abrahms films , Rogue One and Solo.

 

[BAYLOR]

How could the man who felt the need to provide backstory explanations for absolutely every Indy characteristic (whip, hat, jacket, snakes, chin scar, name, etc) write something as silly as CS? Seems like the same bloke to me?

Raiders was so good because Lawrence Kasden wrote it - not Lucas. But the screenplays of Skull and LC are different writers as well. "Story by" is a rough idea.

The inspirations for the Indiana Jones films film were those old cliff hanger movies serials of the 1930's and 1940's , films like Gunga Din, She, Secreats of the Incas (In the latter film Incas one of the props from that film can be seen in the Idol temple scene at the beginning of Raiders.

I had no idea what to expect when I saw Raiders of the Lost Ark in 1981. I was blown away by it . It's still a favorite film as are the sequels.

 

[FirsttotheBlood]

I think Disney is oversaturating the market with both the Marvel and Star Wars products and it has turned me off both of them as a result.

Maybe it's personal preference, maybe it's a generational thing, but I'm tired of being hammered in the face with it.

 

[Swank]

The inspirations for the Indiana Jones films film were those old cliff hanger movies serials of the 1930's and 1940's , films like Gunga Din, She, Secreats of the Incas (In the latter film Incas one of the props from that film can be seen in the Idol temple scene at the beginning of Raiders.

I had no idea what to expect when I saw Raiders of the Lost Ark in 1981. I was blown away by it . It's still a favorite film as are the sequels.

I'm not sure I understand the connection between my post and your response.

 

[BAYLOR]

I'm not sure I understand the connection between my post and your response.

Sorry , I do have a tendency to go into origin of things Histrionics.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I agree with a number of comments that have been made. The storyline for Star Wars isn't the most original, but the trilogy of movies is an experience. You can't look past the spectacle of Death Stars, Star Destroyers, lightsabre duels and the awesome costumes, because those are what made Star Wars what it is. Nostalgia certainly plays a part, but I'm betting that even today most 7 year old kids who had a chance to go to a cinema to watch Star Wars would leave suitably impressed. The humour, the action, the camaraderie remain timeless, and (the original trilogy at least) will go down in history as cinema greats for the forseeable future.

I understand the comments about Rogue One, but I do think it brought things to the party that we hadn't yet seen in the cinematic universe of movies. The original trilogy of movies were quite clear into who were 'good' and who were 'bad', but the line is much less clear here. You have an Imperial pilot defecting, a Rebel shooting another Rebel in the back so that he isn't captured; hardly groundbreaking moves, but not the kinds of things that we had seen before. And certainly has the most downbeat ending of any SW movie, possibly of any Disney movie.

 

[BAYLOR]

I agree with a number of comments that have been made. The storyline for Star Wars isn't the most original, but the trilogy of movies is an experience. You can't look past the spectacle of Death Stars, Star Destroyers, lightsabre duels and the awesome costumes, because those are what made Star Wars what it is. Nostalgia certainly plays a part, but I'm betting that even today most 7 year old kids who had a chance to go to a cinema to watch Star Wars would leave suitably impressed. The humour, the action, the camaraderie remain timeless, and (the original trilogy at least) will go down in history as cinema greats for the forseeable future.

I understand the comments about Rogue One, but I do think it brought things to the party that we hadn't yet seen in the cinematic universe of movies. The original trilogy of movies were quite clear into who were 'good' and who were 'bad', but the line is much less clear here. You have an Imperial pilot defecting, a Rebel shooting another Rebel in the back so that he isn't captured; hardly groundbreaking moves, but not the kinds of things that we had seen before. And certainly has the most downbeat ending of any SW movie, possibly of any Disney movie.

I wonder if that downbeat ending in Rogue One is going to diminish interest int the Andor prequel series ?

 

[paranoid marvin]

How could the man who felt the need to provide backstory explanations for absolutely every Indy characteristic (whip, hat, jacket, snakes, chin scar, name, etc) write something as silly as CS? Seems like the same bloke to me?

Raiders was so good because Lawrence Kasden wrote it - not Lucas. But the screenplays of Skull and LC are different writers as well. "Story by" is a rough idea.

The thing is that by the time of the fourth movie, you already have everything ironed out. It shouldn't be that difficult to follow the same guidebook as for the first three movies. I don't mind backstory explanations, but one of the great things about the previous movies was the chemistry between the main actors - this is totally lacking in Crystal Skull.

The crazy thing is that Lucas had had a smash hit script in Lucasfilm's Fate of Atlantis. This had an interesting, witty script and was similar in style to the other 3 adventures. All they had to do was transfer that over onto film and they would have had a smash hit.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I wonder if that downbeat ending in Rogue One is going to diminish interest int the Andor prequel series ?

It will be interesting to see. There are many more well known characters that could have had their backstory told, but he seems to be one of the more interesting; one of the more ruthless 'good' characters.

 

[Swank]

It will be interesting to see. There are many more well known characters that could have had their backstory told, but he seems to be one of the more interesting; one of the more ruthless 'good' characters.

Isn't it amazing that Star Wars was even watchable considering that it isn't about anyone's backstory?

 

[KGeo777]

When is Luke ever reluctant?

He tries to talk himself out of going with Obi Wan Kenobi--"besides, it's such a long way from here."

He has no patience with Yoda--his personality really changes. He faces other hard ships before the swamp
and yet he's so angry.
There's a theme at work--the ever-growing toxicity of maleness which clashes with Campbell's hero's journey idea (in Return of the Jedi Luke needs to be saved by his father--there's not many examples of that in classic adventure).
The point of the journey is growing into maturity or experience as a positive thing but in Star Wars it is the reverse--it is a bad thing ultimately.
That's why in the end a woman must be the heroic savior figure--the series is full of that--not just princess Leia but the leader of the rebellion is a woman too.
Terminator did that as well as time went on.
Marvel is doing that too.
Although it is going beyond that now to woman as assassin.
They are so reluctant to show male characters in aggressive behavior that they are making the women into killers and then the excuse is "a man made them do it."
I heard the Obi Wan series did that and Marvel did that where the violence was blamed on some male instigator.
This collection of Star Wars cut scenes has the same idea too-in the first 15 minutes-the girl child who is taken by a man to be raised as a evil warrior. The representation of men in this is interesting to consider.
This must represent several different games so the message is consistent through all of them.

 

[paranoid marvin]

He tries to talk himself out of going with Obi Wan Kenobi--"besides, it's such a long way from here."

He has no patience with Yoda--his personality really changes. He faces other hard ships before the swamp
and yet he's so angry.
There's a theme at work--the ever-growing toxicity of maleness which clashes with Campbell's hero's journey idea (in Return of the Jedi Luke needs to be saved by his father--there's not many examples of that in classic adventure).
The point of the journey is growing into maturity or experience as a positive thing but in Star Wars it is the reverse--it is a bad thing ultimately.
That's why in the end a woman must be the heroic savior figure--the series is full of that--not just princess Leia but the leader of the rebellion is a woman too.
Terminator did that as well as time went on.
Marvel is doing that too.
Although it is going beyond that now to woman as assassin.
They are so reluctant to show male characters in aggressive behavior that they are making the women into killers and then the excuse is "a man made them do it."
I heard the Obi Wan series did that and Marvel did that where the violence was blamed on some male instigator.
This collection of Star Wars cut scenes has the same idea too-in the first 15 minutes-the girl child who is taken by a man to be raised as a evil warrior. The representation of men in this is interesting to consider.
This must represent several different games so the message is consistent through all of them.

In relation Luke, does he need to be rescued by his father, or does he purposely put himself in jeopardy so that his father must choose between himself and the Emperor?

It's interesting that Darth is 'saved' by coming back over from the Dark Side. But I'm not sure that he does. He believes in order and that the Rebel alliance is the enemy of order. That he saves his son's life doesn't change that; it just means that he saves his son's life. He has already told Luke that they can rule the galaxy together, which makes you wonder if he had an intention to kill the Emperor all along and take his place, with Like taking his father's place as the new Emperor's right hand man.

 

[JunkMonkey]

There's a theme at work--the ever-growing toxicity of maleness

Yawn!

 

[Swank]

He tries to talk himself out of going with Obi Wan Kenobi--"besides, it's such a long way from here."

He has no patience with Yoda--his personality really changes. He faces other hard ships before the swamp
and yet he's so angry.
There's a theme at work--the ever-growing toxicity of maleness which clashes with Campbell's hero's journey idea (in Return of the Jedi Luke needs to be saved by his father--there's not many examples of that in classic adventure).
The point of the journey is growing into maturity or experience as a positive thing but in Star Wars it is the reverse--it is a bad thing ultimately.
That's why in the end a woman must be the heroic savior figure--the series is full of that--not just princess Leia but the leader of the rebellion is a woman too.
Terminator did that as well as time went on.
Marvel is doing that too.
Although it is going beyond that now to woman as assassin.
They are so reluctant to show male characters in aggressive behavior that they are making the women into killers and then the excuse is "a man made them do it."
I heard the Obi Wan series did that and Marvel did that where the violence was blamed on some male instigator.
This collection of Star Wars cut scenes has the same idea too-in the first 15 minutes-the girl child who is taken by a man to be raised as a evil warrior. The representation of men in this is interesting to consider.
This must represent several different games so the message is consistent through all of them.

Doesn't that all make my point that Lucas subverted the Hero's Journey?