I am smurfing stuck on Orphan meets a Monster.

[Bramandin]

I don't know if it's just a bad chapter, a bad story, or maybe I'm at the point where I should go Superman-style where they cut from finding the tyke to him being a teenager or later. It's not at a point where it needs polish; I just won't yell if someone feels the need to point out polish-parts.

---

Radley remembered the argument from last night. “They seemed to have that idea, but I’ve been looking after myself.”

“Not well enough,” Kerwin said. “You seem lucky that you haven’t starved to death yet.”

Radley knew better than to get into arguments about luck. “I don’t know why hunters would have me doing women’s work instead of going to a seamstress, but I woulda been fine if I coulda gotten something steady.” He noticed Kerwin’s expression, like someone who was on his way to start hitting. “I didn’t mean to mock. I was told that people do things different in different places and I guess that there’s nothing wrong with a man who sews here.”

Kerwin ran his hand down his face-hair as if trying to smooth it, but it remained fuzzy. “Most of the people in the guild are women, and us men get teased sometimes, but no one actually means anything by it. If we think they did, they’d be walking around in rags. Seamstress has another meaning, a shameful one, and even the women who sew are called tailors.”

Radley nodded. “In Blackrock, married women only sew for their family. There are women that men don’t want to marry but they do those things for unmarried men.”

Kerwin looked at him oddly before inspecting the mend again. “You have a lot to learn, but do you think that you could do this type of work every day?”

“I think I would love that,” Radley said. “The only part I minded about it was getting mocked.”

“I would also have to act as your caregiver. I’d be considered irresponsible if I treated you like a full adult,” Kerwin said. “That means that I would have authority over you as if you were my own.”

Radley didn’t want to say it, but he would not put up with being hit if he didn’t have to. He couldn’t remember what his father and Robern had done beyond making sure he was fed, and wondered if there was anything more than that. “I won’t pretend that you’re my real father.”

“I’m not looking for love, just respect,” Kerwin said.

Radley nodded. “I think I can do that.”

Chapter Break

Radley was brought upstairs to the workroom, and Kerwin spoke with Idony for a moment before introducing him to the others. In addition to Idony, there was another woman was about her age named Sabelea, her young daughter Tamsia, and an old woman named Granny (name) who he was to address as Granny. Radley got to watch them work while Kerwin explained what they were doing. Idony was at the loom and using it seemed so complicated that Radley could hardly believe he’d learn how to do it someday. Sabelea and Granny were spinning and the way the soft tufts turned to thread through their fingers seemed like magic.

“I’d have you learn spinning right away, but the shearing is in a few days and carding is simple enough, so you’ll be doing that when we get the raw wool,” Kerwin said. “For now, you’ll help me get your sleeping-cabinet cleaned out.”

When the cabinet was empty, Kerwin said. “It looks like you’re wearing winter clothes, so I found some things in the used basket that look like they’ll fit you. One of the shirts needs repair, so you’ll be learning how to do it properly.

“Thank you, dom.” Radley was aware of winter because cold drafts came in from outside, but it seemed odd to have clothes that were wrong to wear at other times. He didn’t want to question it because Kerwin might take it as disrespect.

Kerwin asked. “Will you be able to sleep without a mattress for a few days?”

“What’s a mattress?” Radley asked.

“What you sleep on?”

“Bare stone, dom,” Radley said.

Kerwin brushed his face-hair. “So that’s not urgent. Are you also able to get by without shoes?”

“I’ve never worn shoes.” Radley had noticed a few other children on the way here and some of them were barefoot.

“What did you do in winter?” Kerwin asked.

“Only hunters go outside, and never in winter because it’s too cold,” Radley said.

Kerwin frowned. “You have never been outside?”

Radley shook his head. “Not until last night.”

“How did you get here?”

“I think I came here by magic.” Radley had thought carefully about what he would say, and he’d always been interested in elfi-stories about misleading truths. “I wouldn’t have done it if I hadn’t been starving, but I stole food from the Lady’s shrine. Before I knew what was happening, Cobi’s family was helping me.”

Kerwin stared at him. “The Lady?”

“She’s a goddess of luck.”

Kerwin’s expression turned dangerous and he grabbed Radley’s arm. “You’re in league with a goddess? Deities are nothing but trouble and worshipping them is forbidden.”

Radley struggled against his grip. He wished he’d known that Kerwin felt the same way about it that he did. “I hate the Lady. People waste food on her when I needed it more.”

Kerwin asked. “Then why would she help you?”

“I don’t know.” Radley had to fight the urge to start hitting; that always made things worse. “It was that crazy jigan. Cobi didn’t want me to tell anyone.”

Kerwin relaxed his grip but didn’t let go. “If you lie to me again, you will be out on your ear. How did you get here?”

“I did steal food from the Lady’s shrine, though I prefer to get it honestly. I don’t know what Leti was doing in Blackrock, but it sounds like she took me because she was angry that no one was taking care of me,” Radley said. “She said that the Lady was a superstition.”

“Do you believe in the Lady?”

“I don’t know.” Radley really wanted to say that he didn’t, but Kerwin might believe it was a lie. “I didn’t before, but people don’t get the sort of luck that I just got.”

Kerwin let go of him. “You had a run-in with Leti. She’s no goddess but drawing her attention can change the course of someone’s life. Does she know that Jacobi brought you here?”

“It was her idea.” Radley had a bad feeling about telling him that, but there was also a chance he’d be in trouble if he didn’t. “Valmos wanted her to take me back and thought you wouldn’t take me because people only take care of their own.”

“That damned meddling grimalkin,” Kerwin spat. “She’s more of a menace than any wild jigan.”

Radley wanted to say something, but he had no idea what he could without making things worse. Instead he waited uneasily for Kerwin to take the next step.

After a moment, Kerwin tried to smooth his face-hair. “Do you have any other unpleasant surprises for me?”

Radley shook his head. “I don’t think so, dom.”

“Don’t look so glum. I’m not going to kick you out just because of her,” Kerwin said. “She tends to get what she wants because it takes courage to stand up to her. I’m guessing that you didn’t have a choice.”

“Valmos said I could go back if I wanted to,” Radley said. “Can he control her?”

Kerwin snorted. “I doubt that even the sorcerer who made her could. You’re not in league with any enemies of humanity, are you?”

Radley hesitated. What if the truth was the wrong answer? “I don’t think so, dom. Leti didn’t give me a choice about coming here in the first place and I didn’t make any bargains. People in Blackrock hate ticalos.”

“Do not say that word around the elfi, or anyone else for that matter,” Kerwin said. “Some of our myths come from their history and they’re particularly sore about that one. We use the word davol for people who work with or for the jigan.”

Radley wondered about the truth behind those myths. In stories, ticalos were intent on causing harm while davoli were more opportunistic.

 

[sule]

I personally felt there was too much back-and-forth dialogue without enough description or character moments, and it started to feel like a white room, but there wasn't anything inherently bad with the scene. I was lost by the massive amounts of new words thrown at me, but I assume most of those have been explained prior to this point in the story so a reader would not be nearly so lost.

If you want to skip ahead to get to something more interesting, by all means you should. Later, if you find some sliver of inspiration that brings life back to this part of the story for you, then go back and fill in. There's nothing wrong with skipping ahead to the parts that interest you if it lets you keep your momentum (also: if you're writing a scene that bores you, chances are it will bore the reader). The odds are decent that by skipping ahead you'll find what needs fleshing out before the time skip.

Whatever you decide to do, keep writing.

 

[Bramandin]

I personally felt there was too much back-and-forth dialogue without enough description or character moments, and it started to feel like a white room, but there wasn't anything inherently bad with the scene. I was lost by the massive amounts of new words thrown at me, but I assume most of those have been explained prior to this point in the story so a reader would not be nearly so lost.

If you want to skip ahead to get to something more interesting, by all means you should. Later, if you find some sliver of inspiration that brings life back to this part of the story for you, then go back and fill in. There's nothing wrong with skipping ahead to the parts that interest you if it lets you keep your momentum (also: if you're writing a scene that bores you, chances are it will bore the reader). The odds are decent that by skipping ahead you'll find what needs fleshing out before the time skip.

Whatever you decide to do, keep writing.

Ticalos and davol would be the words I hadn't introduced earlier. I think I actually cut my attempts to describe the sleeping cabinets and the process of cleaning them out. I'll try to remember that scenes need a bit of description.

I probably should time-skip this. The story so far feels like a prologue and using the story-circle method it feels like he's now at step one. (Place of comfort doesn't have to be comfortable, but there isn't much conflict or character desire until he gets used to his new normal.)

 

[MaxRelaxman]

I personally felt there was too much back-and-forth dialogue without enough description or character moments, and it started to feel like a white room, but there wasn't anything inherently bad with the scene. I was lost by the massive amounts of new words thrown at me, but I assume most of those have been explained prior to this point in the story so a reader would not be nearly so lost.

<SNIP>

Along the lines of what Sule said, I'm wondering if since they're in a workroom you could have them interact with the props. Those workroom things are just hanging around doing nothing when they should be earning their keep and helping you to spice up your story. Like pick up a pair of scissors or maybe examine some material while the characters interact with each other. Nothing crazy, just enough to add some movement.

 

[Bramandin]

Along the lines of what Sule said, I'm wondering if since they're in a workroom you could have them interact with the props. Those workroom things are just hanging around doing nothing when they should be earning their keep and helping you to spice up your story. Like pick up a pair of scissors or maybe examine some material while the characters interact with each other. Nothing crazy, just enough to add some movement.

I removed them going to another room and describing anything about cleaning out the sleeping-cabinet because it was really boring. However, I'm not sure about having them do other things while talking. I was taught that it was rude to not stop what you were doing if possible and give your undivided attention to someone, even if it's something like knitting that doesn't take much focus. Then again, films have the driver making eye-contact with the passenger when that's unrealistic. Is this a case of breaking reality for the sake of story?

 

[Brian G Turner]

I think you could help with more focus on POV - at the moment you're not giving us the POV character experience, but simply treating the POV character as a camera to "look" at things rather than a way to "experience" a situation. The result is that everything is dialogue punctuated by physical actions that we watch, all of it leaving the reader feeling distant and remote from the story and therefore not very engaged. Learn to write how things feel to your character.

 

[Bramandin]

I think you could help with more focus on POV - at the moment you're not giving us the POV character experience, but simply treating the POV character as a camera to "look" at things rather than a way to "experience" a situation. The result is that everything is dialogue punctuated by physical actions that we watch, all of it leaving the reader feeling distant and remote from the story and therefore not very engaged. Learn to write how things feel to your character.

So if I were to keep this scene, or write a similar scene, I'd need to give him something to fidget with instead of having him metaphorically sitting on his hands? Or is it his emotional passivity? Perhaps any scene where he has no unmet wants is going to be flat, and I should skip those?

 

[Brian G Turner]

There's no emotion in this at all, no perspective from the character. You need to get close emotionally and ideally construct the scene around internal conflict. A couple of great books on writing that explain all the technical stuff you need to know are Save the Cat by Blake snyder and Wonderbook by Jeff Vandermeer.

 

[Bramandin]

There's no emotion in this at all, no perspective from the character. You need to get close emotionally and ideally construct the scene around internal conflict. A couple of great books on writing that explain all the technical stuff you need to know are Save the Cat by Blake snyder and Wonderbook by Jeff Vandermeer.

I have Wonderbook, though I'm having trouble getting through it because of the purple prose. I think I stopped in the middle of a dialogue part. Also, I'm not sure about what people mean by emotion. I keep translating it as having to tell people what a character is feeling because readers are too stupid to work it out, but I don't know if I've ever seen an example of that.

"Will the children and I have a guide?" Rosethorn asked. She bit another bun. This was very spicy meat. She ate it dully.

Rosethorn was resigned because her superior just told her to stop arguing.

Dokyi shook his head. "No. The fewer people who know of this, the better. Briar and Evumeimei must remain behind."
That pierced the fog in her brain. She sat straight. "Dokyi, no. They're my charges."

Is she angry? Offended by him going against her sensibilities? Is there an emotion connected to going mama-bear?


I looked at my sample again, and it literally said that Radley had a bad feeling. I'm also trying to limit myself to words that he would know and use when I can, and I don't know what he would use for fawning. Oh, I was mixing up freezing and fawning because shutting up and accepting punishment for things I didn't do was the desired response. I'm not sure those are actually emotions and how emotions really work for normal people. In another story, the character with CPTSD is described as having a clockwork logic that makes it seem like she has stronger emotions than she actually feels.

I need to read the CPTSD subreddit more, but I came across this...

For many people with CPTSD, anger can be scary. To us, anger in any form, even the slightest irritation, means danger, it means abuse. {...} Feeling angry yourself will come with immediate guilt and fear of further abuse if found out. Anger = danger. That connection is very difficult to get out of a traumatized brain.

I wrote hints that Radley is capable of fight, but mostly he's shown freeze or fawn behaviors. Even if I decide that Radley is varying degrees of scared all of the time with microsecond flashes of anger, how often would his emotions need to be expressed?

How would you rewrite a section of my story? Maybe an example would help.

 

[JS Wiig]

Very simplistically, when someone is angry they tend to see things around them in a negative light vs when they are happy, they see things in a more positive light. The words you choose can reflect this and impart that emotion into the prose, allowing the reader to experience the character rather than reading about them.

Likely horrid examples to follow:

Angry

Cloey sat on the beach, gritty sand permeating every nook and cranny of her body, grating like sand paper with every move. Crashing waves pounded in her head, like that annoying construction jackhammer that woke her up about two hours too early. She squinted into the sun to see who was coming, but gave up when her eyelids refused to open into the burning glare.

“Margarita?” her friend asked.

She snatched the drink and took a deep swig, choking down the bitter fluid.

Happy

Cloey sat on the beach and dug her toes into the soothing sand, giggling as the grains tickled her feet. A pulsing of waves aligned her with the beat of nature as she relaxed on her elbows, thankful for a respite from the construction at her apartment. Warm sunlight caressed her face, and she laid her head back to bask in brilliant rays, barely aware of an approaching figure.

“Margarita?” her friend asked.

“Oh thank you, my dear,” she said, accepting the drink and taking a refreshing sip of the beautiful, sweet elixir.

 

[Bramandin]

Very simplistically, when someone is angry they tend to see things around them in a negative light vs when they are happy, they see things in a more positive light. The words you choose can reflect this and impart that emotion into the prose, allowing the reader to experience the character rather than reading about them.

A person can view the same things that differently depending on their mood? No wonder neurotypicals are so hard to figure out. Before we create a ruleset, we have to figure out what mood the NT is in... not that it will help those of us that can't look at someone's face long enough to see if they're frowning or smiling.

Back to seriousness, I am a bit confused because I thought I was giving some hint that Radley was cautious/worried/wary/trepid but trying not to look that way. If anything, it looks like I should lean more into Radley paying attention to Kerwin's every potentially-significant movement to the exclusion of noticing his own itches.

Is it impossible to tell a compelling story in close-third when the character has alexithymia, trauma, or just has other traits that would make them look like a robot, Vulcan, or flat character? If I absolutely need to emotionally ground my character, maybe I could bribe someone to be a helper. I can't bribe my mom with chocolate or chores because she gets nauseous whenever she tries to do something she's not already good at and might be judged for. Too bad helper AI aren't a thing yet.

 

[gOff2fish]

Hi, I'm new here and still learning the protocols, so please forgive me if I am indelicate or unskillful in anyway.

In response to a comment in your first post in this thread, "I don't know if this is just a bad chapter..." I think the core question is "does the chapter communicate what you want it to communicate. As for myself, when I am writing I tend to lose myself in the narrative and I'm just watching it unfold and I'm trying to write down meaningful and significant notations. It is often an instinctual process, and I'm not actually "looking where I'm going". Especially as I'm writing the first draft, I don't necessarily know what the Function of that section or chapter is, but I can feel it. If I can go back and look at it again, with fresh eyes, I can sometimes (not always) identify the Function, the Idea, or Message and rework to emphasize or clarify the meaning, so the writing serves the story.
I read through your chapter several times, making notes along the way. I will simply distill my observations here. ( I can post the text with my notes if you would find that valuable).
The information communicated in this chapter that I feel is or may be significant to the narrative as a whole is something like this:

-Radley is our Protagonist. Although our POV is third-person objective, the reader is privileged to a limited glimpse into Radley's Interior Life; we are able to observe some of his thoughts and personal observations; on several occassions the reader knows what Radley wants to say but chooses not to.

-Radley is an Outsider, a Stranger in a Strange Land. He has already been exposed to Cultural Differences that potentially offer an opportunity to examine his own assumptions, the limitations of his worldly experience, and the restraints of his enculturation. I would expect this aspect of Radley's "conflict" to play a significant role later in the narrative. Radley must find his place in this new context, even while he is learning the customs and mores. There is subtle indication that Radley had not" found his place" in his homeland.

-The relationship between Radley and Kerwin is new, and they are in the process of negotiating that dynamic, defining hierarchies and boundaries. The reader will probably make assumptions about tensions in that dynamic based on the fact that they are both male; we (as reader) bring our encultured baggage with us. Radley is being introduced to a labor based sub-culture, a Guild, offered lodging, and a place of belonging, if he can abide by rules of conduct and hierarchy.

-Radley has had some kind of 'encounter' with a Goddess of Luck, the Lady, and her local sub-culture. Kerwin is upset by this and expresses vocal distrust and disdain of this and any diety, implying that there is internal conflict and complexity in this new Society that Radley will need to understand and navigate.

-Radley appears to have been abducted or stolen away from his home. It is unclear if this was against his will, or if he has any strong desire to return. There are implications that Radley's homelife was less than satisfactory.

-There is mention of 'magic' and 'a sorcerer' suggesting this a 'fantasy' world, although we witness nothing fantastic in this passage. The last paragraph or two introduces a handful of exotic words, names for things in alien language, reinforcing the otherness of our setting.

-Several more characters are named and a tangled web of inter-personal dynamics, potential struggle for power is hinted at, suggesting our Protagonist will have to choose his alliances carefully.

Reading, some of your later posts, it appears that you are trying to depict Radley as a victim of trauma or as neuro-atypical. I do not get that sense at all. I feel that there is great potential for building tension in the personal dynamics, but instead it just feels bland, almost lifeless. Kerwin gets upset about something and grabs Radley, but as the reader I never feel the threat of Kerwin, you describe him as dangerous, but I don't feel that danger. It is certainly an interesting project to describe a protagonist that has difficulty expressing or communicating emotion; certainly part of the challenge is creating a character that the reader empathizes with, and cares enough about to continue reading. Television writers and screenwriters can get away with writing flat characters because there is enough visual stimulation to keep the audience interested. Not so with the written word. You don't want to alienate your reader (you NEED your reader; a writer is nothing without a reader), or leave them out in the cold or in the dark. Most of the time, you want to make your reader feel comfortable and welcome.

So I think you have some decisions to make;
-What exactly is your point of view? Is it limited to Radley's perspective? Kerwin, I would imagine, is emotionally/socially functional; if we can contrast/compare Kerwin expressing emotion to Radley stoicism, it could serve to highlight that characteristic in your Protagonist. If, however, we have a more omniscient narrator and you describe Kerwin's observations of Radley's difficulty/awkwardness then the reader would be offered a clearer picture of the dynamic. Or, you provide a fuller account of Radley's inner dialogue.
-What exactly is Radley's struggle? Is it trauma based or is it neuro-atypical? Because these two, even from my limited experience and understanding, would present very differently. If its both situations stacked; I wouldn't even know where to begin to tackle such a character and I, personally, would choose a simpler project.

I know this has been spoken to in other comments in this thread but there's very, very little visual description. I cannot visualize the characters: they are just humanoid shaped figures with names; a few of them talk. I cannot visualize where they are, or how they postition themselves in relation to one another. Body Language and posture can represent tension and dynamic in a very powerful way. In the opening scene, for example it would make a huge difference to visualize Radley and Kerwin standing face to face in a poorly industrial corridor, the younger man with his arms folded tightly across his chest, while Kerwin, standing several heads taller looks down upon the youth with his hands on his hips, as opposed to the two of them sitting side by side on an unmade bed, or speaking across the breakfast table leaning on their elbows. You offer at least 3 distinct settings; where ever they start out, the upstairs workshop, and the sleeping cabinets: the reader doesn't get to see any of those spaces. I imagine you can see the setting in your head, and to a certain degree you maybe take it for granted. But you are taking for granted that your reader can see it too.

I am going to have a hard time empathizing and identifying with a Protagonist if I can't position him/her in space and time. The White Room, I think someone labelled it; we are just moving from one White Room to another White Room, with very little to hold onto. I don't know who any of the other Characters are that are mentioned in conversation, so I can't make any sense of the complex dynamics that are implied. This should be a moment of tension, "Oh no! All these Power Dynamics! This could be a volatile situation, with shifting and unstable alliances. I'd better keep alert, trust no one..." At the same time you bring in the names of Characters that are (at least for the present) marginal you introduce the handful of exotic terms mentioned before. Without defining any of these terms the reader is again left in the dark, alienated and unknowing. A statement like "The darn *kwesitz* is worse than a wild *hoomajid*", may add a splash of alien color, but doesn't actually communicate anything. Further when all of your exotic words carry the same value (they're all insulting names you might call a person, for example, or they are all alien animals of some kind, it and doesn't actually add dimension to your world; rather it feels like you've placed some exotic accessories around your empty setting. They stand as symbols of 'otherness' or 'strangeness', instead of actually taking us to the experience of a strange new world. By the end of that last little passage, I feel left-behind and don't really care what happens further. If I were reading this in a book I wouldn't continue, because it doesn't feel like the author/storyteller cares enough about me, the reader, to make sure I understand.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with explaining and defining the strange new alien discoveries you introduce. It could be right there in the dialogue "'He's no better than a three-legged razorback wharf rat, a *Wartleklaum*' ", or framed as your Protagonist's Interior Dialogue. "So, even in Blackbottom, the *whoositzs*, the savage mercenaries of the hinterlands, were feared and reviled." And its not forbidden to recount important or pertinent events from previous chapters; in other words its okay to repeat information you may have described earlier, especially if it facilitates understanding and emphasis in your reader. Our minds repeat and replay information all the time. Your chapter starts out with Radley remembering the argument from the night before. But your chapter goes on to make reference to events and situations that I (for instance) missed because I haven't read prior chapters. This makes it difficult to track the dialogue. Although you are not writing this with the intention that it stands alone, you can only reinforce and support the trust of your reader if you do give it the structure to stand alone. Your reader is not perfect; your reader will forget things they have already read, maybe even overlook important details.
As the Writer you are the God of this world and you can show us what ever you want us to see. If its something important, you can show us again and again and again, to make sure we get it.
I hope that you find my observations constructive. And I am excited to see what develops.

 

[JS Wiig]

A person can view the same things that differently depending on their mood?

It’s not as much about what really happens in a real person’s brain, as it is about portraying it in your writing in a way that makes it subtly clear what emotional state your character is in.

It’s a story, after all, not a psychoanalytical discourse. Our job as writers is to make the reader experience something different than what they would be experiencing without reading. Sometimes you have to exaggerate things a bit to get them there.

 

[Bramandin]

So I think you have some decisions to make;
-What exactly is your point of view? Is it limited to Radley's perspective? Kerwin, I would imagine, is emotionally/socially functional; if we can contrast/compare Kerwin expressing emotion to Radley stoicism, it could serve to highlight that characteristic in your Protagonist. If, however, we have a more omniscient narrator and you describe Kerwin's observations of Radley's difficulty/awkwardness then the reader would be offered a clearer picture of the dynamic. Or, you provide a fuller account of Radley's inner dialogue.
-What exactly is Radley's struggle? Is it trauma based or is it neuro-atypical? Because these two, even from my limited experience and understanding, would present very differently. If its both situations stacked; I wouldn't even know where to begin to tackle such a character and I, personally, would choose a simpler project.

Hello and welcome. There's a lot of good stuff to go through, so I'm not going to try to get through it all at once.

I'm wanting to write this close third on Radley since that's the current fashion. I think I want to stay out of Kerwin's viewpoint; it might be silly to have Radley be so afraid when Kerwin is afraid of him, or will be once he learns that Radley got mixed up with the wolfman. I also wanted to limit Radley's neuroatypicality to just the trauma, but he might have a few autistic traits because neurotypicals are a bit alien to me. Because of the way this world is, writing a neurodivergent without trauma would actually be more difficult.

This scene might be trying to do too much, if that makes sense. Maybe I should limit it to describing Radley's new home, have him meet the other people who are present, and save telling the others how he got there and the bad reaction for the next scene. I'm also concerned about having him meet too many new people at once. In addition to Kerwin and his wife Idony, there's Sabelea, her daughter Tamsia, Granny, and then Shepard and Shepardson are out in the field until evening. That's a bit why I wanted to do a generic scene that was only a character study, to work out whether there's a mechanical problem separate from the scene..

 

[tinkerdan]

I have Wonderbook, though I'm having trouble getting through it because of the purple prose. I think I stopped in the middle of a dialogue part. Also, I'm not sure about what people mean by emotion. I keep translating it as having to tell people what a character is feeling because readers are too stupid to work it out, but I don't know if I've ever seen an example of that.

If you are really having problems with figuring out what is meant when someone says your characters seem to have no emotion....
You might benefit from this book.

The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writer's Guide to Character Expression (Second Edition) (Writers Helping Writers Series): Puglisi, Becca, Ackerman, Angela: 9780999296349: Amazon.com: Books

The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writer's Guide to Character Expression (Second Edition) (Writers Helping Writers Series) [Puglisi, Becca, Ackerman, Angela] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writer's Guide to Character Expression (Second Edition) (Writers...

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The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writer's Guide to Character Expression (Second Edition): 1 (Writers Helping Writers Series): Amazon.co.uk: Puglisi, Becca, Ackerman, Angela: 9780999296349: Books

Buy The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writer's Guide to Character Expression (Second Edition): 1 (Writers Helping Writers Series) 2nd ed. by Puglisi, Becca, Ackerman, Angela (ISBN: 9780999296349) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

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It's basically listing body language cues and the sense cues in relationship to various emotive states. Character expression is much more than saying the character is angry, frightened, frustrated, etc... Much more than having the character declare in dialogue or narrative that they are in any of those states. You want to show more than tell although in some occasions its alright to tell; however, too much telling will probably make the reader feel as stupid as some might think they are. It's less a matter of the reader being too stupid and more a matter of them deciding that the author is too lazy in their writing.

The only issue I have with The Emotion Thesaurus is that it is woefully inadequate in that the listing is narrow when emotional expression is such a wide subject; however, when you can't find the emotion you want you should be able to extrapolate after studying the ones that they have.

 

[Bramandin]

If you are really having problems with figuring out what is meant when someone says your characters seem to have no emotion....
You might benefit from this book.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm still not sure I understand. I found a Sample.

• holding back a scream or cry
• the sudden urge to flee

So was Radley had to fight the urge to start hitting; that always made things worse. Just not doing it enough, or was I doing it wrong?

From what I can glean, I'm limited to his thoughts and observations about his bodily reactions because he's usually not showing his emotions when he's afraid it will make the man mad. I think I might be able to talk about his facial expression if he's consciously deciding to frown or smile. Radley blinked placidly at the insult and hoped that the scruffy-looking nerf-herder would die in his sleep. Something like that?

 

[JS Wiig]

@Bramandin I started a thread in the workshop for showing character emotion. Hopefully we can get some ideas flowing on various ways to accomplish that. Give it a try if you’re interested!

 

[tinkerdan]

So was Radley had to fight the urge to start hitting; that always made things worse. Just not doing it enough, or was I doing it wrong?Your

Your example here seems to be anger.
Whereas the cues you took from the book sample are probably fear.
Since they don't mix it makes it difficult to parse your actual problem

Radley had to fight the urge to start hitting--is not all that bad.
In fact in the book it uses hitting things as a physical sign of anger.

Suppressed anger could be expressed the way you do it though there are other subtle ways.

Radley slowed his breaths and tried to unclenched his fists, anger would only make things worse; though, this would give him a headache.

I took a number of things from the anger part of the thesaurus under the heading suppressed anger.

Radley ground his teeth, his face began to flush and he forced his breathing to slow as he moved his fist behind him and slowly unclenched them, anger would only make things worse.

Here I took from internal signs of anger and then went to the suppression of anger.

Both of these utilize a close POV from the character internally.

If your POV is not close then the example you use could be used for external POV along with several other cues for the external showing of emotions. Or if the POV is trying to determine another characters emotions from their body language.

 

[Bramandin]

In fact in the book it uses hitting things as a physical sign of anger.

Okay, I guess this is a sign that I'm miswired because I thought that hitting could also be linked to fear. Like if a horse kicks its handler, I thought it was because the horse went into panic mode. I've never had this problem, but I thought when a woman strikes an attacker, it's out of fear.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Emotions are complex, and sometimes what an action means depends on the context and the disposition of the person or animal being described. (Also, hitting inanimate objects can be different from hitting a person or animal. If I slam my hand into the door, it is probably because I am frustrated—maybe I had a bad day at the office—and I know the door won't feel it, though it may need to be repaired. If I slam my hand into a helpless infant, then there needs to be a bigger reason than a bad day at work to explain such cruelty (explain, not excuse, because of course it is indefensible), because I know the infant does feel it, is fragile, and I may seriously injure it.)

I am not an expert on horses, so I won't comment on what a horse might do and why, except to say that I wouldn't interpret human reactions based on horse reactions, because the two species are wired differently. But as for humans, if a woman strikes an attacker, it could be fear, but it could also be instinctive self-defense, and anger could come later when she has a moment to think about what just happened.

If you use a book like The Emotion Thesaurus, it should be to spark ideas when you are not sure how to describe something, not as the final authority on human emotions.