Anyone With Any Experience of Solar Panels?

mosaix

Shropshire, U.K.
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What with the looming energy price increases we're considering solar panels.

Various reports say that 'we won't get our money back for a long time'. However, I get next to no return on my savings but the return in terms of reduced electricity chartges could make it worthwhile.
 
I'm in Australia, so it's a no brainer to get them, but I love my solar panels. You should be able to find a UK-centric calculator that can tell you how effective they would be for you. Something like this: Solar energy calculator
 
I have solar panels since February 2016. 20 panels of 160Wp each, 1 Solaredge converter allowing up to 10 strings of panels. 0 regrets. The expectations are still what they were 6 years ago, that I will have 'earned´ my money back within 7 years of purchase.
Of course, much depends on your local (national) regulations, whether there are legal benefits or subsidies to promote the purchase of solar panels.
The 'problem' with solar panels is that they produce the most on those moments you need it less (unless you have airco's installed in every room). On dark days in winter, when your usage of energy is high, the panels produce very little so you still have to buy energy for the current high prices. When you produce more that you are using, you deliver energy to the common net, for which you will get a price. That price will determine the earn-back expectations. (in the Netherlands we [still] have a balancing of produced and used energy per year first before the yearly invoice is drawn up.)
There is also the sustainability to consider. You produce clean energy.
You could add batteries to your system, but they are still expensive. An alternative is to use the battery of your e-car to store energy, if you have one.
 
I've always liked
there is a lot of information there on people testing solar items and actually putting their data up. With solar hot water it is largely DIY, with solar PVless so - as in you can't DIY the electronic parts of a solar panel...... Still lots of good things to see and literally tried and tested information.
 
The bet with Solar Panels is this:
When you install the system you are betting that electrical prices will go up in the future.

Assuming you manage your financing correctly then you are paying a set fee for electrical production for a set duration, then a fraction of that cost into the foreseeable future. Everyone I know that has installed solar panels have had only great things to say about their decision.

The only caveat is that the two people I know that sold their houses were asked to pay off their solar as a condition of the sale and the pay-off was less smooth than a typical mortgage but went through in a couple weeks anyway. (Instead of in a day)
 
@Cthulhu.Science You are talking solar PV there. Solar hot water is also there and solar hot air heating too - lots of interesting things on BuildItSolar. The emphasis in the UK is always towards electricity generation, rather than saving by insulation and heating water by alternative means. There is some work on insulation, but not as much as on electricity generation.
 
Assuming you manage your financing correctly then you are paying a set fee for electrical production for a set duration, then a fraction of that cost into the foreseeable future.
I don't follow. You must pay a fee for the electricity you produce with your solar panels? And pay some more when you sell your house with panels?
 
I don't follow. You must pay a fee for the electricity you produce with your solar panels? And pay some more when you sell your house with panels?

Sorry, poorly written.
In general, Solar financing companies do a cost/benefit analysis.
1. How much electricity you use and what you pay for it. (On an annual basis)
2. There are a lot of different laws regarding how excess electrical production by you is compensated to you by the utility. Some areas have a straight kWh exchange. Each extra kWh produced by you is banked at the utility to use when you need. Other areas have a valuation system so that excess produced during the day is banked at "day rate" and if need electricity later you pay "evening or night rate". And there are many, many variations on this.
3. In general, Solar companies will design a system that produces 100% (depending on jurisdiction up to 120%) of your current need. Note that this system design will vary based on local laws, but your local installer will know local laws. (California and Texas have different rules. I'm not certain if every state in Australia is different from each other, but they are different from both California and Texas. And so on)
4. The Solar installer will evaluate the total installed cost of the optimized system.
5. Systems are generally financed at 7 years. Ideally, the monthly payment for this installed system, will be less than your annual average monthly electric bill. (total electric for the year divided by 12).
4a. Solar companies target consumers for whom the system payment will be less than their current electricity costs.
4b. There are more solar companies in areas where the laws in place make it likely to be true.

5. So, in a typical installation,
5a. Short term your total cost for electricity (including system costs) will go down. Generally you will then be making two payments.
5a1. Payment to the solar company for the finance costs.
5a2. A connection fee to the utility based on very specific requirements of the laws where you live. (California, Texas, New South Wales, etc.)
5b. Long term, after 7 years your total cost for electricity will drop dramatically as you no longer make system payments, though you'll still be making the utility connection fees.

The bet is that Consumer Electrical prices will not drop in the near and long term. --- This is a form of sarcastic cynicism since I, for one, believe electricity prices will continue to go up into the foreseeable future.

Second Part.
If you finance your solar panels for 7 years and sell your house after 4 years then either:
1. The buyer must take over the remaining 3 years of the loan. --- This is unlikely if the buyer purchases your house with a mortgage because this would give the solar company, not the new mortgage company priority lien.
2. You pay off the remaining 3 years of the loan prior to the close of the sale.
__I know two people that sold their homes prior to the end of their solar finance term and paid off the remaining loan on their solar system prior to the close of the property sale. Completing the pay off was more complicated and annoying for each of them than paying off other loans. For some reason the escrow company was either unwilling or unable to manage this payoff.
__If you finance the system through a bank mortgage (2nd mortgage, HELOC, etc.) then you'd pay off the system at the time of the sale as well. In the US, however, bank mortgages of all types are paid off through the escrow company managing the sale.

Good luck everyone!
 
@Cthulhu.Science You are talking solar PV there. Solar hot water is also there and solar hot air heating too - lots of interesting things on BuildItSolar. The emphasis in the UK is always towards electricity generation, rather than saving by insulation and heating water by alternative means. There is some work on insulation, but not as much as on electricity generation.
Solar water heating is a huge energy savings (or transfer to the sun) and an enormous money saver particularly for people with electric water heaters. For example, the state of Hawaii does not have a natural gas system and very limited propane service. Basically all homes are all electric.

My friend there saved half of their electric bill going with solar water heating.
 
@Cthulhu.Science You are talking solar PV there. Solar hot water is also there and solar hot air heating too - lots of interesting things on BuildItSolar. The emphasis in the UK is always towards electricity generation, rather than saving by insulation and heating water by alternative means. There is some work on insulation, but not as much as on electricity generation.
I've watched a lot of remodeling and construction shows from England. I am always startled by the lack of insulation in newly built houses. Exterior walls that are straight brick with plaster render. Unreinforced brick at that.

I guess that construction has worked since the Roman occupation, so why improve on something that works, right?
 
I've watched a lot of remodeling and construction shows from England. I am always startled by the lack of insulation in newly built houses. Exterior walls that are straight brick with plaster render. Unreinforced brick at that.

I guess that construction has worked since the Roman occupation, so why improve on something that works, right?
Our house is being completely refurbished after a fire and where originally the late victorians plastered straight onto the brick wall the walls have now got a layer of insulation then plaster board and then plaster.
 
Solar water heating is a huge energy savings (or transfer to the sun) and an enormous money saver particularly for people with electric water heaters. For example, the state of Hawaii does not have a natural gas system and very limited propane service. Basically all homes are all electric.

My friend there saved half of their electric bill going with solar water heating.
Thank you for the expanded explanation! Fascinating and, not surprising, completely different from where I live (Netherlands.) Though some of the issues are familiar.
 
Here are my latest thoughts.

My house was built pre 1850 and the insulation was non-existent when we bought it. I have dry lined a lot of the rooms with foam backed plaster board but it is still expensive heat. There are no south facing windows so we do not benefit from solar gain. Due to the age of the house the windows are smaller than modern standards would dictate and so we use more electric lighting than otherwise.

We have gas central heating that also heats a hot water tank.

Recently, in the U.K., two things have happened that made me consider solar PV. First, value added tax was removed from solar PV installations, reducing the cost by twenty percent. Second, the price of gas and electricity has rocketed. Energy prices will probably reduce and stabilise in the coming months but I suspect that the long term trend is upwards - ispecially over the guaranteed life of the PV system - 10 years.

I live in a conservation area and that limits the roof space that can accommodate the panels and thereby the amount of electricity that the system can generate. This means that there will be little excess electricity to sell back to the grid and this also means that having a storage battery will not be useful. A battery almost doubles the price of the system anyway. On the other hand it means that we will almost certainly use all the electricity that we generate. Any excess can be used to heat our hot water tank and reduce our gas bill.

Finance. The payback time for the quoted system is about ten years at current electricity and gas prices. Of course any increase will reduce the payback period. Coupled with that the interest on my savings is negligible* so I think it’s put to better use reducing my power bills.

*Interest rates have recently increased slightly but I suspect this will be short lived, unlike energy costs that I expect to carry on increasing.

So I will probably go ahead. If only I could! The VAT reduction about a year ago had triggered a rush for solar PV.** The estimate I asked for last March arrived last week! They now want to do a survey but are dragging their feet over it. Maybe by this time next year I may have a system installed...

**If anyone is looking for a business opportunity I suspect solar PV has a promising future.
 
I have solar panels. I got them in 2009. It is a 4KW system, grid tied. (I don't think anyone has mentioned off grid options - that's for the Preppers)

Anyway, we were lucky to find a reasonably large house, and there's still lot's of room on the roof. It cost me about $9K US. It has saved us between $700/yr and $900/yr US. PV panels will last at least 20 years so it pays for itself after about 12 years. We should have gotten a 5 KW system. It would have paid off sooner even with initial costs. If you produce more power than you need, it goes back to the grid, and the electric company pays you back by deducting from your bill (requires a "smart" meter).

But now, at least in Colorado, The Utility company teams up with solar companies to help pay for it, so it's much more affordable now. Plus we have big government rebates.
 

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