Boaz
Happy Easter!
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Messages
- 6,589
George's favorite comic heroes were the Fantastic Four. Reed Richards, aka Mister Fantastic, is a brilliant inventor and manipulator of technology who uses his brain more than his super stretching ability. Benjamin Grimm, aka The Thing, is a top notch pilot, capable of taking people beyond the borders of the world, that is until the gamma rays gave him a monstrous appearance that separated him from society. Susan Storm, aka the Invisible Girl (later changed to Invisible Woman), is a stalwart defender of justice and can move unseen to aid her allies. Johnny Storm, aka, The Human Torch, is Sue's teen-age brother with a teen boy's love of girls and fast cars... of course he can turn into flame and fly.
Alright, Boaz. Get on with it.
Did you know that GRRM's first published writing was a letter to the Marvel Comics creative team of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee. He wrote a letter regarding the Fantastic Four #17 (August 1963) that was published in Fantastic Four #20 (November 1963). George's date of birth is September 20, 1948... so he probably wrote this letter just before his fifteenth birthday.
His second published writing came two years later in another letter to Marvel. This second letter was in response to Fantastic Four #32 and Avengers #9. The teenage GRRM thought Avengers #9 was the single greatest thing he'd read up to that point.... and he wanted to bronze it and put in his parents living room. What made this issue so great? Well, a team of supervillains created Wonder Man and turned him loose on the world... the Avengers stopped this scheme and Wonder Man died. Martin was thrilled that an enigmatic character was tricked to follow villains and then turned on them and sacrificed his own life to defeat them.
GRRM also had comments upon the Ant Man movie a few years back. Ant Man, aka Hank Pym, was one of his favorite characters, even though he was mostly looked down upon <cough> by most marvel fans. Martin said he read through all the iterations of Hank Pym... Ant Man, Giant Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, and even Hank Pym, Scientific Adventurer!
Boaz, this is all interesting, but I've heard it before. Do you have a point to make?
So... as I've been thinking about how to prove Eddard is actually Jon's father, I came up with a number of scenarios putting Eddard and Ashara together. One of these scenarios has Jon born in the Stormlands. I'll tell you now that I find this idea very implausible, but it did make me think about Jon's name.
So what? We already know Jon Snow is presumably named for Jon Arryn and the northern *******'s name. Snow helps to make the song of Ice and Fire. Duh!
But if Jon was born in the Stormlands, his name should be Jon Storm. John Storm. Johnny Storm. The Human Torch. A man of fire. A flying fire-shooting man!
So what about Jon's parents?
Forget about Jon's stupid parents! Just think about the Marvel Comics connections to A Song of Ice and Fire...
Johnny Storm is similar to a dragon. In AFFC, Quaithe tells Dany, "Dragons are fire made flesh." And Quaithe is hard to see, hard to find... like she's an invisible woman.
But Boaz, Quaithe is not a FF name!
Correct, but Benjamin is.
There's no Benjamin in ASOIAF!
Correct, but there's a Benjen. And if Benjen is Coldhands, then that means he was a ranger (always piloting a horse or elk) who went so far beyond the Wall that his body suffered irreparable damage and he was not able to return to society because of his monstrous appearance. Does that not sound like The Thing?
Okay. But what about Reed Richards?
Well... Howland Reed uses his wiles, not his physical powers to overcome obstacles. Howland seems to have special knowledge that no one else does. His secret base, uh I meant castle, moves around.
Iffy.
We know that GRRM was also a big fan of the early Avengers. Their armored financial backer and sometime leader was named Stark. And his favorite comic (Avengers #9), until he was about seventeen years old, featured the big suprise death of a wonderful character. Before that, his favorite story (FF #17) featured the return of Doctor Doom... a steel encased and enigmatic tyrant of an ancient european country.
You're seeing shadows, Boaz.
Johnny Storm is fire. Bobby Drake is ice.
Who's Bobby Drake?
He's Iceman of the X-Men. And Drake is another word for dragon... and Robert happens to be the name used for Robert Baratheon, Robb Stark, and Robert 'Sweetrobin' Arryn. After Eddard's death, Robb wants Ice.
So you've jumped from FF and Avengers to X-Men?
The original X-Men (during GRRM's teen age years) consisted of Bobby Drake, Warren Worthington, Jean Grey, Scott Summers, and Hank McCoy. And they were led by Professor Xavier, a powerful telepathic paraplegic. Professor X used Cerebro, a mighty computer to enhance his telepathic search across the planet for other mutants. He could not walk himself, but when he needed to take action he'd send out Cyclops to lead his team of mutants. Let me spell this out... Bloodraven is bound to a powerful world wide network that he uses to search for greenseers and wargs. (Currently we use the term genetics, but in medieval society they speak of blood lines.) Bran, a paraplegic, is now connected to the weirwood network (Cerebro) to search for others or to spot problems so that they can be fixed. While Bran cannot walk, he uses Summer (his direwolf) to save Jon from the Thenns and defend his traveling party. More recently, Bran has used Hodor, a veritible giant of a man, to accomplish physical tasks. Professor X is also a cripple... so he sends out Cyclops. In Greek mythology, Cyclops are giants. In the X-Men, Cyclops is actually Scott Summers. Summer is Bran's proxy. Summers is Xavier's proxy.
Jean Grey, aka Marvel Girl, aka Phoenix, aka Dark Phoenix, is a powerful mutant with telkinesis and telepathy. She has red hair. Sounds like Melisandre to me. At the end of the Dark Phoenix saga, she destoyed an entire planet. (On a side note, the actress who portrayed Sansa Stark in the HBO series, Sophie Turner, also played Jean Grey/Phoenix in the X-Men movies. And on a second side note, Famke Janssen played Phoenix/Dark Phoenix... and Sean Bean's lover in Goldeneye.) As for me, the name Jean Grey has always evoked Jane Grey, the nine day Queen of England. Due to the Hellfire Club's interference, Jean Grey entered into a hallucination of herself as a noble woman during the Renaissance/Age of Reason.
The Beast, aka Hank McCoy, was orginally a brute, but Marvel quickly recast him as a scientist with super athletic abilities. He later permanently warged into a furry, almost wolf-like character. And you know what? Wonder Man was subsequently brought back to life and became best friends with the Beast.
Boaz, I'm not sold on any direct links between Marvel Comics' classic 1960's superhero teams and ASOIAF. The best idea is Bran = Xavier and weirwoods = Cerebro. Seems like unintentional influence.
But it's food for thought, no?
Edit: Spelling.
Alright, Boaz. Get on with it.
Did you know that GRRM's first published writing was a letter to the Marvel Comics creative team of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee. He wrote a letter regarding the Fantastic Four #17 (August 1963) that was published in Fantastic Four #20 (November 1963). George's date of birth is September 20, 1948... so he probably wrote this letter just before his fifteenth birthday.
His second published writing came two years later in another letter to Marvel. This second letter was in response to Fantastic Four #32 and Avengers #9. The teenage GRRM thought Avengers #9 was the single greatest thing he'd read up to that point.... and he wanted to bronze it and put in his parents living room. What made this issue so great? Well, a team of supervillains created Wonder Man and turned him loose on the world... the Avengers stopped this scheme and Wonder Man died. Martin was thrilled that an enigmatic character was tricked to follow villains and then turned on them and sacrificed his own life to defeat them.
GRRM also had comments upon the Ant Man movie a few years back. Ant Man, aka Hank Pym, was one of his favorite characters, even though he was mostly looked down upon <cough> by most marvel fans. Martin said he read through all the iterations of Hank Pym... Ant Man, Giant Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, and even Hank Pym, Scientific Adventurer!
Boaz, this is all interesting, but I've heard it before. Do you have a point to make?
So... as I've been thinking about how to prove Eddard is actually Jon's father, I came up with a number of scenarios putting Eddard and Ashara together. One of these scenarios has Jon born in the Stormlands. I'll tell you now that I find this idea very implausible, but it did make me think about Jon's name.
So what? We already know Jon Snow is presumably named for Jon Arryn and the northern *******'s name. Snow helps to make the song of Ice and Fire. Duh!
But if Jon was born in the Stormlands, his name should be Jon Storm. John Storm. Johnny Storm. The Human Torch. A man of fire. A flying fire-shooting man!
So what about Jon's parents?
Forget about Jon's stupid parents! Just think about the Marvel Comics connections to A Song of Ice and Fire...
Johnny Storm is similar to a dragon. In AFFC, Quaithe tells Dany, "Dragons are fire made flesh." And Quaithe is hard to see, hard to find... like she's an invisible woman.
But Boaz, Quaithe is not a FF name!
Correct, but Benjamin is.
There's no Benjamin in ASOIAF!
Correct, but there's a Benjen. And if Benjen is Coldhands, then that means he was a ranger (always piloting a horse or elk) who went so far beyond the Wall that his body suffered irreparable damage and he was not able to return to society because of his monstrous appearance. Does that not sound like The Thing?
Okay. But what about Reed Richards?
Well... Howland Reed uses his wiles, not his physical powers to overcome obstacles. Howland seems to have special knowledge that no one else does. His secret base, uh I meant castle, moves around.
Iffy.
We know that GRRM was also a big fan of the early Avengers. Their armored financial backer and sometime leader was named Stark. And his favorite comic (Avengers #9), until he was about seventeen years old, featured the big suprise death of a wonderful character. Before that, his favorite story (FF #17) featured the return of Doctor Doom... a steel encased and enigmatic tyrant of an ancient european country.
You're seeing shadows, Boaz.
Johnny Storm is fire. Bobby Drake is ice.
Who's Bobby Drake?
He's Iceman of the X-Men. And Drake is another word for dragon... and Robert happens to be the name used for Robert Baratheon, Robb Stark, and Robert 'Sweetrobin' Arryn. After Eddard's death, Robb wants Ice.
So you've jumped from FF and Avengers to X-Men?
The original X-Men (during GRRM's teen age years) consisted of Bobby Drake, Warren Worthington, Jean Grey, Scott Summers, and Hank McCoy. And they were led by Professor Xavier, a powerful telepathic paraplegic. Professor X used Cerebro, a mighty computer to enhance his telepathic search across the planet for other mutants. He could not walk himself, but when he needed to take action he'd send out Cyclops to lead his team of mutants. Let me spell this out... Bloodraven is bound to a powerful world wide network that he uses to search for greenseers and wargs. (Currently we use the term genetics, but in medieval society they speak of blood lines.) Bran, a paraplegic, is now connected to the weirwood network (Cerebro) to search for others or to spot problems so that they can be fixed. While Bran cannot walk, he uses Summer (his direwolf) to save Jon from the Thenns and defend his traveling party. More recently, Bran has used Hodor, a veritible giant of a man, to accomplish physical tasks. Professor X is also a cripple... so he sends out Cyclops. In Greek mythology, Cyclops are giants. In the X-Men, Cyclops is actually Scott Summers. Summer is Bran's proxy. Summers is Xavier's proxy.
Jean Grey, aka Marvel Girl, aka Phoenix, aka Dark Phoenix, is a powerful mutant with telkinesis and telepathy. She has red hair. Sounds like Melisandre to me. At the end of the Dark Phoenix saga, she destoyed an entire planet. (On a side note, the actress who portrayed Sansa Stark in the HBO series, Sophie Turner, also played Jean Grey/Phoenix in the X-Men movies. And on a second side note, Famke Janssen played Phoenix/Dark Phoenix... and Sean Bean's lover in Goldeneye.) As for me, the name Jean Grey has always evoked Jane Grey, the nine day Queen of England. Due to the Hellfire Club's interference, Jean Grey entered into a hallucination of herself as a noble woman during the Renaissance/Age of Reason.
The Beast, aka Hank McCoy, was orginally a brute, but Marvel quickly recast him as a scientist with super athletic abilities. He later permanently warged into a furry, almost wolf-like character. And you know what? Wonder Man was subsequently brought back to life and became best friends with the Beast.
Boaz, I'm not sold on any direct links between Marvel Comics' classic 1960's superhero teams and ASOIAF. The best idea is Bran = Xavier and weirwoods = Cerebro. Seems like unintentional influence.
But it's food for thought, no?
Edit: Spelling.
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