Professional Editing

[RobSanders56]

I hope this is the correct place for this question -

I'm currently an amateur author but I'm hoping to self-publish some novels down the line.

I absolutely see the value of a professional editing service before publishing. I almost think it's essential.
However, at what point do you pay an editor? It does not come cheap and I'm not expecting to make any money from writing.

Just feels like a big and expensive step to take for a hobbyist writer, although I appreciate the finished product could be made a lot better as a result.

 

[Brian G Turner]

One tip I'd suggest is to send a short sample to a few different editors. Not all editors are the same, and IMO it's important to have one you feel you can work well with. I tried a few with samples and some of the feedback was rank amateur, so glad I didn;t spend more money with those.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I hope this is the correct place for this question -

I'm currently an amateur author but I'm hoping to self-publish some novels down the line.

I absolutely see the value of a professional editing service before publishing. I almost think it's essential.
However, at what point do you pay an editor? It does not come cheap and I'm not expecting to make any money from writing.

Just feels like a big and expensive step to take for a hobbyist writer, although I appreciate the finished product could be made a lot better as a result.

Have you had any critique yet from peers? I'd do that before paying for an editor.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Well, of course you need a completed manuscript (or a large chunk of one) for the editor to edit. It's not worth any of your money, really, unless you can provide them with a good sample of where you are at with a WIP and what you need, not just for that particular story, but what you in particular need to know to be going on with. Otherwise, you'll just get general writing advice, which is something you can find easily enough on the internet.

Many will look at a sample—a short story, or a few chapters of a novel—and tell you if they think you are ready for an editor, what sort of services they offer, and what they charge. (There should be no reading fee for telling you this much.)

As for the cost, the right sort of edit should not only help you improve the work in question, but also provide you with information and guidance that you'll find useful in future projects.

 

[tinkerdan]

I would echo the suggestion of getting critique. Also you might start with someone close to you that you trust to go through and edit.
However I'd suggest also to edit the manuscript several times(until you think you found everything)before getting the friend to do so and then using their input to edit through a few more times: then, you might be ready to consider paying someone.

I'd agree with the suggestion to send sample pages to the paid editors and try to find a fit for you.

Even so--unless you are extremely lucky in finding a good editor--I'd edit through after the paid edit because in my experience you still will not have caught everything.

 

[The Judge]

Once you've got your 30 counted posts, put up a small extract here in Critiques, and that will start the ball rolling. After that, I'd suggest that you try and find a good writing group, as the right people can be invaluable in helping you progress (you might need to try a few groups to find one where you and your work fit best, though, especially if you're writing SFF).

As for editors, there are different types, but for developmental editing (ie dealing with structural problems and the like) I can certainly recommend Teresa (if she's still talking clients) and for copy editing in due course (ie checking for such things as grammatical mistakes and inconsistencies) TheDustyZebra comes highly recommended.

 

[Toby Frost]

Personally, I'd see paying for editing as a very late stage of the writing-for-publication process. Before then, I'd want to get my writing as close to publishable standard as I could, which would include reading how-to books, getting some helpful critique, maybe joining a writers' group, and so on.

 

[RobSanders56]

Thanks all for the replies.
To use the example of my current WIP (which is about 50% written in first draft) - I've had a few friendly (not writery) beta-readers look it over for general comments about readibility, I've had the first 2 chapters critiqued on fantasy-writers.org (and am going to go back and redraft some parts on that basis) and I've got an author friend doing a more thorough beta-read on the first few chapters.

So plenty of people have had plenty of chances to critique so far, and in my writing process I go back over each chapter some time after writing and try to read 'fresh', before doing a final edit.

Once I've gone through that process for the entire book, that's when I'd start considering a pro edit.
But - if it's a book that is unlikely to at least make the money back that I have to pay for the edit, should I do it? I KNOW it will make it better but is it financially sound?

I think it's something I'll do at some point, sure, just don't want to throw money away too early.

 

[The Judge]

If you're looking at just one book, then no, if you're self-publishing unless you're very talented or very lucky, you're perhaps unlikely to recoup the costs of engaging a developmental editor for that ms -- in the same way that someone shelling out for a degree is unlikely to be quids in after the first year or so in her profession. However, if you think of it as an investment for your future writing career, it's a different matter.

If by "too early" you mean too soon in the life of this first book, then certainly I'd advise not sending up the first draft, but rather wait until you've made the book as good as you possibly can, calling on all the help available to you.

If by "too early" you mean in your writing career generally, then certainly waiting until your second or third book will mean that you'll have progressed further by yourself, so perhaps less work would be required from the developmental editor, thereby costing you less. However, in that event I'd suggest you think very carefully whether to publish the first un-edited books, and it might well be best just let them lie in a metaphorical bottom drawer -- putting out work that is perhaps not up to standard isn't going to help you win readers for later, more polished novels.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I suppose it depends if you see it as a career or just a one off vanity project. All the self published writers I know who make a good living from their books pay for editing. It's the one thing they're adamant about, many after being burned by not having done so. As a self publisher it's something I would never, ever go without, and that's usually after multiple passes by great betas, too.

 

[Draven Vertigo]

Once you've got your 30 counted posts, put up a small extract here in Critiques, and that will start the ball rolling. After that, I'd suggest that you try and find a good writing group, as the right people can be invaluable in helping you progress (you might need to try a few groups to find one where you and your work fit best, though, especially if you're writing SFF).

As for editors, there are different types, but for developmental editing (ie dealing with structural problems and the like) I can certainly recommend Teresa (if she's still talking clients) and for copy editing in due course (ie checking for such things as grammatical mistakes and inconsistencies) TheDustyZebra comes highly recommended.

Hi Judge I actually had a question about that. How does one know they've reached the 30 counted posts? What counts as a counted post? Is it brand new threads? Or is it replies in general? Sry I'm new.

 

[Brian G Turner]

which is about 50% written in first draft)

Far too early to think about editing.

 

[The Judge]

No need to apologise, Draven! It is a bit confusing, but the counted posts are the ones that appear as "Messages" in the box with your username, just under where it gives the date you joined -- so in your case at the moment it's 21. It's not related to threads started, but where the posts are made -- I always say "counted" posts, since members might in fact have many more posts than appear there, if they've posted in Playrooms or the Lounge or Introductions, as entries there (and some other sub-forums, I think) don't count for this purpose.

 

[sknox]

I'll echo what others are saying, but being a writer myself I of course can't just stop there.

If you can't afford to pay for an editor, then don't. You aren't going to make your money back unless you are very, very lucky. Make it the best you can and publish that. Or, hire whatever editor you can afford, with the understanding that they may not improve your book much, and almost certainly won't catch all the editors.

There's actually more expense here than it first appears, because proofreading is a separate step, and has its own costs. And, it's possible you would want a developmental editor, which is yet another cost. I imagine the editing you're thinking of is copyediting.

Once you do look for an editor, definitely do all the research you can. Just be aware that you might very well hire someone and conclude they weren't worth the expense. That's been my experience. Yes, the editors caught stuff I missed, but not stuff that substantially affected the story. Judging by reviews and sales (both of which are exceedingly modest), my readers can't tell where I hired an editor and where I did the work myself. I may not be a good example, as I've had a career in academia and am used to doing very close reading and revision.

I'm sure others will have a different opinion, but my experience so far (five books) is that any competent editor can improve poor writing, only a few (expensive ones) are going to make good writing noticeably better.

But it still comes down to cost. Buy what you can afford, but don't mortgage the house. Same goes for cover art, illustrations, and marketing.

Oh, one other item. The process of formatting the completed work, getting it published, then doing the initial marketing, all have their own learning curves. I wrote a shorter story first precisely to learn my way around (formatting is the hardest). That shorter work is now the freebie I offer to those who subscribe to my newsletter. I'm still learning things about formatting (which can be another cost, if you want!), and learning about marketing is a lifelong burden.