How Do You Feel About Writing Curse Words In Your Fiction?

[Guttersnipe]

More specifically, in dialogue? As for me, I usually leave it to whom I deem coarser characters when spoken. Do you use expletives in your stories, and, if so, when? Do you feel it detracts from, adds to, or has a neutral effect on the story?

 

[Wayne Mack]

It's probably due to personal taste, but I avoid most cursing in my stories. I don't go beyond anything that one might hear on network TV. I will let my characters curse to express anger, frustration, or irritation. I do not feel that cursing adds much to a story and, as a reader, I cringe slightly when the higher caliber curse words are used, though I won't claim that cursing has ever stopped me from reading a story.

 

[therapist]

I feel like it depends how natural it sounds. When I read Joe Abercrombie or Geroge RR Martin, I feel like the odd f bomb or c bomb do actually add to the style. Both those authors are extremely good at writing a very close 3rd person and writing crude characters to whom swearing comes very naturally.

If Brandon Sanderson tried to do the same thing I feel like it would detract and sound very forced and cringeworthy. Maybe because Brandon doesn't swear in real life. Or maybe swearing just sounds better in a more grimdark genre.

 

[Swank]

Profanity in your writing

So I've just finished my first novel. The dialogue has a fair bit of profanity. It's not absolutely laced with swears but maybe a bit more than just sprinkled in. Some of my beta readers, (My wife and mom) think that it's a bit much and that the frequency of the swears takes away from the impact...

www.sffchronicles.com

My answer remains - swear words stand out in print in a way that they may not in real life. Use them as thoughtfully as you would exclamation marks.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

No problem with it. Many Irish curse often and readily. My Irish characters would feel unreal if they did not

 

[reiver33]

Not all my characters swear as a matter of course, some are actually quite polite. Give me a minute and I’m sure I can come up with some examples...

 

[Venusian Broon]

I'm totally okay with it! (Re: the OP title. )

I can't think of any other person's writing where I thought the swearing was excessive or taking me out of the story. I'm sure there are such examples out there. Possibly I don't read too much rubbish

On the other hand, the number of books where the author clearly wants a character to swear but is either forced to change it to something else either because they were told to make the change by the publisher/market or they were squeamish about it is quite high and I find really cringe and a negative. A lot of golden age SF has this.

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

I don't hesitate if it is in context. Typically I use it in dialogue but it might also fit in a first person, expressionist narrative. Of course, in a work of speculative fiction it is sometimes possible to invent wonderful new profanities.

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

I can't think of any other person's writing where I thought the swearing was excessive or taking me out of the story.

Henry Miller? Frankly it sometimes seems a bit much.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Of course, in a work of speculative fiction it is sometimes possible to invent wonderful new profanities.

Yes possibly. Red Dwarf managed it with 'smeg' for example. But generally I feel such inventions usually induce cringe!

 

[Venusian Broon]

Henry Miller? Frankly it sometimes seems a bit much.

Not got round to reading any of his work (along with a vast number of other authors...) so I'll have to take your word for it.

I'd say the only time swearing 'surprised me' was for the film Sexy Beast and Ben Kingsley's character, Don Logan. It doesn't detract from the film, which I really rate, but instead gives it an abrasive tone very different from others. Still a bit of shock when you first watch it.

 

[Christine Wheelwright]

A profanity, even a mild one, can certainly provide some impact and draw attention. For example, I offer the opening line of my as-yet-unpublished novel Hooke's Law:

It was that b**tard Vane who once said to me that there are but two conditions in which to kill a man; either cold sober or blind drunk.

 

[JS Wiig]

How do I feel about writing curse words?

F*** yeah!

But context is important.

ETA: As a (funny?) aside we listen to a lot of books on tape for road trips, including Scalzi’s Interdependency trilogy. With Kiva Lagos. With the kids. Oops. Oh well, not like they don’t hear me say it, mostly when I’m driving. My verbal horn, if you will.

John Scalzi on the Most Versatile Word in Any Language - the Roarbots

John Scalzi drops in to chat about 'The Last Emperox' (Interdependency #3), Kiva Lagos, and the most versatile word in any language: "f*ck."

theroarbots.com

 

[msstice]

Of course, in a work of speculative fiction it is sometimes possible to invent wonderful new profanities.

Yes possibly. Red Dwarf managed it with 'smeg' for example. But generally I feel such inventions usually induce cringe!

I've been dealing with this in my work. Given the time period (a few centuries hence, not on Earth) the characters are speaking a language that has evolved away from contemporary languages. My story is in English, so I have two choices:

1. Use straight english swear words because the whole work is "translated".
2. Use made up swear words

My issue is that #2 always results in a comic effect. Red Dwarf's "smeg" always elicits laughter. Firefly's East Asian patois always sounds funny - at least I don't recall a time when Mal and his crew were cursing in patois when the thing was really serious, and they have the advantage that you can see the person's expression which is a huge cue as to whether this is comedy or tragedy. (Of course, with Firefly, it's always a bit of both.)

My recourse is to use #2 in cases when its not life or death and only in cases where the stakes are high, use #1. Now, I might take out the swearing if I can figure out a better way, but I've found that a well placed F-word can add that final kick to a situation. Like, even this person, who's so calm and temperate, is using the F-word, aloud.

But perhaps more experienced writers here can tell me that its not needed.

the film Sexy Beast and Ben Kingsley's character

I should watch that movie. In my mind it's a heresy because I always associate Ben Kingsley with Gandhi, and at most, the hacker in Sneakers. To have him associated with a movie called "Sexy Beast" seems so ... un-Ben Kingsley-like.

PS. Just saw it has Amanda Redman, who I just love in "Old Tricks." so perhaps I should see it.

 

[Wayne Mack]

My issue is that [se made up swear words] always results in a comic effect.

The comic aspect can be mitigated by creating a marginalized race or group to be used as an insult. Muggle in the Harry Potter series is an example of a made up insult that does not sound humorous. Another option is to use an action in lieu of a verbal outburst to show anger, irritation, or whatever.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I should watch that movie. In my mind it's a heresy because I always associate Ben Kingsley with Gandhi, and at most, the hacker in Sneakers. To have him associated with a movie called "Sexy Beast" seems so ... un-Ben Kingsley-like.

PS. Just saw it has Amanda Redman, who I just love in "Old Tricks." so perhaps I should see it.

Yes, in a way that's what makes it even more shocking and unexpected. The flow of profanity coming from his mouth was, from memory, of tsunami-like proportions.

In the commentary track I think he says when he received the script, he asked the director to get to the centre of his character, and he got the reply that at its core this movie is about the most content man in the world (Ray Winston's character) and the world's angriest man (Ben's character!)

Kingsley has called Logan a “tomahawk missile,” and saw him as someone who “was an abused child who was never held and went on to abuse others.” A big source of inspiration, though, was closer to home. Kingsley’s maternal grandmother, he told an interviewer, “was an extremely violent and unpleasant woman. She was racist, fascist and anti-Semitic. When I play great heroic Jews and great heroic dark people, I’m sticking two fingers up at her. When I played Don Logan, I was channelling her.” He later called her “murderous” and “terrifying” – “not physically violent, but verbally violent.” (from: 8 Things You Should Know About Sexy Beast - Scotts Blog)

There are quite a few youtube videos with some of the performance, if you are interested. Definitely not workplace suitable!

 

[sknox]

Context is everything. If it's set in modern times or something analogous to that, then use modern language. If it's set in some historical era or analogue to that, then strive for some sort of verisimilitude. All it takes is a sprinkle. My model for that is Patrick O'Brian, who was a master at it, fitting cursing not only to the times but also to the class and background of the speaker.

When dealing with a completely invented world, things get trickier. Many invented worlds fall into that "analogue" category and are obviously similar to a real historical era (steampunk, e.g.). But some are quite outside the pale, and there the author must find their own way. Very broadly, the narrator ought not swear more than the characters. First person narrator is the huge exception there; a first-person narrator is essentially another character and so should fit properly into the larger context.

Beyond or behind all that is the matter of audience. If the target is a young reader, then the rules might change, or at least an individual author might make different choices. Personally, were I to write a modern YA fantasy, I'd stay well away from swearing or any sort of jargon because the vocabulary of the young shifts so often and subtly. If the adults are aware of it, it's already out of date.

All of which is to say ... it depends.

 

[paranoid marvin]

It may just be the novels I read, but few of the authors I read have much swearing in their writing; it doesn't make the characters any less believable.

We know that people belch, break wind, go to the loo etc etc - I don't think it's necessary to include it in a story. These are things that people do in between all the things being written about in the book, we just mentally fill in those parts for ourselves. I'm also not sure that dialogue has to have swearing in it to make it realistic.

If we were to write dialogue as was spoken in 'real life' we would have stutters, mumbling, umming and ahing, mispronunciation, saying the wrong thing, speaking over each other etc. - to me this would be realistic. The reason that we don't have it, is a similar reason as to why we don't often get details of all the mundane things we do I listed above - because it would detract from the story. Instead we have 'literature speak' where characters will (usually) say what they would have said if they'd had time to think about it before saying it. What we hear is what drives the story forward, and all the other little bits we can fill in for ourselves.

It's an interesting thing that if you look at a lot of tv programmes from the 60s and 70s, you will see stumblings and mispronunciations when characters are speaking to each other. Whether this was left in because it was too expensive to replay the scene again, or because it was too much hassle, or because the stumble wasn't that bad I don't know. But what I do know is that it makes the scenes look far more authentic. In real life we don't get the chance to start again and say it again more eloquently.

Going back to the OP's question, I very rarely use swearing in my writing (in fact in a recent 75 Word Challenge I blanked out 'bloody'). I think that swearing in writing is a valuable tool, but for it to be effective it has to be used sparingly. I agree with Swank in that it should be used with a similar thoughtfulness to the use of exclamation marks.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Context is everything. If it's set in modern times or something analogous to that, then use modern language. If it's set in some historical era or analogue to that, then strive for some sort of verisimilitude. All it takes is a sprinkle. My model for that is Patrick O'Brian, who was a master at it, fitting cursing not only to the times but also to the class and background of the speaker.

When dealing with a completely invented world, things get trickier. Many invented worlds fall into that "analogue" category and are obviously similar to a real historical era (steampunk, e.g.). But some are quite outside the pale, and there the author must find their own way. Very broadly, the narrator ought not swear more than the characters. First person narrator is the huge exception there; a first-person narrator is essentially another character and so should fit properly into the larger context.

Beyond or behind all that is the matter of audience. If the target is a young reader, then the rules might change, or at least an individual author might make different choices. Personally, were I to write a modern YA fantasy, I'd stay well away from swearing or any sort of jargon because the vocabulary of the young shifts so often and subtly. If the adults are aware of it, it's already out of date.

All of which is to say ... it depends.

If memory serves Cornwell's 'Sharpe' series and CS Forester's 'Hornblower' series featured little swearing (Harper's usual phrase was "God save Ireland"). I'm pretty sure that during the Napoleonic wars, both soldiers' and sailors' language would have been highly colourful.

 

[Luiglin]

As copy pasted from elsewhere which follows my own reasonings for using swear words.

Many early instances of f*%k were actually used to mean “to strike” rather than being anything to do with actual intercourse. The more common Middle English word for sex was swive, which has developed nicely into the Modern English word swivel, as in: go swivel on it.

So yes, I do use swear words but older ones for my fantasy stuff rather than ones that have become more popular in recent years. In many cases words that were often really offensive years gone past are seen less so now and often can be quite comical.