Genetic markers

[DAgent]

So I was thinking about a scene in Bladerunner 2049, and there is a scene where they find a body that they later realised is a replicant, due to having manufacturing markers on her bones. More importantly, this replicant had been pregnant.

So here's my question to ponder, if the markers on a replicant were on a genetic level, and every gene had such a marker, and they had a child, either with a human or another replicant, would the child inherit the same markers in their genes?

 

[Wayne Mack]

Assuming that the Replicant markers were genetic, then I would say yes. This seems to be the same idea as genetic tracing of human migrations going back hundreds of thousands of years (as well as in other species). I suspect a future Ancestry.com could report on the percent of Replicant DNA in one's past.

 

[hitmouse]

You get 50% of your genes from your mother and 50 % from your father, in a random assortment, so half of those genes would be marked, if such a thing is feasible. Considering that we carry about 100k genes each ( the number varies depending on who or how the count is done, but that order of magnitude) that is a lot of trademarks, possibly sufficient to affect the efficiency of the genome overall.

 

[Swank]

So I was thinking about a scene in Bladerunner 2049, and there is a scene where they find a body that they later realised is a replicant, due to having manufacturing markers on her bones. More importantly, this replicant had been pregnant.

So here's my question to ponder, if the markers on a replicant were on a genetic level, and every gene had such a marker, and they had a child, either with a human or another replicant, would the child inherit the same markers in their genes?

"Genetic marker" is something you look for in genes themselves. Serial numbers on microscopic structures, bones or wherever are expressions of genes, or are expressions of the way replicants are assembled/gestated/grown. We know replicants don't develop from a single dividing cell - we are shown the facility where eyes are made in BR.

So there is no reason to conclude that a being with 50% replicant genes would have any microscopic markings at all, since they weren't manufactured and gene expression is rarely a simple single gene dominant.


The fact that Voight-Kompf is even necessary suggests that the genetics that make replicants different than people is complex and subtle, otherwise they would have just done a DNA swab. Same with the microscopic markings - if it was that easy they would just scan people suspected of not being human.

The point of replicants is that they are easy to make quickly enough to be useful, and they don't see themselves as human so their use as androids isn't obviously slavery. Which is why they aren't simply grown clones.


I would imagine that the snake in BR had serial numbers on its cells because, being cruder than a replicant, its cells don't replace themselves and just last as long as the animal lives. And those serial numbers were put in during manufacturing of that scale, not constantly renewed through cell replacement.

 

[Dave]

While some of our DNA are genes that code for enzymes and other proteins, most of our DNA is junk. It has no purpose, just repeated chains of base pairs and old mutations. Some parts of Chromosomes mutate frequently and are very changeable. They will copy and repeat themselves, or individual base pairs will change and swap out. Other parts of Chromosomes mutate very slowly and the sequences will remain intact for many generations. These parts are used as genetic markers as they are passed down through generations unaltered and are specific to a species, or a wave of historical human migration, or down to the level of a family group.

In BladeRunner, I understood the mention of genetic markers to be a kind of barcode giving date and place of manufacture. If the Replicant reproduced and had a child, and this was a code written into their DNA, then certainly, the genetic markers could be passed on to their offspring, except that you are assuming that Replicants can reproduce and have children. I thought they were deliberately made both infertile, and with a limited lifespan. I'm not sure that the infertility was ever explicitly mentioned though, while the limited lifespan was. As Swank mentioned, they appeared to be put together from spare parts rather than grown from a single cell, in which case their cells will not have identical DNA, so unlikely.

However, there is another reason why I don't think they can reproduce. They were a very expensive piece of kit, used by Corporations to mine inhospitable planets and such, where humans could not do so. It wouldn't make any sense for The Tyrell Corporation to make androids that could reproduce themselves. If they could reproduce themselves then you would never need to buy another from Tyrell. Or else, in a few years you could build an army of them. It is a similar thing with GM crop seeds. If you can harvest fertile seeds and plant them the following year, then you'd never need to go back to Monsanto for more. I expect the genetic markers/ barcode is there to prevent this. Its presence would identify which original Replicant the offspring came from and therefore who had broken their contract with Tyrell. Even if it were possible to make one that was fertile, then it would be an extra expense for Tyrell with no profit for them. I could see it being a hack that was asked for once you bought one, from some illegal repair shop.

 

[Swank]

In BladeRunner, I understood the mention of genetic markers to be a kind of barcode giving date and place of manufacture.

BR or 2049? What might have been true in 2049 was not necessarily being done in 2019.

There is a conclusion at the end of 2049 that replicants in general might be able to breed, but I think that the "miracle" was more of secret experiment on Tyrel's part that died with him. The corporation in 2049 is a different company with damaged records - as evidenced by their imperfect Rachel.

I think the main theme of 2049 is that a child naturally born of a replicant "proves" that they are human and nothing less.

 

[THX1138]

BR or 2049? What might have been true in 2049 was not necessarily being done in 2019.

There is a conclusion at the end of 2049 that replicants in general might be able to breed, but I think that the "miracle" was more of secret experiment on Tyrel's part that died with him. The corporation in 2049 is a different company with damaged records - as evidenced by their imperfect Rachel.

I think the main theme of 2049 is that a child naturally born of a replicant "proves" that they are human and nothing less.

Yes. As the Rachel model was just an experiment, and had no markers at all, then outside of an extended and tedious Voight-Kampff Test, the Rachell was unit was only identifiable through DNA testing, thus hidden. Thus, a real DNA human? But the reps in 2049 did not have this 'knowhow' and so their reason for hunting Rachelle and the rep-human offspring down. There lay their answer: 'More human then human, until human.' That's what they wanted. But they needed the 'Rachell perfection' and could not achieve it. Individual identity and life was not enough for them; they wanted more.

But the clone issue was still a factor. Remember that all pleasure reps look like Pris, but with some slight imperfections to distinguish an individual DNA and serial number/make inorder to track them and to prevent mutations in replications. But every Pleasure model came with the same memories and skills, thus a memory/identity error. The want of individuality is what drove the reps in the first place; 2019.

All rep types look similar, with some differences in order to continue 'the DNA line'.

The human 'factor' of individual identity and free thought must be a 'Dream' to a rep that has the same memories as it's other cloned selves.
Individuality in 'thought and self' was freedom to a rep that was enslaved into collective thought of no self-worth. Thus, the desire to be 'More human until superior to human.' 2049.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Genetic markers on their bones?

They would be in every cell.

Markers on their bones - Is a completely different thing.

Laser etching perfectly feasible in 2049.

Do we ever find out how these replicants were made?

Is it a process like they use in Westworld?

 

[Danny McG]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" Arthur C Clarke.

 See what I'm getting at here? Markers? Magic?

Magic markers!

 

[Swank]

Yes. As the Rachel model was just an experiment, and had no markers at all, then outside of an extended and tedious Voight-Kampff Test, the Rachell was unit was only identifiable through DNA testing, thus hidden. Thus, a real DNA human? But the reps in 2049 did not have this 'knowhow' and so their reason for hunting Rachelle and the rep-human offspring down. There lay their answer: 'More human then human, until human.' That's what they wanted. But they needed the 'Rachell perfection' and could not achieve it. Individual identity and life was not enough for them; they wanted more.

But the clone issue was still a factor. Remember that all pleasure reps look like Pris, but with some slight imperfections to distinguish an individual DNA and serial number/make inorder to track them and to prevent mutations in replications. But every Pleasure model came with the same memories and skills, thus a memory/identity error. The want of individuality is what drove the reps in the first place; 2019.

All rep types look similar, with some differences in order to continue 'the DNA line'.

The human 'factor' of individual identity and free thought must be a 'Dream' to a rep that has the same memories as it's other cloned selves.
Individuality in 'thought and self' was freedom to a rep that was enslaved into collective thought of no self-worth. Thus, the desire to be 'More human until superior to human.' 2049.

Where is this information coming from? It isn't in the films.

 

[THX1138]

Where is this information coming from? It isn't in the films.

Hypothetic. Just an out loud thought.

 

[Swank]

Hypothetic. Just an out loud thought.

Why would they make all the sex workers look identical? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[THX1138]

Why would they make all the sex workers look identical? That doesn't make any sense.

Well, not identical, but very similar. If I remember correctly, in 2049 you could tell the pleasure reps because they all looked very similar, like Priss.
We know you could have a custom-made rep, this is stated in the first movie.

So, your rep could look like what you want. But again, I you mass produced a type of rep for a specific function, whatever the function, you'll do so in a way that is easiest for you; they will look similar (not identical) with the same implanted memories so you can put your effort into your true goal; perfection of the one.

And if I remember correctly too, when Deckard was captured in 2049, the reps all looked very similar.
Again, not all reps of a specific function looked alike. The assassin rep was different, thus difficult to identify.

 

[Swank]

Non3

Well, not identical, but very similar. If I remember correctly, in 2049 you could tell the pleasure reps because they all looked very similar, like Priss.
We know you could have a custom-made rep, this is stated in the first movie.

So, your rep could look like what you want. But again, I you mass produced a type of rep for a specific function, whatever the function, you'll do so in a way that is easiest for you; they will look similar (not identical) with the same implanted memories so you can put your effort into your true goal; perfection of the one.

And if I remember correctly too, when Deckard was captured in 2049, the reps all looked very similar.
Again, not all reps of a specific function looked alike. The assassin rep was different, thus difficult to identify

None of the replicants ever looked identical. Only two of the BR replicants had memory implants.


There is no advantage in not being able to tell your workers apart.

 

[Dave]

In any case, since no one can yet make a simulacrum or android, with genetic markers or not. I'm moving this thread from the science and nature forum.

 

[THX1138]

Non3

None of the replicants ever looked identical. Only two of the BR replicants had memory implants.


There is no advantage in not being able to tell your workers apart.

Very true! But what we saw in 2049, similar not identical. You can still tell a difference between them.
Good conversation Swank!