Technofantasy: A Genre I've Discovered. Opinion?

[Swank]

Technology is not the answer. But I don't think that rational thinking and behavior is likely to become universal at any time.

If an overwhelming innovation or rationality aren't the answer, what is?

I think we stand a much greater chance of someone saving us than saving ourselves.

 

[Parson]

I think we stand a much greater chance of someone saving us than saving ourselves.

I agree. (He says while biting his tongue to keep from going in a forbidden direction.)

 

[Swank]

I agree. (He says while biting his tongue to keep from going in a forbidden direction.)

Or Jesus will do it.

 

[Ray Zdybrow]

Publishing is a commercial concern, and genre is a marketing tool.
But, as George Clinton asked, "Can you imagine Doobie in your Funk?"

 

[KGeo777]

The science in Star Wars is deliberately treated as something mundane--thus they have everything (other than time travel). Cryogenic freezing is nothing--clones are common place....robots...even computers are so common that they have a class system--thus some robots and computers are more street-wise or coarse and others are the C3PO kind.
Because it is so common place, a Death Star is the big techno -newfangled whatchacallit.
And it was partly in order to contrast with the Force aspect.
I think there is a deliberate aim with Star Wars to minimize the technology as something important. Especially in the first film since the contrast is between the Goliath of the space station that destroys planets and the inner power of Force belief--a David with sling shot theme.
The scene that really shows that is in the trench when Luke is heading for the target and told to use that Force belief instead of a computer.

It's not just magic vs science but the idea of the natural vs the artificial. Considering how much technology was needed to make Star Wars I wouldn't call it a heartfelt message, but they deliberately wanted to make it seem like the universe had everything in SF that you can think of--the "science fiction" aspect of it is meant to be the least important. This is deliberate--how does that correlate or differ with other science fiction?

In Frankenstein, the scientific aspects aren't as important as the relationships, one might say the same of Star Trek but they also had stories where scientific ingenuity is the focus or solution, not just a problem (if it ever really is a problem--in some stories--like the ones involving sentient holographic characters--science is often used to provide a solution to a problem that comes from science...they just stick Moriarty in another holographic illusion and leave him on a tabletop).

 

[Swank]

The science in Star Wars is deliberately treated as something mundane--thus they have everything (other than time travel). Cryogenic freezing is nothing--clones are common place....robots...even computers are so common that they have a class system--thus some robots and computers are more street-wise or coarse and others are the C3PO kind.
Because it is so common place, a Death Star is the big techno -newfangled whatchacallit.
And it was partly in order to contrast with the Force aspect.
I think there is a deliberate aim with Star Wars to minimize the technology as something important. Especially in the first film since the contrast is between the Goliath of the space station that destroys planets and the inner power of Force belief--a David with sling shot theme.
The scene that really shows that is in the trench when Luke is heading for the target and told to use that Force belief instead of a computer.

It's not just magic vs science but the idea of the natural vs the artificial. Considering how much technology was needed to make Star Wars I wouldn't call it a heartfelt message, but they deliberately wanted to make it seem like the universe had everything in SF that you can think of--the "science fiction" aspect of it is meant to be the least important. This is deliberate--how does that correlate or differ with other science fiction?

In Frankenstein, the scientific aspects aren't as important as the relationships, one might say the same of Star Trek but they also had stories where scientific ingenuity is the focus or solution, not just a problem (if it ever really is a problem--in some stories--like the ones involving sentient holographic characters--science is often used to provide a solution to a problem that comes from science...they just stick Moriarty in another holographic illusion and leave him on a tabletop).

I think this kind of thing is rather overstated. Star Wars does not set up a science vs human or tech vs belief type conflict. The Empire has Force and tech, the Rebels have Force and tech. Luke uses the Force not to fight technology, but to use it better.


Overall, the tendency to reduce great books or film into philosophical taglines ought to be rejected. Especially in the case of SF - which has the ability to be about many things without needing to have any strong thematic content.

 

[KGeo777]

I think this kind of thing is rather overstated. Star Wars does not set up a science vs human or tech vs belief type conflict. The Empire has Force and tech, the Rebels have Force and tech. Luke uses the Force not to fight technology, but to use it better.

Yes but it's also in the sequels.
Yoda lives on a planet with no technology.
The Ewoks defeat the technological empire with rocks and sticks.

It's not exactly subtle.

 

[Toby Frost]

Overall, the tendency to reduce great books or film into philosophical taglines ought to be rejected. Especially in the case of SF - which has the ability to be about many things without needing to have any strong thematic content.

It's a case of not everything being a nail, even when you've got a hammer. Orwell was probably wrong to say that all art is propaganda - it's more that all art can probably be seen as propaganda depending on how you look at it.

 

[Swank]

Yes but it's also in the sequels.
Yoda lives on a planet with no technology.
The Ewoks defeat the technological empire with rocks and sticks.

It's not exactly subtle.

Nor is it total or that important. While the Ewoks are fighting, the Rebels are waging a complex battle involving hyperdrive ships attacking a space station generator protected by a forcefield. And Luke is being persuaded to switch sides for reasons that have nothing to do with technology or even politics.

It's a minor theme. It would be better to say that SW is about the loyalty of friendship.

 

[KGeo777]

And Luke is being persuaded to switch sides for reasons that have nothing to do with technology or even politics.

Except he sees his father's mechanical severed hand circuitry and is reminded of his own.

 

[Swank]

Except he sees his father's mechanical severed hand circuitry and is reminded of his own.

So? You think Luke rejects the hand later on?

 

[KGeo777]

So? You think Luke rejects the hand later on?

How could he reject it?
Replace it with a womp rat who acts as a hand for him? In that universe, technology is so pervasive--it is as common place as nails and 2x 4s.

Lucas introduced midichlorians which were criticized as being a scientific element to explain the Force. It was taken as a violation of the mystical idea in the original films.

 

[Swank]

How could he reject it?
Replace it with a womp rat who acts as a hand for him? In that universe, technology is so pervasive--it is as common place as nails and 2x 4s.

Lucas introduced midichlorians which were criticized as being a scientific element to explain the Force. It was taken as a violation of the mystical idea in the original films.

Midichlorians were criticized for sounding stupid, along asexual reproduction.

Luke could have a hook and use the force to juggle and pour blue milk

 

[KGeo777]

Midichlorians were criticized for sounding stupid, along asexual reproduction.

Luke could have a hook and use the force to juggle and pour blue milk

That and that the Force was being explained in scientific terms.

A hook is more techie than a womp rat. If he was going to reject technology he needs to go the extra mile.

 

[Swank]

But he didn't, because it is not an actual theme.

If he was going to reject technology he needs to go the extra mile.

 

[KGeo777]

But he didn't, because it is not an actual theme.

You are the only one I have encountered who has said that. One would assume that having a mechanical arm is not preferable to a real one even though Luke's arm is capable of feeling with it.
At the time of release, the gist of Luke looking at his hand when he sees his father's wrist is that he did not want to end up like him---as in--turned into a cyborg.

It was ok for Lobot though.
A theme, yes.
Consistent, no.

 

[Swank]

You are the only one I have encountered who has said that. One would assume that having a mechanical arm is not preferable to a real one even though Luke's arm is capable of feeling with it.
At the time of release, the gist of Luke looking at his hand when he sees his father's wrist is that he did not want to end up like him---as in--turned into a cyborg.

It was ok for Lobot though.
A theme, yes.
Consistent, no.

No, he didn't want to end up on the dark side. The hand is a symbol. The head in the tree is a symbol.

 

[KGeo777]

No, he didn't want to end up on the dark side. The hand is a symbol. The head in the tree is a symbol.

I agree with you in that Lucas can hardly say the ewoks beat the Empire with their primitive fighting (which is what he has said, when they still had to blow up the Death Star the old-fashioned way (with a spaceship).
But, among the various ideas swirling around in there is the "back to Nature" theme which the Force represents. Just as Darth Vader is a Frankenstein monster type of character (not originally, but by the time of the third film).
Not relevant to the prequels though. General Yoda standing on a spaceship alongside clone troopers doesn't really convey a pastoral concept despite his swamp weather attire and hand-carved cane.

 

[Swank]

I agree with you in that Lucas can hardly say the ewoks beat the Empire with their primitive fighting (which is what he has said, when they still had to blow up the Death Star the old-fashioned way (with a spaceship).
But, among the various ideas swirling around in there is the "back to Nature" theme which the Force represents. Just as Darth Vader is a Frankenstein monster type of character (not originally, but by the time of the third film).
Not relevant to the prequels though. General Yoda standing on a spaceship alongside clone troopers doesn't really convey a pastoral concept despite his swamp weather attire and hand-carved cane.

I don't think insisting that SW has a back to nature theme makes it so. Some people like certain themes and appear to be able to find them everywhere - because they want to find them.

There is an incredible amount of material out there about the design, writing and production of the SW films - and rejection of technology has NEVER been brought up in all that time.

 

[KGeo777]

I don't think insisting that SW has a back to nature theme makes it so. Some people like certain themes and appear to be able to find them everywhere - because they want to find them.

There is an incredible amount of material out there about the design, writing and production of the SW films - and rejection of technology has NEVER been brought up in all that time.

I am only going by what Lucas said over the years when discussing themes (especially prior to the prequels). Is the message stated clearly? No.
But that is what he said over the years.
Was it just to appease reporters?
Maybe.
But some of the ideas are in the films themselves.
He didn't shut off his computer in the first film willy nilly. It was to use natural abilities instead of technology.
That is a rejection of technology unless that onboard computer was made of flowers or something.