YA Fiction - Life & Death

[The Bloated One]

Below is a small piece from my second novel continuing the adventures of a time travelling teenager, Tarquin Jenkins. I have a problem that I'd like some help with. The premise is simple. Two alien races play around with earth's history, sending it down different pathways. An organization that Tarquin belongs to, tries to stop them. Here lies the problem. The aliens are saving the Titanic, not letting it hit the iceberg. For a YA fiction novel, I am going to need to play with life and death. History has to remain on course, so the ship must sink. People will die. Is the subject matter too black and white for YA fiction?
Calbhach is a leprechaun...Archie is a human.

------------------------

Calbhach and Archie broke open the bridge door. Inside was Captain Edward J Smith, standing bolt upright staring at the wall. Two officers looked at him, puzzled.

“It’s a Griddleback clone!” Shouted Archie moving quickly past the officers to wave a hand in front of the Captain’s unchanging expression before gently pushing him. The Captain’s rigid body slid across the wall and fell to the floor.

The two officers rushed to his aid, “Who are you? What have you done to Captain Smith?” Cried one as Calbhach grabbed his collar, levered himself up so he was level with his face. “We are your only hope,” he growled, injecting him before gently pushing the officer backwards letting him fall unconscious to the floor.

“What’s wrong with Captain Smith?” Shouted the other officer looking at Archie. “He’s sleeping,” replied Archie.

“He can’t be sleeping!” Shouted the officer. Archie looked into Smith’s his wide, staring eyes.

“It’s definitely a clone. What are the Griddlebacks up to?” Said Archie shaking his head. He wiped his brow and looked out to sea.”He was put here to avoid the iceberg, save the Titanic, and put history on another course.”

Archie looked at the time,”forty minutes before they’re due to hit the iceberg.”

“What iceberg?” Queried the officer.

“Has Captain Smith changed course in the last twenty minutes?” Asked Archie.

“No,” replied the officer, “ but he dropped our speed to 5 knots and doubled the look-outs.”

Archie looked at Calbhach who had got behind the remaining officer and injected him. They placed him with his unconscious colleague on the bridge floor.

“Smith is hoping someone spots the iceberg and either they avoid it, or we hit it at a such a slow speed that it doesn’t sink the ship. What do we do?” Asked Archie.

“We have to hit the iceberg at 25 knots. It has to sink.”

 

[Yozh]

I don’t think life, death, and the consequences of altering time are “too dark” for YA, look at what is done in comics/manga like Umbrella Academy, Full Metal Alchemist etc. And themes like this are all over Marvel Universe. (E.g Loki series). And of course there the Hunger Games with teens killing each other.

That said, when it comes to killing to preserve the status quo, it’s usually the *antagonist* position. Its not clear to me whether Archie and Calbhach are protagonists in your book or not, but I have a feeling that protag ensuring the deaths of a shipload of people as collateral damage in a riff on the trolley car problem would be a tough sell.

 

[ColGray]

Agree with Yozh that life, death and consequences are all good topics, but:

1. There's a difference between, These people historically died/are already dead, and, Get the syringe cuz we got some killin' to do.
   1. There's great conflict in the discussion of, Do we let them die? How can we? How can we not?? If we don't let them die like they're supposed to and not because we're going to murder them then XYZ could/will happen.
   2. The difference between purity of timeline/protecting what's right, and committing violence to kill people is monumental and requires a deft hand
2. If this is an escalation of struggle for them--if they've never dealt with life and death situations--then the escalation should be discussed and thought through. Part of YA is opening up to new thoughts, ideas and consequences: the meat is in the conflict of should we/could we
   1. Hunger Games and Katniss killing someone the first time, paired with her PTSD and long term reaction to that violence
   2. Harry and the unforgivable curses
3. The people dying need to be pretty archetypically evil --though I think you can reasonably skirt this via the, They're already dead/They have to die, conflict.

That's a cool story idea, btw.

Minor grammatical call out:

Cried one as Calbhach grabbed his collar, levered himself up so

Should be either, 'cried one, as Calbhach grabbed his collar, levering himself up so...' or, ' cried one, as Calbhach grabbed his collar and levered himself up so...'

 

[msstice]

Below is a small piece from my second novel continuing the adventures of a time travelling teenager, Tarquin Jenkins. I have a problem that I'd like some help with. The premise is simple. Two alien races play around with earth's history, sending it down different pathways. An organization that Tarquin belongs to, tries to stop them. Here lies the problem.

The aliens are saving the Titanic, not letting it hit the iceberg. For a YA fiction novel, I am going to need to play with life and death. History has to remain on course, so the ship must sink. People will die. Is the subject matter too black and white for YA fiction?
Calbhach is a leprechaun...Archie is a human.

Young Adult with violent deaths are common. The Harry Potter series for example. Young Adult with gruesome stuff has been written (Roald Dahl). A Series of Unfortunate Events has lots of allusions to death.

Having people die in the abstract won't be too bad, but I think it depends a lot on how the story is treated and where you want to go with the story, what kind of ethical quandaries you want to explore and if it has any moral lessons.

It does sound like a serious book. The British are able to pull of black humor well and so a British kids book where the passengers of the Titanic go down happily after time travel paradoxes have been explained to them _sounds_ feasible.

------------------------

Calbhach and Archie broke open the bridge door. Inside was Captain Edward J Smith, standing bolt upright staring at the wall. Two officers looked at him, puzzled.

“It’s a Griddleback clone!” Shouted Archie moving quickly past the officers to wave a hand in front of the Captain’s unchanging expression before gently pushing him. The Captain’s rigid body slid across the wall and fell to the floor.

The two officers rushed to his aid, “Who are you? What have you done to Captain Smith?” Cried one as Calbhach grabbed his collar, levered himself up so he was level with his face. “We are your only hope,” he growled, injecting him before gently pushing the officer backwards letting him fall unconscious to the floor.

“What’s wrong with Captain Smith?” Shouted the other officer looking at Archie. “He’s sleeping,” replied Archie.

“He can’t be sleeping!” Shouted the officer. Archie looked into Smith’s his wide, staring eyes.

“It’s definitely a clone. What are the Griddlebacks up to?” Said Archie shaking his head. He wiped his brow and looked out to sea.”He was put here to avoid the iceberg, save the Titanic, and put history on another course.”

Archie looked at the time,”forty minutes before they’re due to hit the iceberg.”

“What iceberg?” Queried the officer.

“Has Captain Smith changed course in the last twenty minutes?” Asked Archie.

“No,” replied the officer, “ but he dropped our speed to 5 knots and doubled the look-outs.”

Archie looked at Calbhach who had got behind the remaining officer and injected him. They placed him with his unconscious colleague on the bridge floor.

I'm missing something here: there are three Titanic characters. The captain and two officers. The Captain is taken care of. Calbhach takes care of one. Rereading the scene it _seems_ like Calbhach has taken care of the other officer previously. Perhaps make explicit mention of this.

“Smith is hoping someone spots the iceberg and either they avoid it, or we hit it at a such a slow speed that it doesn’t sink the ship. What do we do?” Asked Archie.

“We have to hit the iceberg at 25 knots. It has to sink.”

This all seems straightforward and a great setup and most of us I'm sure will want to read more. On the flip side, it's not enough words for me to give more detailed feedback.

 

[The Bloated One]

I don’t think life, death, and the consequences of altering time are “too dark” for YA, look at what is done in comics/manga like Umbrella Academy, Full Metal Alchemist etc. And themes like this are all over Marvel Universe. (E.g Loki series). And of course there the Hunger Games with teens killing each other.

That said, when it comes to killing to preserve the status quo, it’s usually the *antagonist* position. Its not clear to me whether Archie and Calbhach are protagonists in your book or not, but I have a feeling that protag ensuring the deaths of a shipload of people as collateral damage in a riff on the trolley car problem would be a tough sell.

Yozh,

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I am a lot happier after reading your thoughts, death is fine as long as it's inevitable and not taken advantage of. History stays on course.

Archie and Calbhach are part of a team of protagonists that work with the main protagonist, Tarquin. To cut a long story short, Leonardo Da Vinci and Nostradamus are travelling through time in a stolen sedan chair with a powerful amulet that breaks all known rules of time travel. Tarquin and his friends/uncle are following them trying to get the amulet. They catch up with them on the Titanic where Leo and Nostra have been caught as stowaways and put in the padded cell in the hospital on board. The bad guys are also looking for the amulet, and because earth is part of a confederation of planets, the bad guys - aliens, they can't do their usual method of destroying planets and plundering their resources. So, they disrupt time, and send it down different avenues. In my first book they added a fifth Beatle, Trevor the saxophonist. Tarquin and his friends work for the BIFS (British Intergalactic Foreign Service) and stop the aliens doing this. So, the aliens have decided to save the Titanic and get the amulet that's onboard, unbeknown to them still inside the sedan chair....Phew!

Incidentally, I did mention in my first book that after time travel was discovered, people went back and stopped Hitler, but each time they did, something worse happened. It's as if time is predestined...

 

[The Bloated One]

Agree with Yozh that life, death and consequences are all good topics, but:

1. There's a difference between, These people historically died/are already dead, and, Get the syringe cuz we got some killin' to do.
   1. There's great conflict in the discussion of, Do we let them die? How can we? How can we not?? If we don't let them die like they're supposed to and not because we're going to murder them then XYZ could/will happen.
   2. The difference between purity of timeline/protecting what's right, and committing violence to kill people is monumental and requires a deft hand
2. If this is an escalation of struggle for them--if they've never dealt with life and death situations--then the escalation should be discussed and thought through. Part of YA is opening up to new thoughts, ideas and consequences: the meat is in the conflict of should we/could we
   1. Hunger Games and Katniss killing someone the first time, paired with her PTSD and long term reaction to that violence
   2. Harry and the unforgivable curses
3. The people dying need to be pretty archetypically evil --though I think you can reasonably skirt this via the, They're already dead/They have to die, conflict.

That's a cool story idea, btw.

Minor grammatical call out:



Should be either, 'cried one, as Calbhach grabbed his collar, levering himself up so...' or, ' cried one, as Calbhach grabbed his collar and levered himself up so...'

Colgray,

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I am feeling more confident in using death in my book after reading your comments. Death is not taken for granted, nor do my protagonists profit from it. They have to deal with the consequences in a moralistic way.

Smith's body was never recovered, so one idea was to save him, take him to th future and let him live out his life in anonymity. Except, that he dies in an accident shortly after he arrives! I am not going to do this, but it's a rather crazy idea!

Here's a bit more background I sent to another commentator...

Archie and Calbhach are part of a team of protagonists that work with the main protagonist, Tarquin. To cut a long story short, Leonardo Da Vinci and Nostradamus are travelling through time in a stolen sedan chair with a powerful amulet that breaks all known rules of time travel. Tarquin and his friends/uncle are following them trying to get the amulet. They catch up with them on the Titanic where Leo and Nostra have been caught as stowaways and put in the padded cell in the hospital on board. The bad guys are also looking for the amulet, and because earth is part of a confederation of planets, the bad guys - aliens, they can't do their usual method of destroying planets and plundering their resources. So, they disrupt time, and send it down different avenues. In my first book they added a fifth Beatle, Trevor the saxophonist. Tarquin and his friends work for the BIFS (British Intergalactic Foreign Service) and stop the aliens doing this. So, the aliens have decided to save the Titanic and get the amulet that's onboard, unbeknown to them still inside the sedan chair....Phew!

Incidentally, I did mention in my first book that after time travel was discovered, people went back and stopped Hitler, but each time they did, something worse happened. It's as if time is predestined...

 

[The Bloated One]

Young Adult with violent deaths are common. The Harry Potter series for example. Young Adult with gruesome stuff has been written (Roald Dahl). A Series of Unfortunate Events has lots of allusions to death.

Having people die in the abstract won't be too bad, but I think it depends a lot on how the story is treated and where you want to go with the story, what kind of ethical quandaries you want to explore and if it has any moral lessons.

It does sound like a serious book. The British are able to pull of black humor well and so a British kids book where the passengers of the Titanic go down happily after time travel paradoxes have been explained to them _sounds_ feasible.


I'm missing something here: there are three Titanic characters. The captain and two officers. The Captain is taken care of. Calbhach takes care of one. Rereading the scene it _seems_ like Calbhach has taken care of the other officer previously. Perhaps make explicit mention of this.


This all seems straightforward and a great setup and most of us I'm sure will want to read more. On the flip side, it's not enough words for me to give more detailed feedback.

Msstice,

Thanks for taking time to add your thoughts.

I am a lot happier in using death/history in y book as the protagonists don't profit from it. the aliens try, but they're the bad guys and that is expected.

I kept the piece short s I was worried about using death and examining it's consequences. I'll post a longer piece once I've ironed out a few ideas etc.

Here's some more background...

Archie and Calbhach are part of a team of protagonists that work with the main protagonist, Tarquin. To cut a long story short, Leonardo Da Vinci and Nostradamus are travelling through time in a stolen sedan chair with a powerful amulet that breaks all known rules of time travel. Tarquin and his friends/uncle are following them trying to get the amulet. They catch up with them on the Titanic where Leo and Nostra have been caught as stowaways and put in the padded cell in the hospital on board. The bad guys are also looking for the amulet, and because earth is part of a confederation of planets, the bad guys - aliens, they can't do their usual method of destroying planets and plundering their resources. So, they disrupt time, and send it down different avenues. In my first book they added a fifth Beatle, Trevor the saxophonist. Tarquin and his friends work for the BIFS (British Intergalactic Foreign Service) and stop the aliens doing this. So, the aliens have decided to save the Titanic and get the amulet that's onboard, unbeknown to them still inside the sedan chair....Phew!

Incidentally, I did mention in my first book that after time travel was discovered, people went back and stopped Hitler, but each time they did, something worse happened. It's as if time is predestined...

 

[msstice]

The book sounds hilarious - would love to read it. My daily driver is a Kindle, so a Mobi would be great, thank you!

 

[Brian G Turner]

Just to point out that the Critiques section is for asking for feedback on a piece of work - it is not for promoting other books you may have done. I've removed three instances of promotions from this thread, and bear in mind that promotions are done on the Promotions board, thank you.