Star Wars: Ahsoka - 01:08 - Part Eight: The Jedi, the Witch, and the Warlord

[ctg]

TCW really only starts getting interesting around season 4.

 

[Parson]

Isn't anyone going to mention the CS Lewis homage in the title? I wonder if it points to something? Jedi=Lion (the force for good) Witch=Witch (practioners of evil magic) and Warlord=wardrobe (the means by which these things are brought into conflict.)

 

[ctg]

Isn't anyone going to mention the CS Lewis homage in the title? I wonder if it points to something? Jedi=Lion (the force for good) Witch=Witch (practioners of evil magic) and Warlord=wardrobe (the means by which these things are brought into conflict.)

I knew the reference, but I didn't see the elements in the story. Especially on the Witch part felt a bit underwhelming, and I'm really not sure about Ashoka as the Lion. The WarLord part we already went through.

 

[Parson]

I knew the reference, but I didn't see the elements in the story. Especially on the Witch part felt a bit underwhelming, and I'm really not sure about Ashoka as the Lion. The WarLord part we already went through.

So, somebody just thought it sounded cute and nothing to it?

 

[BT Jones]

Isn't anyone going to mention the CS Lewis homage in the title? I wonder if it points to something? Jedi=Lion (the force for good) Witch=Witch (practioners of evil magic) and Warlord=wardrobe (the means by which these things are brought into conflict.)

I noticed that, @Parson, and thought it was a bit limp - and also uncharacteristic; Star Wars, after all, is something that has never referenced other properties (unlike Marvel, for instance), so it seemed strange to see a tip of the hat to something else (and far better). As for what you read into the choice of title... All I can say is, I didn't get anything from it.

Then again, I didn't get anything from this series, full stop. Ahsoka has been a join-the-dots property that smacks of having been written by AI for all the character development (minimal) and the elements it has added to the broader universe (space whales, night sister witches (done better in the Jedi: Fallen Order video game, BTW)).

Obviously, I respect your opinion, @Parson, but I found Andor comfortably superior in every facet. It was a real story highlighting the oppression of a working class civilisation by an colonial force, and it contains the two best ever speeches / monologues in the entire franchise. Yes, I found it a bit strange in places, and would have chosen a composer would could better capture the Star Wars essence (Stephen Barton, for instance, who nailed the music in the aforementioned Fallen Order, as well as doing likewise with Picard Season 3 for Star Trek).

Andor at least completed a proper story arc with real stakes, and real development of its characters. I honestly don't know what the point of Ahsoka was. Yes, Thrawn has returned, and he was played reasonably well in spite of the poor scripts. Ray Stephenson's conflicted Sith / ex-Jedi was bar far the best character, and it is a crying shame we will not see any more of him. But I found Rosario Dawson flat and unengaging as Ahoska, although i would certainly blame how she was written rather than the actress herself. Sabine's character wasn't much better and had a poorly thought-out arc. Ezra at least had a little charisma, even though he was little more than a Poe Dameron-style Han Solo-lite character.

I'd think that it was just me, and that I have outgrown the franchise, but my 14 year old son has exactly the same problems with the show as I do; we need more from our sci-fi than just the echo of wonder and nostalgia pangs (and what an insult to play the Skywalker theme in a preposterously OTT action scene, when none of the characters deserve such veneration). But that is exactly what SW has become.

And, judging from a lot of opinion I've read (not at the chrons, necessarily), it seems that, for most fans, that is all they are looking for.

 

[Dave]

Someone did point out to me that Ahsoka (the character) actually does nothing to move the plot forward in her own show and I think I agree.

I've still not managed to catch this last episode but on this, I don't think I have such a big problem. On one hand, yes, a show called "Ahsoka" ought to focus around that character as the main protagonist.

The protagonist makes key decisions that affect the plot, primarily influencing the story and propelling it forward...

...but also...

...and is often the character who faces the most significant obstacles.

Ahsoka faces the most significant obstacle of all during this time period, namely that...

The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that’s left of their religion.

As for dropping a lot of stuff at the end that is unexplained within this series, I'll need to see how that works for myself, but it could be very clever if it works on two levels - a puzzle to be explained next season for those who haven't watched the relevant animations, or read the relevant EU books, or played the relevant Games - and a nod to those things for those fanboys who have.

It does make a big difference to the character of Baylan though. His purpose and motives have been unclear throughout this series, and I would have liked some explanation of that, for the majority of us, to have come in this season, rather than just further puzzles.

 

[Parson]

It does make a big difference to the character of Baylan though. His purpose and motives have been unclear throughout this series, and I would have liked some explanation of that, for the majority of us, to have come in this season, rather than just further puzzles.

Yes. I've watched some of the animation but none of the rest and I just often don't have a clue to the back story of the characters.

 

[Dave]

I've watched it now and I would have found no significance to the Baylan Skoll scenes unless it had been mentioned here. However, Peridea itself looks important if it is the source of the magic the Great Mothers use, and presumably some explanation for the Force itself too???

I had a few problems though:

• I thought Sabine left her helmet on Seatos. How come has it again?
• Zombie stormtroopers ought to be unbeatable. These are worse than the normal kind, they just staggered about and then fell over. Some didn’t even bother to shoot.
• After all that explanation in the earlier thread of what a light sabre is and what it can do, how can a magical flaming green sword beat one?
• I still don't know how they navigate Thrawn’s ship back to their galaxy without the calculations that require the destroyed key to compute? And if they could then why not at anytime before?

Even apart from all that, it was a poor ending for the season. I think even Obi Wan Kenobi series was better than this series, because for all of its faults it did have a beginning, middle and an end. This just stopped as if they ran out of money, or script? Or both?

 

[ctg]

I thought Sabine left her helmet on Seatos. How come has it again?

Watch previous episode where the helmet was handed back.

I still don't know how they navigate Thrawn’s ship back to their galaxy without the calculations that require the destroyed key to compute? And if they could then why not at anytime before?

If you watch closely the episode where they do the original calculations, Baylon specifically removed the computers and took them with them. So the data remained, and then in the last few episodes you've seen the droids displaying the map, and most probably doing the calculations again.

 

[Dave]

If you watch closely the episode where they do the original calculations, Baylon specifically removed the computers and took them with them. So the data remained, and then in the last few episodes you've seen the droids displaying the map, and most probably doing the calculations again.

In which case, all the drama about crushing the key and the 'no one can ever follow us' business was precisely that, an overblown, exaggerated stage show, because it was the computers that were the important pieces.

 

[ctg]

In which case, all the drama about crushing the key and the 'no one can ever follow us' business was precisely that, an overblown, exaggerated stage show, because it was the computers that were the important pieces.

They only have one copy, and that's in those databanks. I'm certain Thrawn doesn't want to return, but it's not the same thing to NightSisters. The HyperSpace Ring is theirs.

 

[Rodders]

In Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy, I never got the impression that he was a power hungry megalomaniac in the same way as the Emperor, so i'm not sure he'd restart total war on his return.

 

[Dave]

So, can someone now help to deconstruct this episode/series for us who don't know please:

I'm trying to work if this means we'll see the defeat of Thrawn in a later series, or if it means Thrawn did in fact become part of the First Order (or maybe the Sith fleet).

I'm certain Thrawn doesn't want to return, but it's not the same thing to NightSisters.

Because Thrawn would like the Empire to return, but it cannot without the Emperor to lead it, in which case you get the First Order?

But Baylan and the Great Mothers want much more; they want to bring down the whole galactic order to return to some ancient magical driven society represented by (The Ones) Mortis Gods? This makes Baylan much more dangerous than Thrawn?

So, Thrawn isn't that important at all. Hera and Ezra can deal with his single ship. That's why Ahsoka is so cool about being left behind? She can sense that Peridea is the place she needs to be?

But aren't The Ones, and their hokey old religion, just as dead, if not more extinct, than the Jedi are?

I understand that Peridea was the homeworld of the Noti and once the centre of the Witch Kingdom of the Dathomiri, but they are long gone.
What makes Baylan think he can tap into this power? The Great Mothers only touched upon that power but had been there longer.
What does he have that others did not? He's just a second or third rate Force user.

"What happens when we find Thrawn?"
"For some, war. For others…a new beginning."
"And for us?"
"Power. Such as you've never dreamed."

However, Baylan has obviously now decided that it was way too much power for Shin to handle; that she cannot share his destiny, and he has cast his apprentice adrift? He assumes she is dead now, yes?

If he can tap into all this ancient power, why can't he know that Shin, Ahsoka and Sabine have not left? Is he just too consumed with his destiny and himself in general? Being so egocentric is not generally a good sign that people have a handle on things.

 

[ctg]

Because Thrawn would like the Empire to return, but it cannot without the Emperor to lead it, in which case you get the First Order?

No, as far as I know, he's not part of the Palpatine fanboys. He wants to be the head all on his own.

But Baylan and the Great Mothers want much more; they want to bring down the whole galactic order to return to some ancient magical driven society represented by (The Ones) Mortis Gods? This makes Baylan much more dangerous than Thrawn?

Great Mothers want to bring back their people. Baylan wants to be a big in Force. Different goals.

But aren't The Ones, and their hokey old religion, just as dead, if not more extinct, than the Jedi are?

Force beings aren't dead. They are ultimate expressions of the Force. If you look at those mountain statues, you'll see that the Daughter is grumbled and doesn't have a head, because she lives in Ashoka and her ultimate expression is the Moray Owl, you'll see in the episode. Father and the Son are a different, and I'm not sure if I'd want to go on talking about them at this point.

 

[The Crawling Chaos]

 

[Rodders]

I just saw this episode and i have to say that i struggled with it's "style over substance" story telling. I'm delighted to say that i enjoyed it more than i thought i would, though.

With Thrawn back in the galaxy and set to rain havoc on the New Republic and, if i'm not mistaken, isn't Dathomir a dead planet now? The Mothers will respond badly to that, unless resurrection is their plan. What is in those caskets? I'm also looking forward to see how Ahsoka et al will return to home. Baylen's ending was very enigmatic too and i wonder what is calling him.

I do think it's setting things up for a very interesting second season.

The Night Troopers were a bit too much, IMO and i think the Jedi: Fallen Order game did it much better.

I thought the music had some interesting choices and i enjoyed the piano track near the end.

I also enjoyed seeing the 8T-88 style robot from the Jedi Knight game. A nice nod, IMO.

I think too many Jedi survived the purge and i think that the Star Wars galaxy has gotten too small.

 

[ctg]

With Thrawn back in the galaxy and set to rain havoc on the New Republic and, if i'm not mistaken, isn't Dathomir a dead planet now

Purge doesn't mean that everything gets wiped out. No, the flora, fauna and all the infrastructure is there. Count Dooku wasn't that crazy or powerful to be able to obliterate everything. And for years, just like with the Mandalorians I said that they are out there, that their race isn't doomed. Now it's proven, Purge isn't complete if it doesn't include everyone and getting everyone is a humongous task.

 

[The Crawling Chaos]

Apologies for polluting the thread with those silly pictures. But I do find them funny.

 

[ctg]

Apologies for polluting the thread with those silly pictures. But I do find them funny.

You know that they cut a lot of material, including a lot of conversation between Ezra and Sabine that would have explained more why the Grand Admiral was such a pussy. And what Ezra had been doing in the past. It just didn't make it. The zombie actors weren't also told that they were zombies. Instead, a direction was given. But it proves the point, the endings are as important as the beginnings.

 

[BAYLOR]

Apologies for polluting the thread with those silly pictures. But I do find them funny.

View attachment 111069

By any chance Is there one with with Thrawn playing the game Battleship?