Flat Earth/Round Earth

[dask]

The following quote is from chapter 8 in Nathaniel Philbrick’s tale about the sinking of the whale ship Essex In The Heart Of The Sea. The survivors are in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean when he makes this statement:

Is this true? I thought one of the reasons silly people believe the Earth is flat is because you are not supposed to be able to see the Earth’s curvature looking out to sea. Otherwise why believe the world is flat?

 

[JunkMonkey]

If you are in the middle of an ocean, or standing on an open flat plain with nothing but the surface you are on in sight, then you are standing in the centre of a big circle ( the edge of which is the limit of what you can see IE. the horizon). Circles are a closed curve. Therefore the horizon must be curved. Maybe that's what he means.

 

[Victoria Silverwolf]

Article on this topic:

Is it Possible to See the Curvature of the Earth from Earth?

Since the beginning of time, people have believed the Earth is flat. But if seeing really is believing, here's a few steps you can take to see the curve.

outpostmagazine.com

Summary: To truly see the curvature of the Earth, you need to be at a high elevation.

 

[dask]

Thank you both. I suspected as much. But just out of curiosity I asked my AI program, Copilot, the following question:

“if you are on a small boat in the middle of the ocean with no land in sight, could be able to see the curvature of the Earth?”

and it replied with this:

 

[Pyan]

"...our planet's spherical nature!"?

This is an AI, yes?

 

[THX1138]

We go on ocean cruses every year or so and from the ships mid and upper decks you can indeed see the curvature of the earth when you are on calm seas. It's pretty cool really.

 

[Swank]

The author is not describing the impressions of the characters, he is using his knowledge of the world to write an interesting sentence.

 

[hitmouse]

You certainly do not see the curvature of the earth from a small boat at sea level though. You do see the sea appear to rise up to the horizon at eye height. Possibly the author is imagining looking up from inside the bottom of a gigantic bowl.

 

[Elckerlyc]

"Like the bottom of a shiny blue bowl."
That is the curvature he describes. The curvature of the horizon around you, the visible world with you in its center, not the curvature of the Earth itself.

 

[paranoid marvin]

"...our planet's spherical nature!"?

This is an AI, yes?

I noticed that too. Integration before assimilation.

 

[Dave]

Even from a beach near a port, on a calm day you can watch really big ships sailing away into the distance. When they reach the horizon you will slowly see them disappear from the bottom up, until only the funnels and masts remain. If the Earth was flat then they would instead get smaller and smaller and dimmer. Some of that is also due to heat effects too though.

 

[JunkMonkey]

Even from a beach near a port, on a calm day you can watch really big ships sailing away into the distance. When they reach the horizon you will slowly see them disappear from the bottom up, until only the funnels and masts remain. If the Earth was flat then they would instead get smaller and smaller and dimmer. Some of that is also due to heat effects too though.

You should see some of the hoops they (flerfs) contort themselves though to explain away this age old, and easily repeatable observation.

After they have given up denying it happens (how many of their target audience lives near the coast or have the patience to watch a boat for more than five minutes?) they will pivot to the undeniable fact that things appear smaller the further away from you - and by consequence nearer the horizon.

'Perspective' appears to be the current rote 'explanation'. As far as I can fathom it, their thinking is that because the bottom of a boat is nearer the horizon than the top the bottom of it appears smaller. It has not 'gone behind' anything; it's just too far away for you to see with a naked eye. Any obvious questions that are then asked will be answered with a barrage of images with lots of lines drawn on it showing nothing but the average flerf understands perspective as some variation of the crepuscular ray 'proof' that places the sun just behind the bike shed, or three miles high, or wherever the 'converging' sunbeams meet.

They really are that dumb.

 

[AllanR]

Ship Sailing over the Horizon - Wolfram Demonstrations Project

As a ship sails away from your vantage point on shore, it appears not only to get smaller with distance but also to sink below the horizon, the lower parts of the ship disappearing first. This is a consequence of the curvature of the Earth. Here is a Demonstration that simulates this phenomenon...

demonstrations.wolfram.com

 

[Dave]

Somehow, I don't think those who don't believe this will be swayed by watching a "simulation" either.

(how many of their target audience lives near the coast or have the patience to watch a boat for more than five minutes?)

Without making any stereotyping, some of them must have sat in some deckchair sunbathing on some beach somewhere before, and for some considerable amount of time?

 

[Elckerlyc]

It is all the Moon's fault. If it was turning around its axis, as any normal celestial ought to do, it would be clear it is a sphere. But as it is only ever showing us the same side you could be 'fooled' into thinking it is a disc. That is, if you are susceptible to such notions and refuse to use you brain.

 

[JunkMonkey]

Without making any stereotyping, some of them must have sat in some deckchair sunbathing on some beach somewhere before, and for some considerable amount of time?

Which only goes to show you can lead a flerf to water but can't make it think.

 

[Swank]

It is all the Moon's fault. If it was turning around its axis, as any normal celestial ought to do, it would be clear it is a sphere. But as it is only ever showing us the same side you could be 'fooled' into thinking it is a disc. That is, if you are susceptible to such notions and refuse to use you brain.

The moon is turning around its axis.


Flat earth people aren't dumb. They just think there is something to be gained with their preposterously contrarian position, which they can't shut up about.

Actually ignorant people have little reason to discuss things they know nothing about.

 

[JunkMonkey]

The moon is turning around its axis.


Flat earth people aren't dumb. They just think there is something to be gained with their preposterously contrarian position, which they can't shut up about.

Actually ignorant people have little reason to discuss things they know nothing about.

A lot of the more vocal of them are just plain grifters making money off vulnerable people. They know the world is spheroid but just innit for the money. Some are using it as a gateway to entice people further down whatever delusionist rabbit hole they live down. But a lot of them are genuinely thick, manipulatable, cannon fodder for the war on science and reason that a lot of people are waging for various political, religious, and other idiological reasons.

Ignorant people have little reason to discuss things they know nothing about but they're too ignorant to know they don't know what they are talking about - and the ****ing internet has given their voices equal access to the world's eyes and ears.

 

[Dave]

Okay, I apologise that I think I started this, but let's stop now, or else I'll have to close the thread if it strays any further into current affairs. The OP wanted to know if it was actually possible to see the curvature of the Earth and that was well answered. I for one didn't fully understand what Tidal Locking actually meant, vis-à-vis the Moon slowly rotating at exactly the same speed as it's orbit (23.7 days) so I've learnt something there. There is already a thread on Conspiracy Theories so we don't really need a second thread on those.

 

[dask]

I was thinking about paranoid marvin’s comment “integration before assimilation” (post #10). Is this why the Copilot AI got it so wrong about being able to see the curvature of the earth at sea level when evidence overwhelmingly proves otherwise? When posed with a question does AI search both legitimate and not so legitimate sources for what it perceives as pertinent information, then shuffle it together like a deck of cards dealing a hand which may or may not be a winner?