Potential Chapter 1 (~1.5k words)

[Ambriel]

This is the same book, I just went with a completely different start after working with friend of mine to come up with a more coherent story.

Chapter 1
We stood facing each other, swords up in the guard position. Each watching for the slightest motion to indicate where the first strike was going to go. Our eyes simultaneously taking stock of where the tip of the other’s blade was, how our feet were moving as we slowly, painstakingly circled each other waiting for the first move.

He struck first, his blade slashed at my shoulder, an easy move to block. I took the chance to counter attack. I brought my sword down in a slash at his midsection that crossed my body causing me to finish the swing with one hand. It was a risky move because it left me open to attack if I wasn’t quick enough.

The tip of his sword whistled past my head, I leaned back just in time, and it barely missed me. I quickly brought my sword back up to guard myself, after my previous slash missed its mark, which was his ribs.As I brought my sword back up to parry, my opponent's blade sent a shower of sparks off its edge from a powerful overhand strike. I pushed up against his blade, the scraping sound filling the room as I forced his blade around in a half circle leaving him open. I used the momentum of my swing to bring my blade over my head and go for a sweep into his ribs. A light tinkling sound filled the room as I caught his open side with my blade.

I watched the tip of his sword come back in a flick toward my ribs but at the last second it changed directions trying to answer my strike with his own on my thigh, it was a feint. I knew there was no way I could get my blade into the path of his strike which meant I had two choices. I could either take the hit to the thigh or take my chances stepping back. I took the step back and tried to figure out where my opponent’s next slash was going to go. I was too late, damn he’s fast, I felt the tip of his sword pressed against my neck. He saw my muscles tense as I started to move.

“Ah ah, I got you.” He said, pressing the tip against my throat.

I lowered my sword to my side indicating my submission. “Nice feint, I didn’t feel like going home with a bruise on my thigh. My fiancee worries enough about me with all the other bruises.”

“Tell her you are sparing with an ER doc, I can fix almost anything I do to you.” He said with a laugh.

“You know, you are supposed to talk about what’s bothering you while you’re trying to beat my ass.” I laughed and patted him on the back as I moved to set my sword down on the rack.
“Yeah, but I had to concentrate to keep up with you. Where’d you learn to fight like that?” He asked, still trying to catch his breath.

“I’m a long time student at Valkyries. That dojo down the street. The owner's husband, Valerie’s husband, is an old friend of mine. I’ve been studying with her for a long time.” I spotted the look of recognition on his face. “Oh, you know her?”
“Well not her specifically, but I’ve been training there. With one of the other instructors, they told me I wasn’t ready to train with her yet.” He shot me a look of jealousy.

“Oh, um, yeah her assistants are kinda pompous. I’m the only one who’s been training with her longer than them, and they don’t like that my patients get private lessons with her after a certain period of time with me. I’ve been training with her since she opened the dojo.” I said in an effort to mollify that look.

An outside observer would have seen a fearsome sword fight between two men clad in sleeveless chainmail shirts and padded pants and undershirts. One that looked like he could be the stunt double for Nathan Fillion, my friend Ezekeiel Evans “Zeke”, and the other who looked like a mix of Justin Long and Keanu Reeves, me William Greyson Graham “Grey”.


“Let’s get cleaned up and head to Leo’s, I’m sure he’s got a new elixir for us to try.” Moving toward the locker room door so I could go shower. “And I bet the others are waiting for us by now.

Zeke and I arrived at Leo’s Pub to find all of our friends already there. His wife Katherine “Kat” who is a passable double for Melissa Rauch, my fiance Alexa Jean “A.J” who looks a bit like Isolda Dychauk, Mark and Val Anderson looking like Jonathan Roberts from Dancing with the Stars and Milly Alcock, Colton Rhys King IV “Colt” a potential Justin Timberlake stunt double, I know pretentious right, our friend Simon who we all call Syrul a made up Vulcan name because we can’t call him Spock a taller more handsome John C. Reilly, and of course the owner Mason Leonard Thomas “Leo” who looked like a slightly younger Joe Mategna sitting behind the bar.

“Hey everyone, how're things going here?” I asked as I approached the bar. “Leo, any new concoctions for us to try?”

Leo nodded as he pointed at the glasses on the bar. “Don’t ask what’s in it just trust me.” He declared with a wry look.

I’ve learned after years of being a patron, that those words from Leo are dangerous but usually lead to a delicious drink.
Everyone took a sip and a chorus of “mmm amazing Leo” and “Wow, what is in this!?” tumbled from everyone's mouths.

He just laughed, “I told you not to ask, it’s a new secret recipe, I’ve been perfecting it for a week now.

The door to the bar banged open as a group of about ten backwards hatted, pop collared, members of the “if you hit me my daddy will sue you club” came barging rowdily into the bar. Immediately eyeing up the ladies in our group. The three of them looked like they had been plucked out of that redhead festival that takes place in Ireland every year. Kat with blue eyes, Val with green eyes, and A.J. with the exceedingly rare violet eyes that match a dark purple amethyst stone.


I caught the eye of the other guys and gave them a look that said get ready, we all know the type. We’d all been friends long enough to be able to have full length conversations with just a look. Each of us, with a significant other tapped her on the shoulder and muttered “don’t get involved unless you have to.

“Wow, three redheads in one bar, that’s a pretty rare event. Hey, sweetheart does the carpet match the drapes?” The, if possible, douchiest one said looking at Kat. Oh, you picked the wrong one, I thought to myself.

Zeke bristled as he took a half step away from the bar. “That’s my wife you’re talking to, you might want to watch your mouth.” He gently shrugged off Kat’s hand on his arm.

“Or what old man, you think you and the geriatric genteels can take us? We are just here to have some fun.” He said with a lascivious grin at Kat, A.J., and Val.

“Let it pass Zeke, these little fucksticks aren’t worth it. They know, even though they outnumber us they can’t actually do anything. They’re all bark and no bite.” I put my hand gently on his shoulder as we turned back to the bar. I caught the glare from the one who had been yapping out of the corner of my eye and knew this wasn’t over.

They eventually quieted down a bit, but they kept ordering drinks. Shot after shot after shot of Blue Flame Moonshine, the highest proof Old Smoky makes. Oh, this isn’t going to end well, I thought with a roll of my eyes. I kept an eye on them, I noticed Leo and the rest doing the same out of the corner of my eye.


Our little group is a mashup of small business owners. I have a small psychology and physical therapy practice, Colt is a physicist who examines car accidents for a living, Mark is a public relations specialist he runs the advertising for all of our small businesses, Val is the owner of dojo where she does a little bit of everything, Zeke is a doctor in the local ER, Kat is a locally famous artist with her own gallery, A.J. is a real estate agent, and Simon is the financial adviser for all of us and of course Leo owns the bar we all hang out in after work.

A short time later the girls all decided they needed to go to the ladies room, and that’s when the fight started.

 

[Bowler1]

1st section is we and author narration, going in character in the next section - a shift in style that's very noticeable.

The sword fighting was ok for me and ended before getting too long.

You have thoughts from the character in following paragraphs and sections with very detailed descriptions of what people look like, which was too much description and too many characters to keep track of. I felt you were attempting to introduce too much too soon. The bar scene felt predictable while not doing anything to let me know what your hook/storyline is. Why, what etc of your plot has not been given, it's just a bar brawl so why should I read on?

I don't feel it's close enough to the character, as in their thoughts and feelings with author narration getting in the way as well. For me, you keep switching from character to descriptions to world building and back again, while not giving any clues to the overall plot to come. More control is needed I think which will come with practice and feedback. Take time to edit and be critical of what you're doing and always ask, is this needed?

Keep going, a lot of what you've done is good and was interesting.

 

[Ambriel]

1st section is we and author narration, going in character in the next section - a shift in style that's very noticeable.

The sword fighting was ok for me and ended before getting too long.

You have thoughts from the character in following paragraphs and sections with very detailed descriptions of what people look like, which was too much description and too many characters to keep track of. I felt you were attempting to introduce too much too soon. The bar scene felt predictable while not doing anything to let me know what your hook/storyline is. Why, what etc of your plot has not been given, it's just a bar brawl so why should I read on?

I don't feel it's close enough to the character, as in their thoughts and feelings with author narration getting in the way as well. For me, you keep switching from character to descriptions to world building and back again, while not giving any clues to the overall plot to come. More control is needed I think which will come with practice and feedback. Take time to edit and be critical of what you're doing and always ask, is this needed?

Keep going, a lot of what you've done is good and was interesting.

Thank you for the response. I do have another 1500 words written and going off what I have researched I have another 2000 words potentially to fill in more details.

Is the switch from narration to past tense first person at the beginning a bad thing? I thought the switch would be okay because the narration was a brief description of the setting.

I can rewrite and cut back on the number of characters introduced right away, perhaps 5 instead of 9 of the 10 that I’m going to have.

Should I post the other 1500 words to let you finish the chapter? Could that help?

 

[Bowler1]

There are no fixed rules to writing, only what someone finds entertaining. Let a few others comment and see what happens.

 

[Ambriel]

There are no fixed rules to writing, only what someone finds entertaining. Let a few others comment and see what happens.

You’ve actually given me an idea of how I can work in a hunt about what’s to come and why you should be interested in the character.

 

[The Judge]

Sorry, this really didn’t work for me.

I can see why you think it’s a better idea to start with some action, especially after the comments for your first version, but I see four separate problems here.

• a film can start with a fight because it’s immediately visceral, but it’s difficult for prose to convey the same excitement unless the writing is very good, and trying to track who does what when can too often feel just like a list of things
• when we haven’t met the character and we know nothing about him, we don’t have any reason to worry about what happens so there's no tension (and writing in first person pretty much guarantees nothing bad is likely, anyway)
• after 5 paragraphs it's made clear that any tension you do deliver was false anyway, since they were only sparring – you’ve deliberately deceived the reader in an attempt to make a grabby opening, so in my view lost any goodwill you’d hoped to earn
• the fight shows next to nothing about the characters, plot, themes, setting or atmosphere – we don’t even know what kind of swords they’re using for goodness sake! -- and could be deleted without in any way affecting the actual story

Frankly, to my mind your original opening paragraph was far more intriguing than this, and the voice far, far better.

(I feel a tad hypocritical here as in one of my WiPs, the book’s second scene introduces a main character involved in a fight to the death, but I made sure to give some detail about him and the situation before I got involved in the fight mechanics, hoping in that way to get readers to sympathise with him, plus for him it’s the inciting incident on which his story arc depends. I also later have him involved in a sparring scene, but it’s clear from the outset they’re only practising so no false tension.)

For me, the second scene in the bar was a little better, though for my taste it ought to have been hived off with a scene break, and from the last line it looks like something interesting might be about to happen. (Though I hope it will be more than merely another fight, and it really ought to trigger the novel’s inciting incident.) But I agree with Bowler that you have far too many people introduced here, and for me the descriptions are largely self-defeating since I had no idea who several of the look-alikes were, so you were simply adding yet more names to the mix. It's also very flabby and to my mind needs drastic pruning -- there are too many words which aren't propelling the story forward.

I won’t nit-pick as this is still very much an early draft, but a couple of things for you to watch out for:

• I was too late, damn he’s fast, I felt the tip of his sword -- you’ve changed tense here with that “damn he’s fast” moving from past tense to present then back to past. Personally, I don’t think a parenthetical comment of that kind helps in this situation, but if you’re going to use them put them into italics in a separate line to show it’s him thinking
• “Ah ah, I got you.” He said, pressing the tip against my throat. -- wrong punctuation. Where you’re using a dialogue tag, it’s a comma and lower case eg “Ah ah, I got you,” he said, Jo has a post about this here The Toolbox -- The Important Bits

As Bowler says, keep going! We all start off with scenes like this, that don't do quite what we hoped. Revise, edit, and always bear in mind that every paragraph, every sentence, should be there for a reason -- they should all either push the story forward, or show characterisation or atmosphere, and the best will do all three.

Should I post the other 1500 words to let you finish the chapter? Could that help?

Leave it another few days, and take on board all and any comments you get for this piece (eg about dialogue tag) and then start another thread.

 

[Ambriel]

Frankly, to my mind your original opening paragraph was far more intriguing than this, and the voice far, far better.

The opening paragraph inquiring of the reader about being a nerd and that? Or the part about him starting to figure out his magic?

I also started another chapter that could be chapter one instead. It starts right he gets the mcguffin that he gets his powers from.

 

[THX1138]

Sword fights are fast and are difficult to describe accurately in writing. I did collegiate fencing for some time in foil, Epee and Saber and it's mostly instinctive.

You live here in the states, so are you familiar with the SCA? Sounds like you might be. Yes, you train, but the fights are fast. The best way to describe one, I feel, would be in Flash Fiction style. (As far as describing training or fights.)

Anticipating the strike, I quickly positioned my shield to block, and as the blow came, my sword came down onto his forearm. And in an instant my opponent was on the ground from the shoulder ram I gave his shield.

Or something like that. Now get back to building up the MC for the readers and bring us inside his head.
Just my two bits.

Other than that, you're doing good!

 

[Ambriel]

You live here in the states, so are you familiar with the SCA? Sounds like you might be.

I do live in the states, I am drawing a blank on what the SCA is, and googling provided no answer by way of providing too many answers.

 

[THX1138]

Here you go.Kingdoms - SCA.org

Go on YouTube and check out some of their fights. Might help some.

 

[Yozh]

The sword fight description has potential, however it is hampered by the choice to keep the fact that it’s sparring practice a secret. That may have been a deliberate choice designed to artificial raise the “stakes” in hopes of increasing reader interest, but IMO it is counterproductive in two ways: First, this choice means you can’t fill in true details of scene, setting, characters, or even much physical description of the outfits & weapons, and you also can’t just make up false details, so you are left with motive-less fight in “white space,” and the only thing to draw in reader is the action itself, so it needs to be really spot-on. Second, reader could feel let down, annoyed, or betrayed by the misdirection.

What if you still open the chapter with the sparring scene, but play it straight with the readers and use this to set up who the characters are, instead of doing that afterwards in dialog?

Agree with others that you can cut out all the comparisons to various movie actors. Actually the whole second half about big group of friends walking into bar and arguing with rude randos was not very interesting. This sort of thing might work better in film or TV, on the page it’s a lot of words.

 

[Ambriel]

Agree with others that you can cut out all the comparisons to various movie actors.

I am stuggling with how to integrate the description of characters into the story. I've read plenty in my lifetime but I am drawing a blank on how exactly the writers have done it. With the way I am writing, which has presented as past tense first person, I am at a loss of how to go about it without the character sounding conceited.

 

[The Judge]

The opening paragraph inquiring of the reader about being a nerd and that?

Yes, that very first one. It wasn't perfect by any means, but the voice is there and it does create some interest.

I am stuggling with how to integrate the description of characters into the story. I've read plenty in my lifetime but I am drawing a blank on how exactly the writers have done it. With the way I am writing, which has presented as past tense first person, I am at a loss of how to go about it without the character sounding conceited.

There's no need for a lengthy description of anyone -- if you were regaling a friend about a funny incident, you'd surely spend time on what happened, not go into detail of what the other person looked like.

I have read novels where every character is given a paragraph description when first appearing, but quite apart from interrupting the flow of the story, I've never seen the point. I certainly don't remember any of it unless it's pertinent, so it doesn't help me recall who is who. Choose one or two things, and use the description to show character where possible -- so if a man has a Byronic appearance because of the way he styles his hair** it might suggest he's an artistic sort, or you might subvert that by making him very unartistic. And having another character say eg "So, when are the Byronic locks getting chopped off?" shows not only what the first chap looks like, but also what the second person thinks and how he speaks.

The only exception I'd make about description is in the case of skin colour/ethnicity -- get that out quickly as if does tend to be something people can latch onto, and it prevents readers being upset when 100 pages later a guy they thought was white or black turns out not to be. But avoid all similies to food, especially for people of colour, as it can be seen as demeaning. (Though again, if a character says "She's coffee-coloured" then that shows how that person thinks, for good or ill.)


** I mean of the thick, wavy, shoulder-length flowing kind, though in fact the only images of Byron I've seen show him with short back and sides, so go figure!

 

[Toby Frost]

Most of the time, you don't need to give detailed descriptions. Firstly, a lot of actors look fairly similar, in that they're just unusually attractive people and are made up for the particular role they're in. You might want to spend a lot of time explaining that character X looks like actress Y, but at the end of the day it's easier if people can make up their own images. Generally one or two notable visual things stand out (short, red hair, a limp, etc). This actually helps draw the reader in because it encourages them to come up with their own idea.

Also, descriptions often carry mental images. Without going too far into comedy stereotype territory, if I read that a character is a scientist, say, I won't expect him to be huge and muscular unless I'm told. Similarly, I've got a vague image of, say, a truck driver pre-made in my mind. He might or might not wear a baseball cap, but he's not wearing a tuxedo. Also, you can tell what a character probably looks like by the way they act: a guy who complains about his bad knees might be tough, but he probably won't be young.

My advice on starting a story would be (1) start where the break with normality begins and (2) don't introduce too many people at once. The break from normality could be something really mild like receiving an email or stepping off a boat, or something massive. A cowboy rides into town or a client walks into a PI's office. In terms of people, I'd stagger them arriving so that they are distinctive. That way you'll get more room to describe them doing stuff, which is often how character is conveyed.

 

[Bowler1]

A writing style that works is like finding your voice for a singer. It takes time and there will be a lot of bum notes before you start singing. You're in the right place to learn, but it takes time.

Keep trying, you'll get there.

 

[Ambriel]

Yes, that very first one. It wasn't perfect by any means, but the voice is there and it does create some interest.

Did you mean this? "Have you ever read a fantasy book with magic and thought “why don’t they try something else?”, or “that’s really unimaginative’, or “I would have done…”? TO BE CLEAR I am talking about the characters in the book with that line of questioning NOT the authors. Have you ever wondered what it would be like to use the force from Star Wars, or the will and the word from The Belgariad, or a wand and spells like from Harry Potter, or even a crazy mashup of occult insanity like that arrogant scouser John Constantine? Are you really a nerd if you haven't? Be honest you and your friends have probably discussed this at length as have I and mine. Here is another opportunity for you to do it again, this time to my friends and I. Believe you me, I’ve done my fair share of Monday morning quarterbacking, but let me tell you the situation is a hell of a lot different when you’re actually in it. At this point you are probably wondering who the hell I am, how I know that it’s different, and what in the world I’m talking about."
Or what came after it in my first critique post.
Sorry if I seem especially dense.

 

[Oligonicella]

I do live in the states, I am drawing a blank on what the SCA is, and googling provided no answer by way of providing too many answers.

Society for Creative Anachronism. Strictly depends on where you are and which group as to its worth. I would not use vids of their plywood shield/rattan stick fights for anything or their wobbly rattan 'spears'. (Been a while. Hopefully they've evolved.)

Start with these instead:

Get rid of the shower of sparks. Swords don't spark. Also get rid of any 'binding and holding' for any length of time (seconds). Dangerous position to put yourself in. You want to glance your opponent's strike off and away allowing you to rotate and take advantage.

There is a lot of dancing around in non-massive fights. Tournamental is linear, combat is in the round so there's usually an attempt for best position.

The contact exchange itself is pretty furious so "I knew there was no way I could get my blade into the path of his strike which meant I had two choices. I could either take the hit to the thigh or take my chances stepping back." is not going to happen in the tenth second that repose would take. In combat you don't think with your mind, you think with your eyes. I keep the mental verbiage on the approaches and that and any action clippy.

I pulled some text:

​

He saw Nodrata look over into the crowd and nod.
sh*t. That'a was a signal.
Nodrata started a quick circle to the right and deRao knew it was a set up. He glanced from the corner of his eye and caught a man come out of the crowd on his left. He was holding a rapier.
deRao bounced to his left, putting a little distance between himself and Nodrata and forcing his new opponent to turn from a forward attack to scuttling left and away from him. Once the man overcame his surprise at deRao's tactic, he closed, but that was exactly what deRao wanted. He had circled enough that the man now became an obstacle to Nodrata and he lunged forward and pricked the man's knee easily. This was a student, not a teacher.
The man yelped, but didn't go down and deRao continued his circle, turning to face Nodrata. He looked him in the eye and smiled. "I saw that."
Nodrata tried to reverse the circle around deRao's left, but deRao simply scuttled sideways and used the crowd to force a stop.



My ¢

 

[THX1138]

Society for Creative Anachronism. Strictly depends on where you are and which group as to its worth. I would not use vids of their plywood shield/rattan stick fights for anything or their wobbly rattan 'spears'. (Been a while. Hopefully they've evolved.)

Start with these instead:

Agree. The SCA is OK for what they are. Very honor bound too.
My suggestion is just for reference only, not historical. And Ambriel's writing has an RPG/SCA feel to it.
My point being, the fight is over fast as training helps to bring out instinct.

 

[Culhwch]

I am stuggling with how to integrate the description of characters into the story. I've read plenty in my lifetime but I am drawing a blank on how exactly the writers have done it.

Grab a book and have a look.

There's also threads in the workshop like this one that might be of help: The challenge -- physical description as a key to character

 

[The Judge]

Did you mean this? "Have you ever read a fantasy book with magic and thought “why don’t they try something else?”, or “that’s really unimaginative’, or “I would have done…”?

Yes, that one.

TO BE CLEAR ( ) I'm not saying that is actually how you should start the novel, simply that to my mind it was preferable to the version you've given on this thread. But a segue from something like this "Have you ever..." paragraph to eg "It all started when me and the guys went for our usual Saturday night drink." with you then proceeding straight to the inciting incident is certainly one way of beginning the story that might work.

BUT there are dozens of ways you could start chapter one, and you might have to work your way through a good many of them to find out which is the best. Indeed, in due course when you're a lot further on with the story, if you're still unsure where to start you could put some different versions up on one thread here and ask for opinions as to which is best. (Not yet, though. I really think you need to get on with the story now, as when you're a little way in, it may well then become obvious to you where the start is.)