Writing/adapting specifically for audiobook

[HareBrain]

Isn't that presupposing the first draft is perfect?

Of course -- aren't yours?

I guess I'm talking about the limited circumstance in which someone feels they need an action there as an identifier but wouldn't have put one in for any other reason. I've been there myself: I don't want to break up an intense pacy conversation; the characters are just standing there; there's nothing for them to do but talk. I've also read ones that I can't see any point to except as identifiers.

 

[Culhwch]

Of course -- aren't yours?

Um. Yes.

I guess I'm talking about the limited circumstance in which someone feels they need an action there as an identifier but wouldn't have put one in for any other reason. I've been there myself: I don't want to break up an intense pacy conversation; the characters are just standing there; there's nothing for them to do but talk. I've also read ones that I can't see any point to except as identifiers.

If they feel they need it, then I'd say it is necessary - but in the sense that it was necessary to identify the speaker, but not necessary to describe the action.

So - necessarily unnecessary.

 

[HareBrain]

If they feel they need it, then I'd say it is necessary - but in the sense that it was necessary to identify the speaker, but not necessary to describe the action

Necessary in a written text, yes -- my point originally was that these actions (and these alone) could be removed in an audio adaptation, since (given a decent voice actor, etc etc) their only purpose would be redundant. Obviously a good writer would try to make sure they did more than just identifying, but sometimes this is difficult given pacing etc.

I admit, on reflection, this would apply to probably very few.

 

[Ursa major]

I perhaps haven't been paying full attention, and that this has been mentioned before...

...but don't characters often speak in ways (such as the words they use and how they order them) that mean they don't require an accent or tag to identify them, at least to the extent that they don't sound (even on the page) like the other(s) in the conversation?

 

[Culhwch]

Necessary in a written text, yes -- my point originally was that these actions (and these alone) could be removed in an audio adaptation, since (given a decent voice actor, etc etc) their only purpose would be redundant. Obviously a good writer would try to make sure they did more than just identifying, but sometimes this is difficult given pacing etc.

I admit, on reflection, this would apply to probably very few.

Sorry, I kinda forgot we'd moved from the other thread to this one about audio books!!

 

[Steve Harrison]

I wish this had popped up a few weeks ago, as a local community radio station here in Sydney recently broadcast a reading of my first novel in 22 daily half hour parts. (Their primary audience is hospital patients and the disabled).

Their policy is to read a book exactly as written, so there was no written audio version of the novel. My wife and I listened to the whole thing, which was so well read I forgot I'd written it!

All the dialogue tags were still there and while the reader performed the accents and other voice nuances I included in the work, I didn't notice those tags at all, just like when I read.

I'm now waiting for a copy so I can listen again with this thread in mind.

 

[Culhwch]

I wish this had popped up a few weeks ago, as a local community radio station here in Sydney recently broadcast a reading of my first novel in 22 daily half hour parts. (Their primary audience is hospital patients and the disabled).

Their policy is to read a book exactly as written, so there was no written audio version of the novel. My wife and I listened to the whole thing, which was so well read I forgot I'd written it!

All the dialogue tags were still there and while the reader performed the accents and other voice nuances I included in the work, I didn't notice those tags at all, just like when I read.

I'm now waiting for a copy so I can listen again with this thread in mind.

I'm not an avid audiobook listener, but I've listened to a few over the years, and I agree - I never had any issue with the tags being too 'visible'.

 

[HareBrain]

All the dialogue tags were still there and while the reader performed the accents and other voice nuances I included in the work, I didn't notice those tags at all, just like when I read.

That's interesting. Can you remember if the "saids" were de-emphasised somehow? (By being hurried over, or spoken more quietly.)

 

[paranoid marvin]

I think it's a case that if you are conciously listening out for them, they will seem more noticeable. But in my opinion, 'saids' are invisible (and inaudible).

 

[Cat's Cradle]

Just a few thoughts from an Audible addict - not sure if this is of interest.
I can't read a physical book these days because of issues with my eyes. But I have to always have a book going, so 7 days a week I have headphones on and Audible playing… on days when my wife is working I might listen for 6-7 hours.

In my experience, 'said' can become incredibly obtrusive and invasive of the reading experience. There's been a book where it was so bad that I had to quit listening (my memory is terrible, and I cannot think of its title). And in a fair few other books, passages where it seemed every other word was 'said'.

This might happen with a bit such as this (made up dialogue):

Mary said, "What's that to me?"
Harry said, "So, you just don't care?"
"No," she said.
"Well, why should I care then," he said.
"Good for you," Mary said. "You've gotten there."

Part of it, IMO, is bad writing… just using the one dialogue tag, not giving the reader credit for following the speakers by the context of what's being said (which could allow dialogue tags to be omitted). And with bad writing, a wall of saids can seem to be built that stops your forward progress in a story.

But HB is right, too… it can just be the emphasis of the reader. A good reader puts the emotional emphasis in dialogue on the words that are being spoken (giving life to the characters), and the dialogue tags can feel almost an aside, an addendum to a passage that doesn't draw attention. There is a subtle de-emphasis in the speaking, say, of 'he said' (and then the tags disappear).

But when a mediocre narrator is paired with bad writing, 'said' can be so d*mn annoying.

My guess would be that authors who write primarily for Audible (and there are many, I think) are aware of such issues as the way dialogue tags are perceived, and shape their writings to avoid such problems.

Just my thoughts. Interesting thread, CC

 

[Steve Harrison]

That's interesting. Can you remember if the "saids" were de-emphasised somehow? (By being hurried over, or spoken more quietly.)

The reader read it 'as is' and although I wasn't listening out for them, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed if she'd de-emphasised them.

I tend to subscribe to @paranoid marvin's comments about them being invisible and inaudible. Hard to tell now, though, because if I listen out for them next time I'll probably find them quite noticeable.

 

[ColGray]

Just a few thoughts from an Audible addict - not sure if this is of interest.
I can't read a physical book these days because of issues with my eyes. But I have to always have a book going, so 7 days a week I have headphones on and Audible playing… on days when my wife is working I might listen for 6-7 hours.

Same in that i'm always listening (though, different reason). I basically only read via audiobook at this point and have a huge shelf on Libby and Hoopla (two library apps that are big in the US.

At a conference I recently attended I went to a breakout panel on audio, led by one of the people who founded Audible Originals. It was the smallest group of attendees in any of my breakouts and one of the best.

1. Audio is, and continues to be, the fastest growing segment in publishing. It has been this way for roughly a decade, with a slight blip in 2022.
2. Original story podcasts span ages and genres but are a growing segment. This isn't a recording of The Moth, but ongoing, pre-written stories, some with audio effects (foley) and some without.
3. Writing for audio is quickly becoming a thing, with services like Audible Originals, Realm and a bunch of others maturing from, Hey, is this an idea, to, This is our viable business.
   1. Ex: Realm previously accepted unagented submissions and closed to unagented submissions about 12 months ago

I spoke to the presenter after and we emailed a bit and some of the specifics of the format surprised me. I'm specifically referring to original audio or a conversion to audio format and not an unabridged recording of a book here

1. The page format is screenplay, not a novel. Everything is dialogue or voiced narration.
   1. Example:

Col: I am speaking! My lines are oddly indented and for some reason in Courier New!​

​

Grey: Courier New? That's crazy! Everyone knows--​

​

Col: Oh, what do you know?​

​

Grey: I know that Comic Sans is--​

​

Col: Puh-lease​

1. The author should (generally) not include audio cues
   1. Example of what not to do, The lightsabers as Vader and Obi Wan duel and the swords go PEW PEW and SCReeeeaAAACH
2. Assume 45 seconds a page
3. Episodic (30-60 minutes) is ideal
4. Look at audio plays from 100 years ago for how to show transitions, movement, action, etc. What's old is new again!

 

[AnRoinnUltra]

Audio is, and continues to be, the fastest growing segment in publishing

That makes sense. I reckon a lot of the true crime/ whodunit podcasts are veering towards pure storytelling and leaning into speculation (can't remember specific names). A couple of hours in a studio with actors and a script and there's something with a lot more meat than general chit chat -seems a logical way to go, also AI wouldn't have a cat's chance in hell of keeping pace ...might be usefull for stripping out breaths etc and make editing faster though

 

[ColGray]

That's interesting-- i hadn't thought of true crime as being one of the genres driving it, but, yeah, i could see that.

My deeply unscientific, rectally derived opinion is that there's a lot of kid storytelling podcasts and that the horror, fantasy and modern noir (e.g. X-Files) genres are thriving in this space.

Welcome to Night Vale is a great example (and one of the originals in the space driving both content and awareness with reviews in Vulture, Guardian and the NYT.

It's tongue in cheek (sometimes) stories about the odd, all set in a small desert town, written in the style of radio broadcasts (the sheriff's Secret Police issue warnings).

WELCOME TO NIGHT VALE

www.welcometonightvale.com

 

[Toby Frost]

I spoke to the presenter after and we emailed a bit and some of the specifics of the format surprised me. I'm specifically referring to original audio or a conversion to audio format and not an unabridged recording of a book here

Am I missing something, or isn't this just a radio play put on in podcast format?

 

[ColGray]

Am I missing something, or isn't this just a radio play put on in podcast format?

You're not missing anything -- that's exactly what it is.

What's old is new again!

 

[AnRoinnUltra]

Welcome to Night Vale

Great stuff, thanks -digging into it now ...they've made an incredible amount

 

[Toby Frost]

You're not missing anything -- that's exactly what it is.

A while back BBC Radio 4 did a drama series very loosely based on HP Lovecraft stories. It was presented as a podcast but originally played on the radio. I found that it didn't work very well as a radio drama but (funnily enough) was much better when listened to podcast-style. It's quite good, overall.

 

[ColGray]

A while back BBC Radio 4 did a drama series very loosely based on HP Lovecraft stories. It was presented as a podcast but originally played on the radio. I found that it didn't work very well as a radio drama but (funnily enough) was much better when listened to podcast-style. It's quite good, overall.

I tried listening to the Sandman audio play version and it just didn't snag me. Same thing for the Murderbot "Full Cast" reading--adding sound effects and other voice actors was distracting and detracting because it felt off from what I knew/how I'd read or listened in the past/how it was written and almost like i was listening to a TV show i couldn't see--they didn't change the writing enough to make up for the shift in narrative style--and that kind of drove me nuts.

That said, something like Welcome to Night Vale, which is written as an integrated audio play and experience, absolutely works.