What's the view on "bad" language

With respect and not wanting to wander in to politics there are just as many signs around saying F*** Trump conservatives don't have a monopoly on childish sign writing.
I guess it's where you live. I've never seen that. I just googled it and F biden showed up instead. But hey, why wouldn't that exist.

More to my original point - I don't want to see the F word in public in any context.
 
I don't see the point in swearing - in real life or in print - unless it's necessary. I mean, if you're going to swear all the time, what are you going to say when you're really cheesed off.

Swearing can also work quite well in comedy, again if used selectively. There is a very funny episode of Blackadder II (Money) where Lady Whiteadder is about to say a rude word at the end of the episode, but only gets to say "F.." before the screen fade. This was much funnier because it was completely unexpected.

Same with the Spanish Inquisition rushing to the Old Bailey as the credits roll. As he gets thrre, Palin says "Oh, bugger!" as the screen fades, which again would have been seen as bad language at the time. But because it was not anticipated, it added to the surprise and the humour.
 
I have had a couple of comments on my first book that the language deterred a few readers. My story is Urban Fantasy and one of the main protagonists is a young female and it seems that a few readers are expecting the read to be YA. I have the F-bomb a bit and even the C-bomb, when I felt it appropriate, but, is this limiting my audience? I could change the dialogue pretty easily without it being cheesy, I guess, but to me it reads better as is. Noone seems to mind the drug usage, reference to sex workers and people trafficking or violence. Am I over thinking it?

If you are seen as YA, then it won't be a good thing. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but worth considering.

If you aren't, then swearing is a hit and miss thing where you probably turn off a few readers but engage some others more. Can't lie, I'd love to read an urban fantasy in which people mouthed off like the people I know.

I don't see the point in swearing - in real life or in print - unless it's necessary. I mean, if you're going to swear all the time, what are you going to say when you're really cheesed off.

Same thing, only far more venomous tone...
 
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With that in mind on a parallel track, it is also what I have tried to explain to people who toss around the word slave, or consider slavery so lightly. Without elaboration or qualification, people who enslave others consider them 'things.' They are inexpensive, disposable (which is preferred over the risks of abandonment), and of no more value than a paper cup or any other possession
Back in the late 1990s I was at work and talking through a hydraulic installation with a mechanical fitter and his apprentice, this young kid was of Afro-carribean heritage and was 'tsk'ing and scowling at me.
I asked him what was the problem and then had to talk him through the fact that there really were control components named slave valves and master valves.
He looked a bit sheepish when I'd finished, this lad had genuinely thought I was trying to get a racist dig in at him
 
On another note, I'm saddened to see the word "Retarded" essentially banned from the lexicon.

by 30 years ago the term was no longer used for the developmentally challenged.

There simply is no other single word that so perfectly described when an able-bodied fully intelligent person acts without any forethought OR any thought to consequences.

"Retarded" fit that bill so perfectly. So, if anyone has an alternative term for me to use I'd love to know what it is. I'm saddened to have that hole in my language that I now need to talk around to communicate the idea.
 
He looked a bit sheepish when I'd finished, this lad had genuinely thought I was trying to get a racist dig in at him
Slave/Master is pretty basic terminology in a variety of engineering disciplines. Was this person not an engineer or technician? Were these terms not in the manuals they should have studied?
 
"Retarded" fit that bill so perfectly. So, if anyone has an alternative term for me to use I'd love to know what it is. I'm saddened to have that hole in my language that I now need to talk around to communicate the idea.
I get the impression stupid or silly is OK, perhaps because the generation that worried about using stupid/silly has died off. If we wait long enough retarded will be OK again (but, presumably developmentally challenged will be a no-no).
 
I get the impression stupid or silly is OK, perhaps because the generation that worried about using stupid/silly has died off. If we wait long enough retarded will be OK again (but, presumably developmentally challenged will be a no-no).
I do use "dumb" as a replacement but it really isn't the same.
 
Slave/Master is pretty basic terminology in a variety of engineering disciplines. Was this person not an engineer or technician? Were these terms not in the manuals they should have studied?
This was a first year mechanical apprentice, he would learn that as he progresses through his training, however he initially got 'triggered' at the terminology - I don't think I had much interaction with him after that, the guy he was shadowing finished the task and off they went to wherever.
 
Back in the late 1990s I was at work and talking through a hydraulic installation with a mechanical fitter and his apprentice, this young kid was of Afro-carribean heritage and was 'tsk'ing and scowling at me.
I asked him what was the problem and then had to talk him through the fact that there really were control components named slave valves and master valves.
He looked a bit sheepish when I'd finished, this lad had genuinely thought I was trying to get a racist dig in at him
So, you confronting him over it was great because you taught him the terms (which are still used, e.g., hard drives). Did he explain why he felt insulted at the terms? We had a home in Jamaica and used to visit particular other resorts often, and unlike many tourists, we never had a problem. Without derailing the thread much further, Jamaicans and other Caribbean nations are extremely proud of their centuries long fight against brutal slavery and colonialism. The simple history on wikipedia for Jamaica will tell you enough. That said, Jamaicans are intolerant of such a slur, though very polite. Most regularly encounter numerous racial and poverty slurs from the visitors there--who have not the courage to say the same thing back home--yet have to take it to keep their jobs.

On another note, I'm saddened to see the word "Retarded" essentially banned from the lexicon.

by 30 years ago the term was no longer used for the developmentally challenged.

There simply is no other single word that so perfectly described when an able-bodied fully intelligent person acts without any forethought OR any thought to consequences.

"Retarded" fit that bill so perfectly. So, if anyone has an alternative term for me to use I'd love to know what it is. I'm saddened to have that hole in my language that I now need to talk around to communicate the idea.
Well it's not. The ignition timing on my car might be retarded. An assembly line might be retarded to match production downstream, etc.

To call someone that might be an immediate slur toward that individual, yet the slur is there because the term implies they are quietly considered a lesser class of person; people who did not have a choice in the disabilities they have to face daily, for that matter. More than that, unlike decades past when such children were locked away from society, their protective parents face those challenges with those kids, often for life. To them it likely feels like you're indirectly attacking their children and insulting their considerable sacrifices.

For a replacement word, perhaps it's time to make use of some of that swearing. Dumb-a**, dumb-s***, and dumb-f*** come to mind. See, there is a place for curse words ;)

Past that, people IMO are a little too sensitive overall. I've had countless things yelled at me in crowds or bars with the intent of humiliating me for my race, gender, character, body, etc. many times. It has never killed me yet. Maybe I'm dumb?

K2
 
Past that, people IMO are a little too sensitive overall. I've had countless things yelled at me in crowds or bars with the intent of humiliating me for my race, gender, character, body, etc. many times. It has never killed me yet. Maybe I'm dumb?
I think the simple fact is that

  1. We are tribal and all of us engage a bit in in and out-grouping. It is good that our teachers/parents/peers/children remind us to be nice and respect each other and include each other. We really should.
  2. The calling out and shaming of people for every little word they use has actually nothing to do with #1. It is rather, itself, an exercise of power and dominance. At it's mildest it is merely an excuse to find a position where none is needed, such as the head of the department that engages in things like renaming streets and/or renaming variables in computer programs.
 
Last night I started A Touch of Frost, a crime novel by R.D. Wingfield, published in 1987. It's dated pretty badly: the abduction of a young girl is treated in a way that makes the police seem very callous and seedy (which may or may not have been the case back then, but doesn't make the police look as heroic or witty as the author would like). Also, despite the story being about hardened, cynical and slightly corrupt coppers, there's no serious swearing. It just feels wrong for a fairly modern novel to discuss serious crime but to leave out the sort of bad language that people like that would use all the time.
 
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Last night I started A Touch of Frost, a crime novel by R.D. Wingfield, published in 1987. It's dated pretty badly: the abduction of a young girl is treated in a way that makes the police seem very callous and seedy (which may or may not have been the case back then, but doesn't make the police look as heroic or witty as the author would like). Also, despite the story being about hardened, cynical and slightly corrupt coppers, there's no serious swearing. It just feels wrong for a fairly modern novel to discuss serious crime but to leave out the sort of bad language that people like that would use all the time.
Is this the original book of the tv series?
 
On another note, I'm saddened to see the word "Retarded" essentially banned from the lexicon
Probably banned because it isn't being used as a freestanding adjective but as a reference to those who suffer degraded faculties.

What we really need is to bring back "gay" as a pejorative for straight people that aren't living up to certain masculine standards. A real loss to succinct expression for pubescents of all ages.
 
Probably banned because it isn't being used as a freestanding adjective but as a reference to those who suffer degraded faculties.

What we really need is to bring back "gay" as a pejorative for straight people that aren't living up to certain masculine standards. A real loss to succinct expression for pubescents of all ages.
I cringe remembering what a little sh**head i was in high school-- but also, attending an all-male catholic high school in the 90's, calling kids gay wasn't just allowed, it was nearly encouraged. And realizing i had multiple friends who were actually gay was a moment of, WTF was i thinking and why did anyone look the other way on that??

And then i remember, Oh, right, all male catholic high school in the 90's!
 
Slave/Master is pretty basic terminology in a variety of engineering disciplines. Was this person not an engineer or technician? Were these terms not in the manuals they should have studied?
Much as Spastic is a basic term in medicine, with a very precise meaning. Context is important.
 
Probably banned because it isn't being used as a freestanding adjective but as a reference to those who suffer degraded faculties.

What we really need is to bring back "gay" as a pejorative for straight people that aren't living up to certain masculine standards. A real loss to succinct expression for pubescents of all ages.
For generations Retarded was a technical term for someone of diminished mental capacity. It was never a pejorative with regards to those of diminished intellect any more than blind is a pejorative for someone who is "unsighted." In the health industry many broad terms such as retarded and blind were replaced with new, improved technical terms that were deemed better descriptors. In mental health in particular advances helped to differentiate between specific assessment and older generalized categories such as retarded and moron. Interestingly, "moron" is still an acceptable term when referring to an able-bodied person's actions. Though "moron" is no longer used by mental health professionals as a clinical diagnosis.

And yet, for me, moronic is not interchangeable with retarded, just as it wasn't interchangeable in the heyday of use in the mental health field.
 
For generations Retarded was a technical term for someone of diminished mental capacity. It was never a pejorative with regards to those of diminished intellect any more than blind is a pejorative for someone who is "unsighted." In the health industry many broad terms such as retarded and blind were replaced with new, improved technical terms that were deemed better descriptors. In mental health in particular advances helped to differentiate between specific assessment and older generalized categories such as retarded and moron. Interestingly, "moron" is still an acceptable term when referring to an able-bodied person's actions. Though "moron" is no longer used by mental health professionals as a clinical diagnosis.

And yet, for me, moronic is not interchangeable with retarded, just as it wasn't interchangeable in the heyday of use in the mental health field.
I don't know what you're getting at. When you call someone a retard you are debasing those with actual disabilities by using the term in the pejorative. Just like my gay example.


It doesn't really matter if spastic, dumb, bitch, etc have or had legitimate uses.
 

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